CHS Pending Change List

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

ok if u guys think so.

then
u might as well remove the same radar from the Oi as well. I did not see this in the list.

We're removing it from the class and then refreshing both ships - that should do it.

[Don Bowen]

Here are some additional changes from Mike, including the much-desired Kate. Note that the movement of the two Japanese land units is still under consideration in the context of a larger adjustment.

Classes:
Nevada (Class 177): Change Fuel to 4080, change Endurance to 9000
Pennsylvania (Class 178): Change Fuel to 4000
New Mexico (Class 179): Change Fuel to 4600, Change Endurance to 12500
Tennessee (Class 180): Change Endurance to 12500
Colorado (Class 181): Change Fuel to 4700, Change Endurance to 12750
Richelieu (Class 182): Change Endurance to 8000
King George V (Class 183): Change Endurance to 14000
West Virginia (Class 205): Change Fuel to 4700, Change Endurance to 12500
Ceres (Class 214): Change Weapon#2 (amidships 6in) to Number 1 (was 2).
Caledon (Class 234): Change Weapon#1 (forward 6in) to number 2 (was 1), Change Weapon#2 (amidships 6in) to 1 (was 2)
Capetown (Class 235): Convert to CL
Oklahoma (Class 236): Change Fuel to 4080, Change Endurance to 9000



Based on the Class changes, some ships need to be "refreshed":
Maryland (Ship 3145): Refresh from Class
Colorado (Ship 3146): Refresh from Class
West Virginia (Ship 3147): Refresh from Class
Nevada (Ship 3148): Refresh from Class
Oklahoma (Ship 3149): Refresh from Class
Arizona (Ship 3150): Refresh from Class
Pennsylvania (Ship 3151): Refresh from Class
Idaho (Ship 3154): Refresh from Class
New Mexico (Ship 3155): Refresh from Class
Mississippi (Ship 3156): Refresh from Class
Caledon (Ship 3248): Refresh from Class
Caradoc (Ship 3249): Refresh from Class
Ceres (Ship 3250): Refresh from Class
Capetown (Ship 3251): Refresh from Class
Columbo (Ship 3252): Refresh from Class


Aircraft:
A5M4 Claude (Aircraft 001): Change Manuever to 31
A6M2N Rufe (Aircraft 002): Change Manuever to 30
N1K Rex (Aircraft 008): Change Manuever to 31
D3A2 Val (Aircraft 016): Change Endurance to 320
B5N2 Kate (Aircraft 021): Change Cruise Speed to 171, Change Endurance to 340
E8N Dave (Aircraft 042): Change Max Altitude to 19850, Change Maneuver to 24, Change durability to 26, Change
upgrade to Pete (043)
F1M2 Pete (Aircraft 043): Change Max ALtitude to 20970, Change Cruise Speed to 130, Change Maneuver to 26, Change
Endurance to 360, Change Durability to 25
E13A1 Jake (Aircraft 044): Change Cruise Speed to 150, Change Endurance to 600, Change Durability to 27
E7K2 Alf (Aircraft 045): Change Maneuver to 22
Ki-27 Nate (Aircraft 047): Change Max Speed to 292, Change Manuever to 33
Ki-45 KAIb Nick (Aircraft 052): Change Availability to 12/42
Ki-45 KAIc Nick (Aircraft 053): Change Availability to 2/43
L2D2 Tabby (Aircraft 060): Change Cruise Speed to 165
Ki-46-II Dinah (Aircraft 069): Change Endurance to 380
Buffalo I (Aircraft 125): Change Maneuver to 29
P-38F Lightning (Aircraft 203): Change Weapon1 to 20mm Hispano N Can (167), Change Weapon2 to .50 Browning Nose MG (160)
F2A-3 Buffalo (Aircraft 247): Change Maneuver to 29


Airgroups:
49th Fighter (Airgroup 987): Refresh from aircraft
48th Fighter (Airgroup 986): Refresh from aircraft
331st Fighter (Airgroup 1021): Refresh from aircraft
330th Fighter (Airgroup 1020): Refresh from aircraft
332nd Fighter (Airgroup 1022): Refresh from aircraft



Land units:
Japanese 2nd Division (Location 1433): Change location to Kanazawa (Base 221)
Japanese 33rd Division (Location 1415): Change location to Shanghai (Base 384).

