true story about US Navy

Muzrub · Post by **Muzrub** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:10 pm

Unfortunately, some individials gave in to the temptation to use this thread as cover for a few cheap shots at the US.

Who are these individuals.

As for the US Ed- The USA firmly places itself in the public (international) arena and as such its going to recieve criticism and at times praise.

I for one have watched over the last 10 years Australian culture suffer at the hands American companies and popular 'American' culture.
This 'friendly' invasion has created anti US sentiment here and over seas- of course non violent (in Asutralia). Our countries have a very good relationship as do the vast majority of people from both of our nations.

Nobody here is attacking you or any other hard working 'average' American. But the attitude of American business and at times its government is another issue or is it really the issue at hand?

I dont have a problem with Americans who believe in their way of life or in the idea that is democracy. But the United States is not the only nation to have such feelings about their country. We here across the other side of the globe or in other nations feel the same about our lands.
But we do not package it, slap a label on it and ship it out across the world as the only way of life.

You can take this as a flame post if you wish- but its not. How you reply, if you bother is entirely up to you Ed.

Now time for a joke:

Q. How can you tell if your sperm count is high?

A. If your missus has to chew before swallowing.

Hope you enjoyed it........cya

czerpak · Post by **czerpak** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 5:10 pm

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:

I understand. Perhaps its because I've seen too many eerily similar rants elsewhere. Perhaps because the US is the #1 target for almost all anti-country rants on the internet, this gives you the impression Americans respond too seriously, when in reality we all just got tired of the incessent, never-ending attacks and lost any tolerence we may have had. I don't know. I'm probably not as bad as you think, for one thing, the original rant was not what prompted my last response, my first reply was just to point out this probably wasn't a good place for it, it was the following reply that compelled me to respond directly. Something else, there is a German here who I originally encountered in a mini-flamewar in AOW after certain comments were made, who is now my best long-distance friend, and with whom I've been regularly communicating with for nearly a year, often more than 1 email a week. No subject is off limits, and so far I haven't threatened him with physical violence .... although there may have been a few vague remarks about banishing him from my address book early on , and he's brought up with some anti-US stuff that would knock Loki's socks off. In truth, I'm probably more tolerent now than I was a year ago thanks to him.

We will have to respectfully disagree on the joke issue. Any "joke" with "The west has a long history of really stupid acts" for example, without a smiley, or any text nearby to steer this sentence towards humor or put it in a humorous context, simply does not make sense in a joke truly meant to be funny. Its obviously there to state an opinion ... eh ... in my opinion.

[ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: Ed Cogburn ]

1. USA is the #1 target because is biggest in many means. There was in ancient Rome a small story with conclusion : If you cant have something make it seem worthless.
2. Cant find anywhere in my posts statement calling you bad. I cant call you bad or good since I dont know you, right ?
I can only say something about your opinions which you give in posts and I think you are competent and helpfull expert on WiR, but sometimes overreacting on others opinions, thats all. And there maybe number of reasons (e.g. personall experience ) why you acting like this, but thats none of my bussiness.
BTW my opinion about yourselve is probably irrelevant for you, which is correct.
3. Tolerance is something we lack in general in nowadays world. And intolerance is something I hate most.
4. Have no problem with dissagreeing with me on any issue,Ed, as long as we keep discusion to arguments, not invectives. One of the reason I sometimes post offtopic messages here, not in AoW forum is I found AoW full of invectives instead of arguments.
5. Sometimes physical violence helps in discussion <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Maciej

czerpak · Post by **czerpak** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 5:14 pm

Originally posted by Muzrub:

I for one have watched over the last 10 years Australian culture suffer at the hands American companies and popular 'American' culture.

Muzrub,
might be cause people want to buy it, dont you think ?

Muzrub · Post by **Muzrub** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 5:43 pm

might be cause people want to buy it, dont you think ?

One could say that.
Its hard not too when American companies buy Australian companies- who cant compete with large multi-nationals and then change the brand to keep inline with the parent company in the states.

I believe it is very sad to see a young kid with a 'Chicago Bulls' singlet on while also sporting an 'Ice T' cap (turned backwards of course).
Once again I dont blame the ordainary US citizen but the multi-nationals (industry-music) in perpetuating the myth of America is better.

I wish not to live in a McDonaldanised version of the world and I hope others feel the same.
There are some towns in Queensland who are fighting to keep Macdonalds out of their towns right now! Whether the American public realises or takes pride in this 'friendly expansion' makes no difference to me, they will defend Americas rights to export itself.

But we in other countries have the right to argue back or to bring these issues to the attention of US companies-govs and if need be citizens.
If world democracy is Americas goal- then I second that motion and I am acting on it NOW in good faith.

