Let's make a wargame

[davewolf]

Originally posted by Lokioftheaesir:
Many counties (USA,Germany,UK and others )could have researched Jet turbine Tech in '38 (and did), They may not have made any great advances but every little bit helps.

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Loki

Just a misunderstanding. I know there were prototypes in 1938. What I wanted to say was that being able to produce thousands of jets five or six years before an opponent (not just one year) in a certain game might cause a huge game balancing problem. That doesn't mean that I believe you (or someone else) wouldn't be able to keep this balanced. May be I wouldn't be able but that's nothing I'm worried about. <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

Dave

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by crusher:
what kind of project is world in flames this is the first time i heard of it. thanks

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Its a computer version of a boardgame. Its a division level simulation of WWII encompassing the entire world (the map is of the whole world!?!). Its been stuck in beta testing for a *long* time now. It appears to me there is only one programmer working on it, and I don't know if he's working on it full-time or just part-time. This thing could still be years away.
You can get a current beta of it here:

http://www.marinacci.com/Chris/

[Lokioftheaesir]

Dave

I'm e-mailing you the basic tech advancement page from my 'paper' game.

Each major power wil have one of these. Thats 800 possible advances (divided into 8 fields) per power block. And each field has practical and theoretical levels. (most are interlinked, ie, achieving a certain level in rockety may allow IRBM's but it will also allow combat units, or naval, to have SAM factors, when refitted. Or 'electronics' might allow better radar but also better combat communications)

Also included are some of the pages used for the organisation of Corps/Army/Bases/alliances&political

Loki

PS. All these tables are PSP format (paint shop pro)
PPS. I'd send you the 'Europe' map but thats 5.6 mb's even in gif format.

[ March 01, 2002: Message edited by: Lokioftheaesir ]</p>

[davewolf]

Originally posted by Lokioftheaesir:
I'm e-mailing you the basic tech advancement page from my 'paper' game.

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Loki

Thanks. I'll try to publish it on my site. You're much better prepared than I am. I'm only working on some structure sheets. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Dave

[Lokioftheaesir]

Originally posted by davewolf:


Loki

Thanks. I'll try to publish it on my site. You're much better prepared than I am. I'm only working on some structure sheets. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Dave

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Dave

Well theres not really much point in that. aside from the fact that it exists.
The tech table for example only means something if you have the advancement formulas (a whole bunch of equations) that go with it. And the implementation codes that are linked to new designs/developments. These are not at this moment in the computer but rather exist as a part of a 20 foolscap page tangle of Lokiglyphics that only this fella can untangle.
National tech investment (for each field) requires
production factors applied to research establishments (yes you can build them in each field) and modified by previous contiguous input and national moral.
This may result in practical and theoretical advancement (if theoretical is way ahead of practical it may assist in practical advancement, also part of the overal formula)
Esionage can provide jumps in both areas as well.
For example if Germany commits much of it's esiongage assets to 'steal' US Nuclear tech it may reap great rewards (and if the US player is smart, Germany 'may' loose a lot of espionage assets, that is, if the US decides to invest in Nuclear tech at all)
Espionage assets are groups of 10 'spies' each rated with experience.(They are restricted however by several factors, culture for example, a hundred japanese espionage groups in England would hardly go un-noticed)
They can be commited to counter espionage (general or within many fields, thats 2 layers the enemy has to get through) or be assigned to 'do stuff' against any other major powers, thats 8 techs with slow and shock infiltration plus morale subversion, counter/counter espionage, sabotage against any viable targets (100's of them) exct exct
Also minor powers 'could' be heavily influenced if resources and luck are with you.
The depth i like to simulate means..
Nothing is certain in my designs, probabillity rules.

Loki

[davewolf]

Hi

Matrix is back and so is the wargame project. I spent some days setting up an account at Sourceforge.net to find an appropriate home for developing a complete application. They provide bug trackers, forums, support requests, an own project homepage and more.
You can find the project main site at: http://sourceforge.net/projects/wargamers/ . Direct link to forums: http://sourceforge.net/forum/?group_id=48257 . I will monitor this forum and the Matrix one.
Please stay in touch if you're interested.

Dave

[GET TRANSPT]

I've been following the putative game designers on this list for some time. With years of experience in the map industry, I'm well aware of the limitations of some map projections out there. This becomes particulary acute when one decides to create a world-wide wargame.

The still extant Mercator projection (it dates from 1523!), for example, is downright silly, showing sparsely populated Boreal Canada, Alaska, Greenland(!) Scandinvia and Northernmost Russia to be HUGE( by a factor of 400%+!!) relative to strategically vital Brazil, India, Central America and Africa. That some games still use this clumsy dinosaur (e.g. RISK, AXIS and ALLIES) is egregious and makes a mockery of game design attempts at "accuracy" to the last tank or plane I see bandied about on this list.

If any of you would-be map makers are interested in making a reasonable rendition of the spherical Earth on a flat surface, I strongly suggest looking at any <i> National Geographic</i> World map from the past 20 years. Mercator projection is a relic of a bygone era, and has <i>never</i> purported to be equal area.

[davewolf]

Originally posted by GET TRANSPT
If any of you would-be map makers are interested in making a reasonable rendition of the spherical Earth on a flat surface, I strongly suggest looking at any <i> National Geographic</i> World map from the past 20 years. Mercator projection is a relic of a bygone era, and has <i>never</i> purported to be equal area.