[Lemurs!]

Don,

This was probably a mistype but just in case, the Nate, Ki27 should be changed to a 32 mnvr not 33.

Mike

[Don Bowen]

Here is what I hope will be the final set of Device changes:

13.2mm Type 93 AAMG (Device 070): Reduce Penetration to 8.
0.5in Browning M2 MG (Device 075): Reduce Penetration to 9.
1000lb AP (Device 198): New Device Added
2000lb AP (Device 210): New Device Added
500 kg AP Bomb (Device 210): Move to slot 214 to make room for device changes in V1.5
ANZAC Infantry Squad (Device 334): Adjust Build Rate to 40
ANZAC Infantry Squad (Device 335): Adjust Build Rate to 40
ANZAC Infantry Squad (Device 336): Adjust Build Rate to 40
ANZAC Infantry Squad (Device 337): Adjust Build Rate to 40
Aus Independent Sec (Device 345): Delete (was unused) and replace with below.
Canadian Rifle Squad (Device 345): New device
British Rifle Squad (Device 346): Adjust Build Rate to 25
British Rifle Squad (Device 347): Adjust Build Rate to 25
Canadian Rifle Squad (Device 352): New device
Indian Rifle Squad (Device 353): Adjust Build Rate to 80
Indian Rifle Squad (Device 354): Adjust Build Rate to 80
Gurkha Squad (Device 359): Adjust Build Rate to 4
CW Rifle Squad (Device 360): Adjust Build Rate to 20
Canadian Engr Squad (Device 362): New device
PA Rifle Squad (Device 363): Adjust Build Rate to 25
PS Rifle Squad (Device 364): Adjust Build Rate to 3
PS Cavalry Squad (Device 365): Adjust Build Rate to 3
KV-1 Heavy Tank (Device 499): Delete and replace with Bren Carrier (532)
4in CD Gun (Device 515): Trade positions with Stuart I Light Tank (Device 535). 4in CD Gun has a zero replacement rate.
3in CD Gun (Device 517): Trade positions with M3 Stuart Light Tank (Device 540). 3in CD Gun has a zero replacement rate.
Fortifications (Device 527): New device - 9999 load cost and no offensive weapons - an immobilizer.
Bren Carrier (Device 532): Move to slot 499 (replacing KV-1 Heavy Tank)
Alvis Armored Car (Device 533): Set upgrade to itself (no upgrade).
M8 Armored Car (Device 534): Delete, never got around to using.
Stuart I Light Tank (Device 535): Move to 515.
M3 Stuart Light Tank (Device 540): Move to 517.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

Don,

This was probably a mistype but just in case, the Nate, Ki27 should be changed to a 32 mnvr not 33.

Mike

OK - Fixed. Could have been a type-o or a stupid-o. Either way, with the amount of data I'm handling I'll glad people are double checking me.

Don

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


Here is what I hope will be the final set of Device changes:

13.2mm Type 93 AAMG (Device 070): Reduce Penetration to 8.
0.5in Browning M2 MG (Device 075): Reduce Penetration to 9.
1000lb AP (Device 198): New Device Added
2000lb AP (Device 210): New Device Added
500 kg AP Bomb (Device 210): Move to slot 214 to make room for device changes in V1.5
ANZAC Infantry Squad (Device 334): Adjust Build Rate to 40
ANZAC Infantry Squad (Device 335): Adjust Build Rate to 40
ANZAC Infantry Squad (Device 336): Adjust Build Rate to 40
ANZAC Infantry Squad (Device 337): Adjust Build Rate to 40
Aus Independent Sec (Device 345): Delete (was unused) and replace with below.
Canadian Rifle Squad (Device 345): New device
British Rifle Squad (Device 346): Adjust Build Rate to 25
British Rifle Squad (Device 347): Adjust Build Rate to 25
Canadian Rifle Squad (Device 352): New device
Indian Rifle Squad (Device 353): Adjust Build Rate to 80
Indian Rifle Squad (Device 354): Adjust Build Rate to 80
Gurkha Squad (Device 359): Adjust Build Rate to 4
CW Rifle Squad (Device 360): Adjust Build Rate to 20
Canadian Engr Squad (Device 362): New device
PA Rifle Squad (Device 363): Adjust Build Rate to 25
PS Rifle Squad (Device 364): Adjust Build Rate to 3
PS Cavalry Squad (Device 365): Adjust Build Rate to 3
KV-1 Heavy Tank (Device 499): Delete and replace with Bren Carrier (532)
4in CD Gun (Device 515): Trade positions with Stuart I Light Tank (Device 535). 4in CD Gun has a zero replacement rate.
3in CD Gun (Device 517): Trade positions with M3 Stuart Light Tank (Device 540). 3in CD Gun has a zero replacement rate.
Fortifications (Device 527): New device - 9999 load cost and no offensive weapons - an immobilizer.
Bren Carrier (Device 532): Move to slot 499 (replacing KV-1 Heavy Tank)
Alvis Armored Car (Device 533): Set upgrade to itself (no upgrade).
M8 Armored Car (Device 534): Delete, never got around to using.
Stuart I Light Tank (Device 535): Move to 515.
M3 Stuart Light Tank (Device 540): Move to 517.

I would recommend changing these two devices that Pry fixed in his scenario as well:

Device Changes
Japanese

Dropped the 47mm AT gun load cost to 6 from 7 (Air transportable)

(otherwise the jap paratroops jump without there guns)


Device 139 Type 13 radar changed to air search

(was naval is supposed to be air)

[Lemurs!]

The Japanese paratroopers did not use the 37 or 47 mm AT guns historically so they are not in the CHS, so the weight of a 47mm is a moot point.

Actually, the gun could not be air dropped but it could be brought in on gliders. The gliders are unfortunately not modelled but Japan did use some.

Mike

[Don Bowen]

Tanaka, Pry:

I've gone ahead and added the two devices to the list. Didn't want to be divisive.

[Don Bowen]

Here is the "Final" CHS Pending Change List for the V.15 update. It is final in that all items that were intended to be addressed in this update have been addressed. It is not really final as I am sure it includes a number of type-o's and think-o's. Thanks to the many people who have contributed input this list, either directly or by releasing their own scenarios with change lists!

Please note that there are a number of other items that can not possibly be addressed in the time frame of this update or that are in progress as long-term projects by CHS contributors:

• complete fuel/supply/oil/resource study and rework
• full review of Chinese Army
• Map adjustments
• probable additional changes to AP/AK/TK capacity
• anything having to do with the Soviet forces
• some more that I don't recall just now

Note also that some of the changes have intentionally been set between the values of similar changes or recommended changes by multiple individuals. Only extensive game play can pinpoint the correct values.

This list represents a bunch of work and I would be very grateful for anyone that poured through it and reported any errors or problems.

[ltfightr]

Not to but in but did it ever get decided if you can have a neg base value at start? -2/0 -3/0

[Tristanjohn]

Well, I'll ask you as Pry won't reply.

What is the rationale for bucking up Japanese pilot replacements so much? This hasn't been tested, and the only feedback I've heard from the forums is that Japanese players are upset that they run out of good pilots. Well, they're supposed to run out of good pilots, aren't they? And the more they use their air assets the faster they will, of course.