BTW czerpak- did you like the joke?

czerpak · Post by **czerpak** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 7:37 pm

Originally posted by Muzrub:

BTW czerpak- did you like the joke?

Yes, I did <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
I am a salesman for my whole live (means not that long being 31), now a bit higher position, being selfemployed consultant, and worked with people from diferent parts of the world. And I'm telling you - Americans are the best salesmen I ever met. They are crap as managers, but again they sale themselves well.
IMHO thats the main reason of whats happening now.
And with large corporations -you cant really say who they are (I mean if they are American, Japanese or Russian). But they have one thing in common - love money and sell what people want to buy. Problem is why people want to buy it ? But lets leave it uncomented - thats not a place for such long discussion.
Maciej

P.S. biggest polish bank, proud of national banking industry is now 100 % owned by Italians and most people dont even noticed that. And they bought small bank in Ukraine and there are rumors now about polish capital being agressive there.

Lokioftheaesir · Post by **Lokioftheaesir** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 8:22 pm

RickyB · Post by **RickyB** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 10:50 pm

Originally posted by Muzrub:
might be cause people want to buy it, dont you think ?

One could say that.
Its hard not too when American companies buy Australian companies- who cant compete with large multi-nationals and then change the brand to keep inline with the parent company in the states.

I believe it is very sad to see a young kid with a 'Chicago Bulls' singlet on while also sporting an 'Ice T' cap (turned backwards of course).
Once again I dont blame the ordainary US citizen but the multi-nationals (industry-music) in perpetuating the myth of America is better.

I wish not to live in a McDonaldanised version of the world and I hope others feel the same.
There are some towns in Queensland who are fighting to keep Macdonalds out of their towns right now! Whether the American public realises or takes pride in this 'friendly expansion' makes no difference to me, they will defend Americas rights to export itself.

But we in other countries have the right to argue back or to bring these issues to the attention of US companies-govs and if need be citizens.
If world democracy is Americas goal- then I second that motion and I am acting on it NOW in good faith.

BTW czerpak- did you like the joke?

A lot of good points. The question is how surprised would you all be to hear that a lot of the same comments are made on the SAME issues here? Keep WalMart out (the biggest retailer in the US and growing), no McDonalds in our town, etc. It is an issue of big corporations as you say, more so than any policies or anything.

I think a large portion comes from "our" companies trying to sell what they can, and those are more of these cultural icons that many people throughout the world dislike, not just outside the US, but others like enough to make it worthwhile. We sure can't sell much else, which is why you look at the balance of trade, and Americans buy a lot more from outside the US than others buy from the US. This isn't totally true, but still it is how things are overall.

I guess if we didn't push our McDonalds on you all, we wouldn't have any money to buy everything material that we have to have

. I know in my family it is our son that is prime McDonalds target audience, and drives most of our business there - I won't eat it anymore unless I am desparate, but he loves it <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> .

RickyB · Post by **RickyB** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 10:53 pm

BTW, I forgot my joke for you all.

Who is the most popular guy at the nudest colony?

The one who can carry a cup of coffee in each hand, and a dozen donuts <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Who is the most popular woman in the nudest colony?

The one who can eat the last donut <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Muzrub · Post by **Muzrub** » Wed Dec 19, 2001 5:26 pm

A lot of good points. The question is how surprised would you all be to hear that a lot of the same comments are made on the SAME issues here? Keep WalMart out (the biggest retailer in the US and growing), no McDonalds in our town, etc. It is an issue of big corporations as you say, more so than any policies or anything.
I think a large portion comes from "our" companies trying to sell what they can, and those are more of these cultural icons that many people throughout the world dislike, not just outside the US, but others like enough to make it worthwhile. We sure can't sell much else, which is why you look at the balance of trade, and Americans buy a lot more from outside the US than others buy from the US. This isn't totally true, but still it is how things are overall.

I guess if we didn't push our McDonalds on you all, we wouldn't have any money to buy everything material that we have to have . I know in my family it is our son that is prime McDonalds target audience, and drives most of our business there - I won't eat it anymore unless I am desparate, but he loves it .

Good solid post Rick.
People are not the problem- its the companies.

Australia and the US have other issues ie agriculture. Which is a battle of subsidiesed US farmers V's non-subsidiesed Aussie ones. But thats another issue and one I do ot wish to pursue.

Ed, you should know and others should know- this forum is not for carrying on like a child, not like the Art of War forum.
I dont mind others posting about different things here........its fine with me, we all play above board. If one does not we 'all' will sort him out.

BTW Rick good joke- my girlfriend read it and found it rather funny as well.

