New aircraft stats ready

Yogi Yohan · Post by **Yogi Yohan** » Tue Oct 30, 2001 9:45 pm

For some time I have been reworking the aircraft types in WIR - and finally, I'm DONE! The results of my efforts can be downloaded
here!

In the zip file comes three file segments for use with EDITWIR - aircraft (aircraft types), factory and groups (airgroups). There's also a complete standard -41 campaign (OBWIR), with the three file segments already included.

This has been quite some task. Given values vary wildly with the source, and some judgements had to be made - I have tried to choose the least extreme values. Heavy bombers have been the most troublesome, they can go incredibly far or carry incredible amounts of bombs, but not at the same time. I tried to find a middle road that felt credible in an Eastern Front setting.

The model i made for calculating the Air Combat value rewards peak performance in speed and climb rate, plus gives extra bonuses to planes with high dive speed and good low altitude performance, while penalizing multi-engine planes (for poor roll rate) and planes with a poor turn abilities. The one biplane in the game, the I-15 gets a special maneuvrability bonus (since no monoplane can turn with a biplane) but is still outclassed by all modern fighters. For bombers, the number of defensive mounts is considered more important than the acutal number of weapons (a twin mount being considering less effective than two single mounts).

Guns desrerve a special mention. IMHO the original firepower formula used in WIR underrated cannons visavi MGs, so cannon armed planes will have higher firepower now. I also vary between types - Soviet aircraft MG's are on average twice as good as German ones, but the Russian gunsights were also very poor and primitive. The US .50 is also rated somewhat higher than the German MG/131.

Enjoy!

[ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: Yogi Yohan ]

Tom1939 · Post by **Tom1939** » Tue Oct 30, 2001 10:18 pm

Great job! it did only work in the 41 campaign but maybe that's normal. The fw190A is real monster now... <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Yogi Yohan · Post by **Yogi Yohan** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:00 am

Originally posted by Tom1939:
Great job! it did only work in the 41 campaign but maybe that's normal. The fw190A is real monster now... <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

The Aircraft segment should work with any other campaign, except there won't be a Fokker factory in Helsinki, and Bucharest will produce mixed fighters instead of IAR 80. The airgroups are for 41 campaign, but even without it, the only problem should be the early arrival of one He-177 bomer group.

The Fw-190A and F are Germanys only radial engine fighters, so they are the only ones to take advantage of the low altitude bonus that most Soviet fighters (not the MiGs) get. I also find the Bf-110G to be a great bomber killer.

Mikser · Post by **Mikser** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 1:26 am

Thanks, Yogi! We love you man! I want to have your babies!
...Finally the Bf-110 excells in what it should, bringing bombers down.

Possum · Post by **Possum** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 3:16 am

Yogi, do you mind if I steal your work to include in my custom OBWIR
I too went throught and re-did the aircraft and airgroups, so I'd like to compare the results.
I actually included the following extra aircraft in My custom OOB
I-15bis, I-153 (replaces I-15),La-5 (replaces LaGG3-sh66) Yak-4, Pe-8, DB-3B, Li-2, Junkers (as used by aeroflot in 1941), IAR-80, CR-42bis (replaces mixed Ftr), Buffalo, Blenheim I, CANT Z1007bis, Ca 135 (replaces Mixed Bmbr), SM 79bis, Ta-152, He-112, Ju-86k, Ju-87B, Ju-87D, Ju-188.
I also reclassified the TB-3 and SM-81 as air transports.

Yogi Yohan · Post by **Yogi Yohan** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 3:27 am

Originally posted by Possum:
Yogi, do you mind if I steal your work to include in my custom OBWIR
I too went throught and re-did the aircraft and airgroups, so I'd like to compare the results.
I actually included the following extra aircraft in My custom OOB
I-15bis, I-153 (replaces I-15),La-5 (replaces LaGG3-sh66) Yak-4, Pe-8, DB-3B, Li-2, Junkers (as used by aeroflot in 1941), IAR-80, CR-42bis (replaces mixed Ftr), Buffalo, Blenheim I, CANT Z1007bis, Ca 135 (replaces Mixed Bmbr), SM 79bis, Ta-152, He-112, Ju-86k, Ju-87B, Ju-87D, Ju-188.
I also reclassified the TB-3 and SM-81 as air transports.

Go ahead, I made this for people to use and enjoy, so please do in any way you like. I'd like to have a look at your work as well.

I to have the IAR 80 (replacing the G-55, since it would have identical stats as the Macchi 202 anyway). I used stats the latest models of I-15 (I-153) and I-16 (type 29) when modeling these two planes, since they are so crappy anyway. I'd like to include the Ju-87D as well and have stats for it ready. I also did reclassify the B-25 and SB-2 as level bombers rather than ground attack, since the B-25C that the USSR got was not the gunship version, B-25G.