Anyway, this represents a significant jump over the stock scenarios. Is it the concerted opinion of the CHS team that the Japanese don't have an historical amount of "trained" pilots? And again, if so (that would appear to be the case), what is this opinion based on?

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn

Well, I'll ask you as Pry won't reply.

What is the rationale for bucking up Japanese pilot replacements so much? This hasn't been tested, and the only feedback I've heard from the forums is that Japanese players are upset that they run out of good pilots. Well, they're supposed to run out of good pilots, aren't they? And the more they use their air assets the faster they will, of course.

Anyway, this represents a significant jump over the stock scenarios. Is it the concerted opinion of the CHS team that the Japanese don't have an historical amount of "trained" pilots? And again, if so (that would appear to be the case), what is this opinion based on?

I was wondering if someone would ask this ...

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn

Well, I'll ask you as Pry won't reply.

What is the rationale for bucking up Japanese pilot replacements so much? This hasn't been tested, and the only feedback I've heard from the forums is that Japanese players are upset that they run out of good pilots. Well, they're supposed to run out of good pilots, aren't they? And the more they use their air assets the faster they will, of course.

Anyway, this represents a significant jump over the stock scenarios. Is it the concerted opinion of the CHS team that the Japanese don't have an historical amount of "trained" pilots? And again, if so (that would appear to be the case), what is this opinion based on?

Nope - I noted it in Pry's change list, asked one or two people whose opinion I value, and decided on the changes in the list. This is not an area of my expertise so I am easily swayed. Differences of opinion with attached logical reasoning appreciated.

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn

Well, I'll ask you as Pry won't reply.

What is the rationale for bucking up Japanese pilot replacements so much? This hasn't been tested, and the only feedback I've heard from the forums is that Japanese players are upset that they run out of good pilots. Well, they're supposed to run out of good pilots, aren't they? And the more they use their air assets the faster they will, of course.

Anyway, this represents a significant jump over the stock scenarios. Is it the concerted opinion of the CHS team that the Japanese don't have an historical amount of "trained" pilots? And again, if so (that would appear to be the case), what is this opinion based on?

Nope - I noted it in Pry's change list, asked one or two people whose opinion I value, and decided on the changes in the list. This is not an area of my expertise so I am easily swayed. Differences of opinion with attached logical reasoning appreciated.

Well obvious course of action for CHS team ( ... H=Historical !!! ) is to research the actual IJN Pilot training and figure out what number to stick in here based on that ... one problem is we only get to use 1 number for the entire war ... and while I think I recall the pre-war number was somewhere around 100-200 ( supporting the original 10 per month figure ) ... I'm sure that later it went up some ... but if we've already done this research then whoever did it can just respond with the data .... and I'm sure that would answer Tris' query ...

[Bradley7735]

Hi Don,

I skimmed through your list and here is what I've spotted as possible issues:

2000lb AP (Device 210): New Device Added (I haven't looked, but isn't this a GP bomb?)

Long (Ship 4375): Change delay to 411207 and assign to Task Force 3909 (I think delay should be 411206, otherwise, it appears after the end of the turn (in a TF))

Ryojun Base Force (Location 1074): Set airfield to 0. (not sure why a bf would have an airfield value)
Canton Base Force (Location 1204): Set airfield to 0 (not sure why a bf would have an airfield value)

Hong Kong Fort (Location 2375): Adjusted Infantry component to represent 2 British battalions, 2 Indian battalions, 2 Canadian Battalions and 3 Commonwealth Battalions (may not do this, tad detailed don't you think??). (I think if you model USS Wake with 49 sys damage, then this isn't too detailed. Adds flavor imo)

26th PS Cavalry (location 2632): Change Nationality to US Army
45th PS RCT (Location 2644): Change Nationality to US Army
57th PS RCT (Location 2645): Change Nationality to US Army (changing to US increases VP for Japan player. Not sure if the devices are US personnel or not)

