Japanese Army TOE's and OOB's

[Kereguelen]

Hi all,

I started this thread after discussing some OOB and TOE stuff with Don Bowen. It is adressed to all modders and people interested in historic OOB’s and TOE’s. The material presented here about the IJA comes from many sources, some of them of a rather dubious quality. But after lots of research (done since good old PACWAR) I think that most “fits” quite well. I hope that by correcting some OOB’s and TOE’s, it will be possible to correct some problems with the land combat model. I’ve done some tests with the TOE’s presented here, and it seems to work quite well. Diligent readers will notice that artillery and anti-tank strengths of Japanese divisions as well as the number of rifle squads in most divisions was somewhat reduced. This was done because my research resulted in this reductions, not to deliberately weaken the IJA. I found it interesting that by the configurations given here, the reasons why the Japanese always suffered heavy losses when fighting the Soviets (especially at Nomonhan, Manchuria in 1945 had more and other reasons) are quite ostensible: Not enough artillery and not enough AT weapons were available to counter Soviet power in these fields. I fear that most “Japanese Fanboys” will not be very happy with the stuff here because it seems to reduce Japanese combat power somewhat, but the reductions seemed only to slow down things somewhat at start of the game in my tests while it left the overall power of the IJA intact.

Edited post because I recently discovered some new sources (new for me) that allowed me to correct some assumptions I had taken. This mainly concerns the structure and strength of Japanese Reinforced Divisions and adds a completely new TOE for so-called "Modified Reinforced Divisions" (I knew about their existence before but was wrongly thinking that this structure had been deleted by December 1941. Reinforced divisions are now somewhat less strong in their number of rifle squads. Changes and additions are written in bold letters.

Japanese Infantry Divisions

There were three basic categories of Japanese divisions in WW2: “Reinforced” (A-Type), “standard” (B-Type) and “garrison” (C-Type). C-Type garrison divisions did not exist at the start of the Pacific War. They were later formed locally from existing formations (mostly from Independent Mixed Brigades). This are the divisions that appear in the game in China and Manchuria. They had completely different TOE’s (no infantry and artillery regiments, and no cavalry or recon regiments) and were considerably weaker than other divisions [these divisions appear as reinforcements in the game in China and Manchuria]. Because of the problems they present (most formations that were incorporated into them do exist in the game at start or appear as reinforcements somewhen), I’ll deal with them later. B-Type divisions were the standard divisions of the IJA. It is not completely clear to me, which divisions fell into the “A” category. I’ve categorized divisions as A-Type when they fielded more and/or heavier artilery than other divisions as organic artillery (divisional artillery strengths are well-documented). But that is just a supposition and I would greatly welcome more facts about this topic if anyone could provide them. Some existing divisions were on a square TOE (four infantry regiments) in December 1941. They were converted to triangular divisions later and the excess regiments mostly used to form new divisions. I’ve omitted the fourth regiments from the TOE. Instaed I’ld propose to use this regiments as independent units at start (adding them at the locations of their original parent divisions).


Rifle Squads:
The number of rifle squads in Japanese formations is the most problematic part of Japanese TOE’s. According to most sources, Japanese battalions operated with 4 rifle companies, a company having 3 platoons with 3 squads each. This is even documented for reinforced divisions. However, reinforced divisions did posses much more manpower and LMG’s. But it’s not clear how the additional LMG’s and manpower were incorporated in the divisional structures. Some of the additional soldiers served the additional mortars and artillery guns or were employed as regimental engineers in the strengthened regiments of reinforced divisions, but this does not explain the additional LMG’s. Because of this it seemed appropiate to give reinfored divisions one more squad/platoon, thus giving strengthed regiments 144 instead of the usual 108 rifle squads.

Mortars
Light mortars (or rather grenade dischargers) are already included in the rifle squads. There were three for every platoon in a grenade launcher squad. Medium mortars (81mm and 90mm) were only found in reinforced divisions, certain independent brigades, and the divisional reconnaissance and cavalry regiments. Battalions of strengthened regiments possesed 12 81mm Mortars each, divisional cavalry regiments 18 either 81mm or 90mm, and divisional recce regiments 16 either 81mm or 90mm.

