Inf.Div upgrade to VG Div, Information Needed Please!

Possum · Post by **Possum** » Mon Oct 29, 2001 5:31 am

Hello All.
Over the weekend I was running multiple Computer v computer games to check out my new Barbarossa OOB.
and i noticed that some of the German Infantry divisions were transforming into VG divisions.
( As a human player I'v never played as the Germans sufficently long (mid 1944) to see this before.) Initially I'd thought that it was a hard coded slot thing, so I started taking notes. To my bewilderment 8 games later, I can see no pattern to the upgrades. I'm finding that while one or two Infantry Divisions became VG in every game,the most common was that the divisions in question only became VG Divisions one third of the time.
And I noted more than 40 divisions that upgraded at least once. I originally thought that perhaps there was an undocumented hard coded upgrade based on the slot occupied by a historically upgraded division. But a comparrison with the original OOB soon showed that many of the divisions that were becoming VG did not correspond to the original slots occupied by the historically upgraded divisions.
Finally, If it is a hard coded upgrade feature, should I bother to ensure that the divisions upgrading are the historically correct ones? (This would mean going back over the Axis Divisional data, and doing more bulk re-arranging, to align the historically upgrading divisions with the appropriate hard coded slot; and then multiple games to test that it works; About 12-24 hours work.)

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 6:07 pm

Originally posted by Possum:
Finally, If it is a hard coded upgrade feature, should I bother to ensure that the divisions upgrading are the historically correct ones? (This would mean going back over the Axis Divisional data, and doing more bulk re-arranging, to align the historically upgrading divisions with the appropriate hard coded slot; and then multiple games to test that it works; About 12-24 hours work.)

I've never noticed this before either, but you're correct. About 13 are already in the OOB, but a handful (~6) of regular infantry did convert to VG in a comp vs. comp game ran until 7-45. I'll ask Arnaud. Its also something I intend to block for my TTD scenario.

Mist · Post by **Mist** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 10:46 pm

according to my observation VG divisions appear after a certain date in OKH instead of shattered/surrendered regular infantry divisions.
At least I did not see such "upgrade" when I was playing vs computer in camp'44 until the very end of war.
though this may be wrong ... Arnaud surely knows better

[ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: Mist ]</p>

Ranger-75 · Post by **Ranger-75** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 11:35 am

I woundn't consider an Infantrie division being changed into a volksgrenadier division to be an "upgrade" <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 4:30 pm

Originally posted by Mike Santos:
I woundn't consider an Infantrie division being changed into a volksgrenadier division to be an "upgrade" <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Exactly! That's why I want to block it. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Possum, have you "caught" a conversion in the act? I mean a saved game file just before a conversion of an infantry division? If Mist is right about the origin of a VG division, ie. it appears in place of a resurrected regular infantry division, then stopping it will be much more dificult. Arnaud hasn't responded yet. If anyone has a saved game file a turn before a VG division appears in OKH (NOT one of the "normal" VG divisions that are in the OOB), I'll take that too.

Possum · Post by **Possum** » Fri Nov 02, 2001 5:16 am

unfortunately Not
However,now that I think about it, most of the regulary converting infantry divisions were from the West front HQ. so I suspect Mist is correct, and these divisions are occuring most frequently in the West front HQ because they happen to be garrisoning that HQ when it shatters. and so get elimenated en Mass....

Ranger-75 · Post by **Ranger-75** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 5:52 am

I don't know what the game program is doing, but the "re-designation" to VG division from Infantry division was done to units in thw west in 1944 ususlly when they were being re-formed after beilg pulled out from the east of during the rebuilding in Sep-Dec 1944 after the disatrous summer campaign in the west.

The 26th infantry division was such a case. It had been in action for 3 years straight in the east and it was finally pulled and sent to the west in Sep 1944, where it received a full new replenishment of its heavy weapons, etc. The soldiers of the "old 26th" resented the new VG designation, since they (rightly) considered it a slight to their capabilities. In any event, the 26th VG Div was probably the best equipped and most combat capable of all the VG divisions fielded in the west.

The game is probably trying to emulate the "re-creation" of infantry units into VG divisions as per Hitler's and OKW plans in 1944.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 7:08 am

Originally posted by Mike Santos:
The game is probably trying to emulate the "re-creation" of infantry units into VG divisions as per Hitler's and OKW plans in 1944.

Doesn't 'VG' mean "Volks Grenadier", essentially home-defense militia created with young boys and old men?

Possum · Post by **Possum** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 11:27 am

Yes it does.
The thing with history though, was that the Regular Infantry divisions that reformed in the west, where reformed as Grenadier Divisions, not Volksgrenadier divisions. Unfortunately the game doesn't have a Grenadier division class, and so such divisions come back as Volksgrenadier divisions instead.