Yogi Yohan · Post by **Yogi Yohan** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 3:32 am

Originally posted by Mikser:
Thanks, Yogi! We love you man! I want to have your babies!

Eeeh... Being a married man, unless you are an incredibly beautiful and voluptuous blonde in her early twenties, mute and with no designs on child support, I think I'll pass. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">
But thanks for the praise, though! It feels good to have my work appreciated!

[ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: Yogi Yohan ]

Mikser · Post by **Mikser** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 4:05 am

Well,dead right, except for the part about me being a female, a blonde, in my twenties, and mute. Quite the opposite in fact...But take it as a compliment regardless. ;P

Tom1939 · Post by **Tom1939** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:24 pm

Strengely it only works for me in the 41 campaign... I unzipped it to my wir directory. Did I do something wrong? I would like to know the new stats for all planes. Please tell me the solution, or write down the data. Please, please, please... <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> Thank you <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Yogi Yohan · Post by **Yogi Yohan** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 2:03 pm

Ah, now I see the problem.

I only did the complete -41 campaign (OBWIR). The segements (Aircraft, Groups, Factory) are for use with EDITWIR. To have the new aircraft in other scenarios, you load that scenario file with EDITWIR, (say OBFB for the -42 campaign), then load the AIRCRAFT segment, save the complete scenario file and voila, you have the new aircraft in the new scenario. I put this in as an interim solution while I redid the other campaigns.

But have no fear, I'll post them here as soon as I have done them all. I'll include a textfile with the complete new stats too.

[ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: Yogi Yohan ]

Tom1939 · Post by **Tom1939** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 2:44 pm

Great! Thank you very much!

Yogi Yohan · Post by **Yogi Yohan** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 3:00 pm

OK, here it is: all four campaign scenarios with the new aircraft plus a textfile with all the stats.

Please let me know any comments you might have, this has been calculated from real data but not tested for play balance, so that could be an issue.

Any new improvements/changes will be posted at the same URL.

[ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: Yogi Yohan ]

Tom1939 · Post by **Tom1939** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 3:56 pm

Hi!

Great work! I have one suggestion: this might be historical but fw190A, he177, and me262A is even more brutal... He177 with 50 range? I could bomb every airfield deep behind enemy lines... The enemy could only defend with a lot of fighters on defence and much less training... I would ask Rick if he wants to use this stats in our game <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Yogi Yohan · Post by **Yogi Yohan** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 6:13 pm

Originally posted by Tom1939:
Hi!

Great work! I have one suggestion: this might be historical but fw190A, he177, and me262A is even more brutal... He177 with 50 range? I could bomb every airfield deep behind enemy lines... The enemy could only defend with a lot of fighters on defence and much less training... I would ask Rick if he wants to use this stats in our game <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

You can bomb pretty much every HQ in the Soviet union with a Ju-88 once you reach Smolensk or so.
Regarding, He-177 range, actually, its not historical. The He-177 had much LONGER maximum range. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> The He-177 was a strategic heavy bomber, comparable to the B-17 or B-29. It should be able to reach everything on the map, just not with the brutal payload it had before (128 or so). On the other hand, the He-177 is not available before late october of 1943 now (to much technical problems before). At that time the Soviets should have some high firepower fighter-bombers that will blow the He-177 out of the sky if unescorted.

The increases in firepower are not uniqe to Fw-190 and Me-262. Before, firepower ranged from 1-20, now from 1-30. This is because the original firepower formula was (roughly) 1 per LMG, 2 per HMG, 3 per 20mm and 4 per 30mm.

To my mind this is all wrong. I did some math (muzzle power, weight per second etc) and found that the scale 1-2-4-6 is much more credible.

As an example, the Germans determined that it took 20 hits with a 20mm cannon and only 3 hits with a 30mm cannon to bring down an B-17. It was harder to hit with a 30mm though, which is why I'm leaving it at firepower 6. (Except the Mk103, which has 7).

[ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: Yogi Yohan ]

Yogi Yohan · Post by **Yogi Yohan** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 6:39 pm

Regarding airfield bombing - WIR makes it far to easy to spot enemy airgroups. Historically, Soviet airfields were very hard to spot, and the Soviets had so poor navigational equipment (and skills) that they mostly flew short missions.

In a game I played against Harry recently, we had the House Rule that any HQ's in or adjacent to Kazan were considered as being in Siberia, and could not attack or be attacked.

Another good house rule could be that airfield attacks beyond escort range are not permitted after 1941, simply because the airfields could not be located. Strategic attacks should be OK though.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 8:49 pm

Short correction: It was considered as behind the "Ural" not Siberia. And the russian side is not allowed to launch airattackt from these HQs.
I think this house rule is necessary. The russian airforce is so weak, that you can bomb the HQs without escorting the Ju88. The russian player find no save place for his airgroups to rest and buildup without this rule.