Heavy Machine Guns and Machine Cannons

Light machine guns are included in the rifle squads. As a heavy machine gun the IJA used the 7.7mm Type 92 which should be rather labeled a medium MG at best. Battalions in standard divisions fielded twelve of them, in reinforced divisions this number was reduced to 4-8 MG’s. Reinforced divisions added 20mm Type 98 Machine Cannons instead of the missing MG’s at regimental level. It seems to be a good idea to add the Type 92 MG as a new device (as well as Vickers MMG and Browning MMG/HMG for the Allies). The 20mm Machine Cannon is in the game labeled 20mm Anti-Tank/Anti-Air Gun.

Regimental and Battalion Guns

As a regimental gun, the IJA employed a 75mm Infantry Gun. Regiments in standard divisions received only 4 of them, regiments in reinforced divisions employed 8. 70mm Infantry Howitzers were used as battalion guns, 2 of them for every battalion in standard divisions, 4 in battalions of reinforced divisions.

Artillery Regiments

Japanese field artillery was quite light compared to western standards. Most Japanese divisions fielded only 36 75mm Mountain Guns in their artillery regiments. In some divisions 75mm Field Guns were employed instead and sometimes 12 guns were replaced by 105mm Howitzers when available. Reinforced divisions mostly had 12 75mm Field Guns, 12 105mm Howitzers and 12 150mm Howitzers, sometimes more, sometimes less.

Cavalry and Reconnaissance Regiments

Most Japanese divisions had either a cavalry or a (partly mechanized) recon regiment, but some had only a light tankette company instead. The term “regiment” for these units is rather misleading as they were rather weak battalions in reality.

Divisional Engineers

Both standard and reinforced divisions possessed engineers regiments with 3 engineer companies (27 squads, maybe more as these companies were quite strong). Reinforced divisions added permanent engineer “groups” at regimental level, surprisingly rather as a work-force than as combat engineers. OK, recently found out some interesting facts about Japanese engineers. Was always doubtful about their employment as assault engineers and was confirmed. Engineer regiments found in infantry divisions did only possess 9 LMG and no light mortars, while engineer battalions (sometimes called engineer “units”) had only 6 LMG of them (divisional engineer regiments were not true regiments but rather strengthened battalions). Thus it seems reasonable to give only 9 IJA Engineer squads to divisions. But the ordinary engineer companies were indeed quite strong and giving them 12 squads/company seems adequate. I’ll now give B-Type divisions 9 IJA Engineer Squads and 24 Engineer Squads and reinforced Divisions 9 IJA Engineer Squads and 48 Engineer Squads.

[Kereguelen]

Edited post because of new information as described in post above.

Divisional TOE’s

These are my TOE for Japanese triangular divisions. When the campaign is SE Asia started, many divisions were lacking certain units that were included in the TOE. The 15th, 21st, 22nd, 32nd, 33rd, 35th, 36th, 37th, 38th and 41st divisions did not possess Recon or Cavalry regiments then. Instead some of them had Tankette companies (7 each) as substitutes. I’m not sure if they ever formed full Recon regiments, but I think they should be able to do so (if the Japanese player is able to produce the necessary stuff) by having the appropiate TOE’s.


IJA Reinforced Division (A-Type with Recon Rgt.)

432x IJA Rifle Squad, 27x IJA Engineer Squad, 36x 70mm Howitzer, 24x 75mm Infantry Gun, 108x 81mm Mortar, 16x 90mm Mortar, 12x 75mm Field Gun, 24x 105mm Howitzer, 12x 150mm Howitzer, 40x 37mm Anti-Tank Gun, 72x Type 98 20mm Anti-Tank/Anti-Air Gun, 76x Type 92 MMG, 18x Engineer Squad, 12x IJA Mechanized Squad, 6x IJA Cavalry Squad, 7x Type Tankette

345x IJA Rifle Squad, 27x IJA Engineer Squad, 36x 70mm Howitzer, 24x 75mm Infantry Gun, 96x 81mm Mortar, 16x 90mm Mortar, 12x 75mm Field Gun, 24x 105mm Howitzer, 12x 150mm Howitzer, 40x 37mm Anti-Tank Gun, 72x Type 98 20mm Anti-Tank/Anti-Air Gun, 76x Type 92 MMG, 18x Engineer Squad, 28x IJA Mechanized Squad, 7x Type Tankette

This TOE would apply to 1st, 2nd, 8th, 14th, 23rd, 24th and 48th (?)Divisions

IJA Reinforced Division (A-Type with Cavalry Rgt.)