Chandpur Naval Base Force (Location 3477): add 54 Indian Rifle Squads (Device 353)
Diamond Harbor Base Force (Location 3478): add 54 Indian Rifle Squads (Device 353)
Karachi Naval Base Force (Location 3479): add 54 Indian Rifle Squads (Device 353)
Bombay Naval Base Force (Location 3480): add 54 Indian Rifle Squads (Device 353)
Madras Naval Base Force (Location 3481): add 54 Indian Rifle Squads (Device 353)
Panaji Naval Base Force (Location 3482): add 54 Indian Rifle Squads (Device 353) (do you want to immobilize these units too?)

Change Japanese Army Pilot Replacement Rate to 30.
Change Japanese Navy Pilot Replacement Rate to 30. (stock version has this at 20 and 10. You might want to lower the navy rate to 20. I think these rates are better used vs the AI, but vs a human, they may be too high)

Ok, that's all I've noticed. I think the only possible typo is the Long delay date. All other stuff is just my opinion or my just pointing it out, in case of an error. You don't need to explain any logic if it is correct as is.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

Hi Don,

I skimmed through your list and here is what I've spotted as possible issues:

2000lb AP (Device 210): New Device Added (I haven't looked, but isn't this a GP bomb?)

Yup, sure is. Not really an issue though as I will not re-type these values into the database - just copy the entries from the Updated Scenario.

Long (Ship 4375): Change delay to 411207 and assign to Task Force 3909 (I think delay should be 411206, otherwise, it appears after the end of the turn (in a TF))

Good Catch, will fix!

Ryojun Base Force (Location 1074): Set airfield to 0. (not sure why a bf would have an airfield value)
Canton Base Force (Location 1204): Set airfield to 0 (not sure why a bf would have an airfield value)

The port and airfield values for a land unit are "double used" to indicate a pre-set change of HQ. Port contains number of months and airfield the new HQ. Both these items had an invalid value set in Port/Airfield: port 0 and airfield 1 which indicated an immediate transfer to HQ 1 (which don't exist). This change fixes that.

Hong Kong Fort (Location 2375): Adjusted Infantry component to represent 2 British battalions, 2 Indian battalions, 2 Canadian Battalions and 3 Commonwealth Battalions (may not do this, tad detailed don't you think??). (I think if you model USS Wake with 49 sys damage, then this isn't too detailed. Adds flavor imo)

May not actually do this as it will run the number of weapons near the maximum and may mess up the displays. Just an idea!

26th PS Cavalry (location 2632): Change Nationality to US Army
45th PS RCT (Location 2644): Change Nationality to US Army
57th PS RCT (Location 2645): Change Nationality to US Army (changing to US increases VP for Japan player. Not sure if the devices are US personnel or not)

Historically these were Regiments of the U.S. Regular Army.

Chandpur Naval Base Force (Location 3477): add 54 Indian Rifle Squads (Device 353)
Diamond Harbor Base Force (Location 3478): add 54 Indian Rifle Squads (Device 353)
Karachi Naval Base Force (Location 3479): add 54 Indian Rifle Squads (Device 353)
Bombay Naval Base Force (Location 3480): add 54 Indian Rifle Squads (Device 353)
Madras Naval Base Force (Location 3481): add 54 Indian Rifle Squads (Device 353)
Panaji Naval Base Force (Location 3482): add 54 Indian Rifle Squads (Device 353) (do you want to immobilize these units too?)

Already immobilized by a 9.2in gun in Weapon Slot 1.

Change Japanese Army Pilot Replacement Rate to 30.
Change Japanese Navy Pilot Replacement Rate to 30. (stock version has this at 20 and 10. You might want to lower the navy rate to 20. I think these rates are better used vs the AI, but vs a human, they may be too high)

There is a type-o (or actually a copy-o). The value for naval pilots should be 15

Ok, that's all I've noticed. I think the only possible typo is the Long delay date. All other stuff is just my opinion or my just pointing it out, in case of an error. You don't need to explain any logic if it is correct as is.