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Wed Dec 19, 2001 6:03 pm

Greetings, I didn't mean any offense. This is a Grognard website so to improve the joke I made a few suggestions. Have to get rid of the obvious blunders. As for ships with CBDR (constant bearing decreasing range{collision course} there is a standing set of rules known as 'Rules of the road' which defines which ship must change course and what direction it will turn. (can you tell I spent 10 years in the Navy? I have more Navy jokes then anyone if it comes down to that) So you should change it from ship captains to a juniour officer of the deck who is new to bridge watch. (have it late at night and both captains asleep with the JOD afraid to wake them.
The first ship I was on, when ever a Soviet ship was close by used to place porno mags in plastic bags and throw over the side. The Soviets always fished our trash out (we never threw real trash over while they were there.)
We also had a Soviet captain chew us out over something wrong in a flag signal addressed to him. so our Captain staged a firing squad of the signalmen on the helo deck for them.
We played several games of chess by radio with a Soviet ship (bad idea) and blared music at each other.

varjager · Post by **varjager** » Wed Dec 19, 2001 6:06 pm

<img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> My girlfriend like it as well.Well it is soon time to stop working for the day and time to get back in to the action! Pbem rules!

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Wed Dec 19, 2001 7:24 pm

Originally posted by Muzrub:
Australia and the US have other issues ie agriculture. Which is a battle of subsidiesed US farmers V's non-subsidiesed Aussie ones. But thats another issue and one I do ot wish to pursue.

I love that tactic! Bring it up out of the blue, state your position, then claim you don't want to pursue it. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> Ok, you're somewhat wrong, but I won't pursue it either. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Ed, you should know and others should know- this forum is not for carrying on like a child, not like the Art of War forum.

Finally agree on something....

I dont mind others posting about different things here........its fine with me, we all play above board. If one does not we 'all' will sort him out.

The issue was never off-topic stuff. The issue is are we going to end up playing the same kind of games, and using the same old tactics, that they do in AOW.

RickyB · Post by **RickyB** » Wed Dec 19, 2001 10:34 pm

Originally posted by Mogami:
Greetings, I didn't mean any offense. This is a Grognard website so to improve the joke I made a few suggestions. Have to get rid of the obvious blunders. As for ships with CBDR (constant bearing decreasing range{collision course} there is a standing set of rules known as 'Rules of the road' which defines which ship must change course and what direction it will turn. (can you tell I spent 10 years in the Navy? I have more Navy jokes then anyone if it comes down to that) So you should change it from ship captains to a juniour officer of the deck who is new to bridge watch. (have it late at night and both captains asleep with the JOD afraid to wake them.
The first ship I was on, when ever a Soviet ship was close by used to place porno mags in plastic bags and throw over the side. The Soviets always fished our trash out (we never threw real trash over while they were there.)
We also had a Soviet captain chew us out over something wrong in a flag signal addressed to him. so our Captain staged a firing squad of the signalmen on the helo deck for them.
We played several games of chess by radio with a Soviet ship (bad idea) and blared music at each other.

Good stories <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> . I spent 5 weeks aboard a USN Fast Frigate quite a few years ago as part of my Marine officer training, and had the pleasure of manning the radar station under supervision, plotting contacts on the screen, and had a CBDR contact. I was pretty excited but the sailor supervising me just told me to report it to the bridge crew who would follow the rules of the road in conjunction with the other ship and avoid each other.

We also went DIW (dead in the water) due to a leak in the smokestack economizer (preheats water for the boilers), lost a dummy torpedo in test firing when it sank after it was fired (the ship's officers were quite unhappy), couldn't even launch dummy torpedos at times due to a loss of compressed air, couldn't test fire one of the first Harpoons ever off a FF class ship because the launcher lost its hydraulics, the 5 inch turret went down, etc. And this after 11 months in dry dock. But hey, we did not leak <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> . However, that was a low point in our preparedness, in 1978.

Muzrub · Post by **Muzrub** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 12:01 pm

I love that tactic! Bring it up out of the blue, state your position, then claim you don't want to pursue it. Ok, you're somewhat wrong, but I won't pursue it either.

Tactic? Ed you have a paranoid mind my friend.
I dont consider the statement wrong at all.
Maybe you should go to the Art of War forum you seem to enjoy a fight.

The issue was never off-topic stuff. The issue is are we going to end up playing the same kind of games, and using the same old tactics, that they do in AOW.

I dont think so.
The thread has been up for a while now and no such thing has happened.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 12:38 pm

Originally posted by Muzrub:
Tactic? Ed you have a paranoid mind my friend.
I dont consider the statement wrong at all.
Maybe you should go to the Art of War forum you seem to enjoy a fight.

No, nothing been's said serious enough to warrant a fight. Paranoia? Bring a new issue up, state your opinion on it, then declare you don't want to pursue it, and move to something else. Its an old, often-used tactic, Muzrub, my paranoia doesn't change that fact.