432x IJA Rifle Squad, 27x IJA Engineer Squad, 36x 70mm Howitzer, 24x 75mm Infantry Gun, 108x 81mm Mortar, 18x 90mm Mortar, 12x 75mm Field Gun, 24x 105mm Howitzer, 12x 150mm Howitzer, 38x 37mm Anti-Tank Gun, 76x Type 98 20mm Anti-Tank/Anti-Air Gun, 82x Type 92 MMG, 18x Engineer Squad, 27x IJA Cavalry Squad

345x IJA Rifle Squad, 27x IJA Engineer Squad, 36x 70mm Howitzer, 24x 75mm Infantry Gun, 96x 81mm Mortar, 18x 90mm Mortar, 12x 75mm Field Gun, 24x 105mm Howitzer, 12x 150mm Howitzer, 38x 37mm Anti-Tank Gun, 76x Type 98 20mm Anti-Tank/Anti-Air Gun, 82x Type 92 MMG, 18x Engineer Squad, 28x IJA Cavalry Squad

This TOE would apply to 4th and 25th Divisions

IJA Standard Division (B-Type with Recon Rgt. and Mtn. Artillery Rgt.)

324x IJA Rifle Squad, 27x IJA Engineer Squad, 18x 70mm Howitzer, 12x 75mm Infantry Gun, 16x 90mm Mortar, 36x 75mm Mountain Gun, 22x 37mm Anti-Tank Gun, 112x Type 92 MMG, 12x IJA Mechanized Squad, 6x IJA Cavalry Squad, 7x Type Tankette

336x IJA Rifle Squad, 27x IJA Engineer Squad, 18x 70mm Howitzer, 12x 75mm Infantry Gun, 16x 90mm Mortar, 36x 75mm Mountain Gun, 22x 37mm Anti-Tank Gun, 112x Type 92 MMG, 28x IJA Mechanized Squad, 7x Type Tankette

This TOE would apply to 16th, 27th, 33rd, 36th, 37th, 38th and 41st Division. 31st Division (which was later formed from existing regiments from square divisions) received the same TOE.

IJA Standard Division (B-Type with Recon Rgt. and Field Artillery Rgt.)

Same TOE as Division with Mtn. Rgt. but replaces 75mm Mtn. Guns with 75mm Field Guns.

Error: Actually these divisions operated under a Modified Reinforced TOE
345x IJA Rifle Squad, 27x IJA Engineer Squad, 36x 70mm Howitzer, 12x 75mm Infantry Gun, 96x 81mm Mortar, 16x 90mm Mortar, 12x 75mm Field Gun, 24x 105mm Howitzer, 22x 37mm Anti-Tank Gun, 72x Type 98 20mm Anti-Tank/Anti-Air Gun, 76x Type 92 MMG, 18x Engineer Squad, 28x IJA Mechanized Squad, 7x Type Tankette

This TOE would apply to 17th, 19th, 20th, 26th, 32nd, 34th, 35th, 39th, 104th Division. The later formed 43rd, 46th, 50th, 66th, 94th and 119th Divisions had the same TOE.

IJA Standard Division (B-Type with Recon Rgt. and Field Artillery Rgt.)

Same TOE as Division with Field Rgt. but had 12 75mm Field Guns and 24 105mm Howitzers.

Error: Actually these divisions operated under a Modified Reinforced TOE
345x IJA Rifle Squad, 27x IJA Engineer Squad, 36x 70mm Howitzer, 12x 75mm Infantry Gun, 96x 81mm Mortar, 16x 90mm Mortar, 24x 75mm Field Gun, 12x 105mm Howitzer, 22x 37mm Anti-Tank Gun, 72x Type 98 20mm Anti-Tank/Anti-Air Gun, 76x Type 92 MMG, 18x Engineer Squad, 28x IJA Mechanized Squad, 7x Type Tankette

This TOE would apply to 10th and 12th Divisions.