GET TRANSPT

Good points. We really should consider this... Good to see more people involved/interested.

Dave

[Popov]

I am ready to contribute.
I have thought about such a game.

I hesitate between C++ with Qt library ( great portability linux/unix/windows, the Opera browser is made with it) ane Java with its Swing library.

I feel better in Java programming, but C++ is ok too.

[davewolf]

Originally posted by Popov
I am ready to contribute.
I have thought about such a game.

I hesitate between C++ with Qt library ( great portability linux/unix/windows, the Opera browser is made with it) ane Java with its Swing library.

I feel better in Java programming, but C++ is ok too.

Popov

Great to see one more programmer interested. The programming language is one thing we probably should discuss further after we'll agree about what we want to make exactly.
For all seriously interested people: Please sign in at Sourceforge.net to stay in touch closely. And I can add everyone who wants to as a developer, admin or whatever will be properly in each case.

Dave

[Lokioftheaesir]

Originally posted by GET TRANSPT
I've been following the putative game designers on this list for some time. With years of experience in the map industry, I'm well aware of the limitations of some map projections out there. This becomes particulary acute when one decides to create a world-wide wargame.

The still extant Mercator projection (it dates from 1523!), for example, is downright silly, showing sparsely populated Boreal Canada, Alaska, Greenland(!) Scandinvia and Northernmost Russia to be HUGE( by a factor of 400%+!!) relative to strategically vital Brazil, India, Central America and Africa. That some games still use this clumsy dinosaur (e.g. RISK, AXIS and ALLIES) is egregious and makes a mockery of game design attempts at "accuracy" to the last tank or plane I see bandied about on this list.

If any of you would-be map makers are interested in making a reasonable rendition of the spherical Earth on a flat surface, I strongly suggest looking at any <i> National Geographic</i> World map from the past 20 years. Mercator projection is a relic of a bygone era, and has <i>never</i> purported to be equal area.

Get Transpt

Yes i agree the Mercator is pretty silly.
I think something like the Robinson Projection would be more suitable.
Is there another that is similar but even more evenly to scale that does not have the North/South lobes of an equal area projection?

Loki

[heiks]

would spitting the whoole world into a set of completely separate maps of continets be a totally silly idea? This would imo deal with the problem of different projections. thge division vould be done by continents or theathers, say Europe + middle east, Africa, Asia. oceania, north america and south america?
The movement between theatres would need to be abstracetd, but this is IMO a small detail.,

[Lokioftheaesir]

Originally posted by heiks
would spitting the whoole world into a set of completely separate maps of continets be a totally silly idea? This would imo deal with the problem of different projections. thge division vould be done by continents or theathers, say Europe + middle east, Africa, Asia. oceania, north america and south america?
The movement between theatres would need to be abstracetd, but this is IMO a small detail.,

Heiks

Yes, that is one way of doing it. Divide the world up into geopolitical blocks.
A reasonable idea. It should also work code/wise.
(mostly a naval sub/routine + some air)
Yet, i feel the pull of fiction. 1984,, eurasia,oceana,eastasia.

Loki

[BlackOne]

Greetings,
I'm also creating a wargame, and it is an enormous task! I'm currently still in the phase of writing the design document (and its already over 50 pages long!!). Those who wish to code this directly are crazy imo ...The combat aspect is not finalized yet, as it is quite difficult to know which approach to use, I'd really like an aggregated model on different weapon types. My experiments with coding has been ok, but I've not been able to effectively simulate air combat and bombardment, and artillery fire is based on some old US Army Field manuals, and I wonder if it is accurate enough...

I'm basing myself on facts from WWII, War in Russia, TOAW: Century of Warfare, Dupuy's book on attrition, as well some PH'd from the DOD (especially regarding aggregated combat models).

Considering the amount of work this requires (especially historical), I've given up on making my project open source (my original idea) - i will sell it for a very small fee (15$ US or so). Free for those help and playtest.

But i really need help on my game, as i'm no combat expert at all. Overall the game will be like TOAW and will be able to represent any type of war from about 1880's to current days. The base unit would be at division and brigade level, with usb-units also possible. The graphics and system would be like War In Russia, with much more details on certain aspects... The scenario editor will also have an event editor to be able to simulate political events to a limited extent.

Once the wargame engine is finished, wargames can be producted by it, but it could also become part of a larger project with more emphasis on diplomacy, politics and economy.

If someone is interested (seriously!) in helping out, any help would be welcome. Please e-mail me for more information.

Some aspects of the current wargame (all of the aspects of WIR included) +
- Medical (also replacements are not all new fresh troops, but WIA's also)...
- Spying/Reconnaissance
- Naval warfare (as in Pacwar)
- Units with special abilities (Engineering, Special Forces, Guerilla)
- Fortress cities, like in Western Front
- Event editor to add any event (or almost)
- Unlimited map
- Very complex readiness and replacement calculation

[Von Cone-on]

Hi to All,
I'd be happy to do some graphics as I have the necessary 3D & Art skills. ie unit icons, maps, realistic terrain & city hexes
Cheers Von Cone-on

[EvilWeevil]

I'm a software developer by trade, so if you need a hand with the coding, let me know and I'll see what I can do.