First I was overreacting, now I'm insane, this latest because of a comment on agricultural subsidies. Agricultural subsidies? Insane? What's next? <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: Ed Cogburn ]</p>

Muzrub · Post by **Muzrub** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 2:30 pm

Association policy director Mick Keogh said farmers were particularly worried that they would have to compete against American producers gaining advantages through US subsidies.

Australian farmers, still waiting on the US to drop tariffs on lamb imports despite a World Trade Organisation ruling, believe their US counterparts will resist any efforts to cut their subsidies and protection.

Mr Keogh said a Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade report had found Australia's national income would climb around $30 billion from a free trade agreement, while the US would be about $35 billion better off.

He said the political protests by the US sheep industry over Australian and New Zealand lamb imports would be small compared to other American farming sectors.

"Even if the US agreed to remove trade barriers for sugar and dairy products, the vexed question of US agricultural subsidies, which are an indirect form or trade barrier, would also remain," he said.

There we go Ed.
And America wants free trade?

Of course I did not wish to pursue the issue but I am willing now. Its up to you.

Ok, you're somewhat wrong, but I won't pursue it either.

So am I wrong Ed?

Paranoia? Bring a new issue up, state your opinion on it, then declare you don't want to pursue it, and move to something else. Its an old, often-used tactic, Muzrub, my paranoia doesn't change that fact.

Like I said Ed, I didnt not want to pursue it, it was not an old tactic, it was fact. Maybe you are paranoid afterall.

First I was overreacting, now I'm insane, this latest because of a comment on agricultural subsidies. Agricultural subsidies? Insane? What's next?

Well I dont know whats next?
Agricultural subsidies!
Insane!..........No. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Lokioftheaesir · Post by **Lokioftheaesir** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 6:35 pm

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:

First I was overreacting, now I'm insane, this latest because of a comment on agricultural subsidies. Agricultural subsidies? Insane? What's next? <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: Ed Cogburn ]

Ed

What next?

When Saddam was reported to have gassed thousands of Kurds at Halabja, the White House
intervened to block any serious congressional reaction and not one member of the governing (UK)Conservative Party was willing to join a left-labor condemnation in Parliament. Both governments(UK & US) now profess outrage over the crime, and denounce those who did protest for appeasing their former comrade, while basking in media praise for their high principle.It was, of course,understood that Saddam Hussein was one of the world's most savage tyrants. But he was "our gangster," joining a club in which he could find congenial associates. Repeating a familiar formula, Geoffrey Kemp, head of the Middle East section in the National Security Council under Reagan, observed that
"We weren't really that naive. We knew that he was an SOB, but he was our SOB."

Noam Chomski

Chairman · Post by **Chairman** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 11:40 pm

Hi Guys

About misstakes as most "funy" histories are, I will remind you that someone have made those blunders.

I for instans during my schooltime made a grave error that could have ended up in a small disaster
I was serving a 6 month tutalage on MS Stena Freighter some 17-18 years ago and got to bee the helmsman and were a bit anxious about that amd it did not get better when the Pilot got aboard.

When you are nearing the harbor you have take 45 degree turn to your right (Starboard)to get into the harbor properly.

Pilot says" Hard to starboard"
And I answers "Hard to starboard, sir"

Then I am turning the wheel to the right??

OH no I am a bit confused but obeys the order and turns left(Port) totaly conviced that I am doing the right, How In gods name can he order to turn to left........?

Well I was releived of my duty quit fast and sent to the fore to help secure the ship.

All the way to the fore I was banging my head and thinking what in gods name were I doing.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Major Tom · Post by **Major Tom** » Fri Dec 21, 2001 3:59 am

It takes two to have a flame war. One person who loves to incite it, and another who loves to fight it.

Lokioftheaesir · Post by **Lokioftheaesir** » Fri Dec 21, 2001 9:44 am

Originally posted by Major Tom:
It takes two to have a flame war. One person who loves to incite it, and another who loves to fight it.

Major Tom

True

I am quite happy to have a reasonable arguement as long as the participants are reasonable. No personal attacks, swearing exct. Emotion is fine but only as a driving force behind reason not as a replacement for reason.
This is called an arguement not a flame war.

I purposely did not join in after my second post as i thought the thread would die out and was not really in the mood for an arguement.
However, as it has not done so.. Here i am.

As none of the factual statements i have made in my other posts have been contested but only my personal motivations and as this is an arguement and not a flame war.
I will ignor them. And will continue to do so.

Whether this is the time and the place is, of course, a mater for the individual and if some feel that it is not then who is compelling them to join in?

To quote Python
"An arguement is a connected series of statements intended to support a proposition, not the automatic gainsaying of everything that is said."
(No it's not! replies Cleese...hehe)

Nick