one supply on defense too little?

[pyrhic]

So i'm in an endgame in one of my games now and the allies are undisputably winning. Axis Germany is comprised of West Germany. Unfortunately it is a west germany with 80 units in it.

Now cracking this nut is going to be tough, i know that. But he can stay supplied forever on his 30 supplies. Assuming I attack at something close to parity, I'm going to spend 80 supply points on each assault, to which he's going to defend with, um, 1. And it's gonna take many assaults to break it down. I know why the one supply point defense is there, but it doesn't seem right in this case...

any thoughts?

[MarcelJV]

Perfectly fine, he had to produce the supply in the first place and did a good job to get it in to the correct position. I know it seems silly that so many units cna defend using only one, but it works. I can not imagine the game if you needed one supply for each unit each time it was attacked, the amount of supply you would have to manage.

Sorry I do not see this as a problem even in this case.

ORIGINAL: pyrhic

So i'm in an endgame in one of my games now and the allies are undisputably winning. Axis Germany is comprised of West Germany. Unfortunately it is a west germany with 80 units in it.

Now cracking this nut is going to be tough, i know that. But he can stay supplied forever on his 30 supplies. Assuming I attack at something close to parity, I'm going to spend 80 supply points on each assault, to which he's going to defend with, um, 1. And it's gonna take many assaults to break it down. I know why the one supply point defense is there, but it doesn't seem right in this case...

any thoughts?

[tacticon]

I think one supply on defense is fine otherwise the Russians and Chinese are screwed. But, it might make more sense to expend a supply point for each damaged unit that moves back to the build pool. That would force the defender to provide a little more supply up front without overly burdening the Chinese or Russians.

It would be nice if we could make supply tracks targetable in Infrastructure attacks. That would also help in the end game "German Hedgehog" without changing the other supply situations too much.

Just some thoughts.

[aletoledo]

I think everyone would agree with me: just forfeit the game, he's already won and you're just going to make yourself look bad at this point.

[pyrhic]

lmao, yes, i could imagine you'd say that

Targeting supply would a solution, but then that could lead to exploit too(first wave destroy the supply). But i think maybe there could be a supply ratio for defense (1 supply per 5 units). think of it logically - a protracted defense, on two fronts against 80 armies - all for the same cost as moving 1 fleet, 1 zone. At the very least they should have to expend a supply for when the soviets attack them and when the WA attack them , just moving all those tanks to the other side of the country....


i agree, one supply per attack wouldn't be good, nor one per unit defending. I'd even suggest that the rule only occur when you are attacked by a force >5 and greater than your own, so that one guy attacking your stack of 10 would only cause a single point of supply to be used.

possible examples:


Idea:
3 att vs 5 def: costs 3 att supply: 1 def supply
20 att vs 8 def: costs 20 att supply: 1 def supply (round down)
10 att vs 15 def: costs 10 att supply: 2 def supply (when def>att, use att #to determine supply costs, or just figure that only 10 units need respond to the threat)
80 att vs 80 def: costs 80 att supply: 16 def supply.

currently:
3 att vs 5 def: costs 3 att supply: 1 def supply
20 att vs 8 def: costs 20 att supply: 1 def supply
10 att vs 15 def: costs 10 att supply: 1 def supply
80 att vs 80 def: costs 80 att supply: 1 def supply

really what this does though is puts a cost on large army defense, which is actually pretty reasonable.

[dobeln]

Yea, I agree with the 1 per 5 (or similar solution). Still, next patch (which should be arriving late today), fortress West Germany should be far less of a problem, as Western Germany will lose its fortress status when E Germany falls.

[pyrhic]

i'm not actually concerned about beating WG or even winning the game. And it's not really about WG or its fort (though i used it as an example). hmmm, i guess it's about large defensive armies breaking the supply cost model.

[aletoledo]

yes it does seemed a bit skewed, but any rule added can cause worse problems in the future.

personally I like the idea of 1 per 5 units (fractions rounded down in the favor of the defender).

[5cats]

There is something to be said for 1 per 5 on defence, provided the attacking force is equal or larger in size. I'd also like to see limits on # defenders in a province, and limits on # of attackers from 1 province to another. Of course attacking from multiple provinces would effectively double your attackers which is how it should be! In GGWAW it doesn't matter if 40 guys all come from one direction, or if you're outflanked or even attacked from all sides! And as some have pointed out, sometimes you can attack across a very narrow strip of land too.
At least as an option, in some distant future patch Increased defensive supply & attack/defence limits. (we already have that for fleets, effectively, where sometimes they don't even show up for battle!)

[Drax Kramer]

The solution is simple. Remove the ahistorical fort from the Western Germany and voila!, AI no longer abandons Berlin to Stalin and creates a nazi ran version of Bundes Republik Deutschland that everyone leaves in peace.


Drax

[aletoledo]

thats really not the point though drax, I think he pointing out something for ANY territory on the map. why should a stack of 20 units be able to be supplied with 1 and the same units, in the same fight in another stack of 20 units have to pay 20 supply!

[Tac2i]

The patch scheduled for release this evening will cancel the fort in West Germany if East Germany is Allied controlled.

ORIGINAL: Drax Kramer

The solution is simple. Remove the ahistorical fort from the Western Germany and voila!, AI no longer abandons Berlin to Stalin and creates a nazi ran version of Bundes Republik Deutschland that everyone leaves in peace.

Drax

[pyrhic]

ORIGINAL: Webizen

The patch scheduled for release this evening will cancel the fort in West Germany if East Germany is Allied controlled.

Just too funny...[:D]