Thanks for your input - it's always appreciated.

By the way - I am going to take a day off due to a stiff neck (too much time in front of my personal confuser). Then I'll review all comments, finalized the list, and start making the changes. I am planning on a Friday release to help ruin your weekend but time is short and I may have to delay it.

Don




[/quote]

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

Change Japanese Army Pilot Replacement Rate to 30.
Change Japanese Navy Pilot Replacement Rate to 30. (stock version has this at 20 and 10. You might want to lower the navy rate to 20. I think these rates are better used vs the AI, but vs a human, they may be too high)

Yep I would go 30 Army/20 Navy here at the most. The Japanese Army had more pilots than the Navy but the Navy's pilots were much better trained and experienced. The stock scenario is 20/10. Pry did 35/25. Really as Frag says it should be zero because we are supposed to train our own pilots. These are just a free bonus. Japan trained around 100 pilots a year early on...

[Tanaka]

error

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

Change Japanese Army Pilot Replacement Rate to 30.
Change Japanese Navy Pilot Replacement Rate to 30. (stock version has this at 20 and 10. You might want to lower the navy rate to 20. I think these rates are better used vs the AI, but vs a human, they may be too high)

Yep I would go 30 Army/20 Navy here at the most. The Japanese Army had more pilots than the Navy but the Navy's pilots were much better trained and experienced. The stock scenario is 20/10. Pry did 35/25. Really as Frag says it should be zero because we are supposed to train our own pilots. These are just a free bonus. Japan trained around 100 pilots a year early on...

Sorry - the 30 value for the Japanese Navy Pilots is an error (Cntl-C/Cntl-V of "Replacement Rate to" and also got "30").

Should be 15.

[Tristanjohn]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

Change Japanese Army Pilot Replacement Rate to 30.
Change Japanese Navy Pilot Replacement Rate to 30. (stock version has this at 20 and 10. You might want to lower the navy rate to 20. I think these rates are better used vs the AI, but vs a human, they may be too high)

Yep I would go 30 Army/20 Navy here at the most. The Japanese Army had more pilots than the Navy but the Navy's pilots were much better trained and experienced. The stock scenario is 20/10. Pry did 35/25. Really as Frag says it should be zero because we are supposed to train our own pilots. These are just a free bonus. Japan trained around 100 pilots a year early on...

Sorry - the 30 value for the Japanese Navy Pilots is an error (Cntl-C/Cntl-V of "Replacement Rate to" and also got "30").

Should be 15.

To answer Joe: as far as I know the flight-training took a hit as the war went along. For sure and for certain it did not go up.

Don: you're always free to do whatever you want, I guess. This is your project, not mine. I'm only happy to see the number of "trained" Japanese Navy pilots limited to 15 and not 30!

Please keep in mind that this was yet another request from players who wish like nothing else for the Japanese side to run as fast as possible. These special pilot pools (extant in stock scenarios) have little to do with history. The original design intent of Gary, who is famous for figuring up new and exotic Japanese bonuses, was to not include these pilot pools. These were included afterward, and can only be thought of as an extra.

I'm not about to try and research this down to the nth Japanese pilot trainee, but really, installing this sort of stuff into the CHS with no more to go on than "someone's word I respect" strikes me as a stretch. I mean, whatever happened to the debate and consensus opinion which was required not to long ago when I suggested, somewhat out of the blue, and Lord knows what possessed me that day, that Noumea ought not to be modeled as some kind of South Pacific version of Boston Harbor, or that Guadacanal doesn't, didn't and never could have a "port" off Lunga Point the size of Milwaukee?

I mean, if stuff as obvious as that needs debate and a consensus before action is taken, but meanwhile the Japanese pilot pools, an admitted game aberation, get beefed up with hardly any input and no discussion at all, then exactly where is this project headed?