Now don't get me wrong...

[Flop]

OK I want to preface this by saying that I am a long time player of Mr. Grigsby's games and I have HTTR, PW, UV and FG all my computer now and play them time permitting.

I recenlty moved and was out of touch for a few months and when I saw W&W was out I went on a quest today and came home with it in my hands about 7 hours ago. I was so excited.

Ok now to my problem and maybe I am just an idiot so if so please help me . I am finding this game to be nothing more than a "can you sink enough transports" game. I have played 3 solo games today and in each one the US has over 50 transports, 10 Heavy fleets and 10 Carrier fleets by Spring of 41. It's not a matter of if but when and it's not even a matter of the number but the way the transports are used in this game. The whole "Hands across the Ocean thing I just don't get.

In the game I just aborted out of it was summer of 41 and the US/British had a transport fleet in, and I am not kidding, every ocean square from the US to Europe from the Pole down to Panama. I sunk 6 transports with my subs and opened a hole from Gibralter to England but on the AI turn he slid tanks across to England via the North Pole.

I guess for me it's that whole realism thing just kinda thrown out of the window. I really want to like this one and with the exception of the speed skating transport set-up I think it is rock solid, but that part is killing it for me.

Anyone else have that feeling or am I out here by myself

Thanks: Flop

[Tac2i]

First, have you downloaded and installed the patches? Second, the Allied player lives or dies by his transports as do the Japanese. During WWII the Allies had a huge merchant marine fleet. In fact, the death rate among merchant mariners was 1 in 26, higher than any other service, even the army. Unless your opponent or the AI really blows it, you are unlikely to seriously damaged the transport fleet, though in the early part of the game you can really put a hurt on the allied resupply efforts by sinking as many as possible.

[Maginot]

I disagree. If the German player seizes Gibraltar then he can bypass OP-Fire by going from the med into port and out into the Atlantic. He can then wreack havoc amongst your fleets. I'm currently playing a 2v2 game against Svend and he has 8 3-3 subs that are killing anywhere between 3-5 transports a turn, plus their escorts. A good German player can throw the transport network in constant disarray, forcing the Allied Player, especially when US is frozen, to send destroyers and transports to the end of the earth to reapir vital supply lines to the Middle East and Russia.

[Flop]

Good morngin Webixen. I have updatd the game to the most recent patch, 1.3 somethign I belive it is. I stayed up and played all night and I'm just not getting it. I actually cranbked up and played a game of A&A and FG around 0300 just to have some fun.

Oh well it's my loss as the game is solid and chock full of cool stuff, the whole sliding transport thing just isn't my bag I guess .

[Flop]

Maybe a PBEM is the answer then. I'm not sure. I'll give it a try if I can find someone that wants to play.

and please remember. I am not dissing the game. The game is solid, no crahses, has some great stuff and I think overall Matrix put out another solid product from the programming side.

[Toby42]

I'm with you. I bought the game retail, and it's just not right for me. I'm more into historical games. This is more like Empire building than recreating historical situations. I should have known better, but I thought that with Grigsby doing it ?? Oh well you pay your money and take your chances.... Back to SSG's games.

[Flop]

See Treale that is how I am feeling. The reason I am such a long time supporter and purchaser of Grisby/Matrix games is I always felt I was getting some that was close to realistic. Based largely on the transport system I don't feel that way here.

I guess itcomes down to this. In the game I am currently playing the I just sunk 13 US/ British transports in a single turn. Problem is that there are no tanks, men or planes going to the bottom of the Ocean with them. Those ships should be loaded with supplies and such and it should have an effect on the game, but bottom line is that it doesn't. The US had 40+ more and I guess the ones I keep sinking are empty .

[dembe73]

You should see the transports as routes and capacity to ship not as actual physical ships. Disrupting the transport network has huge consequences for Allied play even though at first the Axis dont notice much, because the WA start with a few spare.

If you continue disrupting the transports however the WA will have to break up chains which causes supplies to stay in the wrong places(ie when you are attacking the Middle East) , troops not moving (usefull when you try Sealion) and resources not being picked up (try breaking the Africa link both sides for 15 loss per turn for the WA), which is a huge pain when the USA reaches the multiplier 4.

[Flop]

Thanks Dembe. I'll give it a go

[Uncle_Joe]

Play as the WAllies for a game and you'll quickly see that the transports and supplies arent as unlimited as the appear to the Axis... [;)]

[TOCarroll]

Funny...CGW Review said that the transport/logistics side of the game was it's only good part.[:@]

Personally, I find playing the AI boring (when compared to PBEM). WaW provides ample opportunity to explore alternate stratigies, such as getting at England by closing off the Med. (as advocated by Grand Admiral Erich Raeder, and Fiel Marshall Rommel). Double-teaming Russia is not the only way to open a can of whoop-ass![:D]

The allies are not limited to their traditional roles either. About the only sure thing is entry into war (German DOW or Spring, 1943).

Prussian Tom

[5cats]

The transport system IS unusual, but give it more than a 1 day test before it ruins the game for you. Think of it this way, the industry used to replace all those transports could be making tanks & planes, not merchants. Have you got Advanced Supply ON? It shows how critical Transports are when you can't get supplies to the troops BTW the AI loves to make tons of transports, I'm not sure why.
Play Russia, they have like 2 transports! lol!
Also it's a waaaay different game against a human. AI can only do so much you know, but us humans are a whole different can of worms.

[Tac2i]

Flop, give this review a read:

http://www.strategyzoneonline.com/artic ... 425&page=1

[Flop]

Thanks guys and I am still trying . I'm starting a second PBEM game with Q now. He beat me like a drum in the first one.

[Joel Billings]

Sorry to hear some of you aren't enjoying the way we simulate merchant shipping lanes by using transports that you position as a chain. We think this is the best way to simulate global movement of troops. Remember troops could go a long way in 3 months. The old Axis & Allies method of moving troops on transports meant that long distance movement was very slow. Also, we had to deal with shipping all the resources around the map for our more detailed production system. Without the shipping lanes full of ships, the Allies (and later the Japanese) would not be able to produce as much, and this comes through in the game. Just wait until US subs sink the Japanese transport fleet (as they did historically). Japanese production will dry up. We understand the desire to sink things other than just transports, but every time a transport is killed 2 production and 2 population points are used up. This adds up and represents the loss of troops/supplies on the ships. We understand it takes some getting used to, but for the reasons listed above, we think it adds a ton of realism to the game, which sets GGWaW apart from A&A which is pure beer & pretzels wargaming (no knock on A&A, which I really enjoy).

Also, in versions prior to 1.033 the Op-fire routine did not work, allowing units and supplies to move via transport through areas containing enemy units. This was fixed in 1.033 so you can't get away with this anymore. This make it even more difficult to keep your convoy lanes safe.

[Bradley7735]

ORIGINAL: Webizen

In fact, the death rate among merchant mariners was 1 in 26, higher than any other service, even the army.

The Submarine forces had the highest losses of any service. I belive the Germans lost 80% of their men in the Sub service. The US lost about 20%.

The only other service that had higher losses was the Kamikaze corps in Japan. I think their loss ratio was close to 100%. [;)]

[tai4ji2x]

like uncle_joe said, just think of them as abstractions. you'll feel much better inside [;)]

[Flop]

Heheh thanks Tai I will say that playing PBEM is much better than against the AI. I am involved in my first game and and throughly enjoying it.