IJA Standard Division (B-Type with Recon Rgt. and Field Artillery Rgt.)

Same TOE as Division with Field Rgt. but had 24 75mm Field Guns and 12 105mm Howitzers.

This TOE would apply to 28th, 51st, 53rd, 54th, 57th and Imperial Guard Division. 30th Division (which was later formed from existing regiments from square divisions) received the same TOE.

IJA Standard Division (B-Type with Cavalry Rgt. and Mtn. Artillery Rgt.)

324x IJA Rifle Squad, 27x IJA Engineer Squad, 18x 70mm Howitzer, 12x 75mm Infantry Gun, 18x 90mm Mortar, 36x 75mm Mountain Gun, 20x 37mm Anti-Tank Gun, 4x Type 98 20mm Anti-Tank/Anti-Air Gun, 118x Type 92 MMG, 27x IJA Cavalry Squad

336x IJA Rifle Squad, 27x IJA Engineer Squad, 18x 70mm Howitzer, 12x 75mm Infantry Gun, 18x 90mm Mortar, 36x 75mm Mountain Gun, 20x 37mm Anti-Tank Gun, 4x Type 98 20mm Anti-Tank/Anti-Air Gun, 118x Type 92 MMG, 28x IJA Cavalry Squad

This TOE would apply to 9th, 11th, 13th, 18th, 29th, 40th and 52nd Division. The later formed 31st, 47th, 49th, 71st, 77th and 93rd Divisions received the same TOE.

IJA Standard Division (B-Type with Cavalry Rgt. and Field Artillery Rgt.)

Same TOE as Division with Mtn. Rgt. but replaces 75mm Mtn. Guns with 75mm Field Guns.

This TOE would apply to 3rd, 6th, 110th and 116th Division. The later raised 1st Imperial Guards (from Guards Mixed Brigade which starts the game at Tokyo), 3rd Imperial Guards, 44th, 72nd, 81st, 86th and 120th Divisions had the same TOE.

[Kereguelen]

IJA Garrison Divisions (C-Type)

As stated above, these divisions present some problems of their own. While they contained two brigades each, they were by no means akin to the square divisions the Japanese fielded early in the war (until bringing them to triangular format). Instead their brigades were (formerly) independent brigades and independent mixed brigades which were renamed. In addition, they received small engineer (and signal) units which were not found in the earlier independent brigades. But they did not get any recce or artillery units, instead keeping the limited artillery assets that were part of the brigade structure. After all, their main purpose was garrison duty and anti-guerilla warfare in China. In game-terms there remains the problems that they were mostly formed from existing formations.

I was only partly able to identify the formations (brigades) the “new” brigades were formed from. According to the battalion numbers it seems that all brigades that formed C-Type divisions in 1942 were formed from battalions that had existed in December 1941 even if some were maybe not included in brigades then. Even the Independent Mixed Brigades that existed in December 1941 were formed from Independent Battalions.

Garrison Divisions formed in 1942

58th Division arrives in the game in February 1942 in China. It was formed from 18th Independent Mixed Brigade (renamed 51st Ind. Brigade) and an unidentified other brigade which was named 52nd Ind. Brigade then (it’s not clear from which brigade if any, but the battalions did exist before).

59th Division arrives in the game February 1942 in China. Was formed from former 10th Ind. Mixed Brigade (renamed 53rd Ind. Brigade) and new 54th Ind. Brigade (same problem as with 52nd Ind. Brigade above).

60th Division arrives in the game April 1942 in China. Was formed from former 11th Ind. Mixed Brigade as new 55th Ind. Brigade and new 56th Ind. Brigade (same problem).

62nd Division which arrives in the game in April 1942 in China, was formed from 4th and 15th Independent Mixed Brigades (redesignated as 63rd and 64th Independent Brigades).

67th Division arrives in the game April 1942 (?) in China. Its new 57th Ind. Brigade was formed by renaming 14th Ind. Brigade. It’s other brigade (58th Ind.) was formed from existing battalions.

69th Division arrives in April 1942 in China. New 59th Ind. Brigade was formed by renaming 16th Ind. Mixed Brigade. New 60th Ind. Brigade from existing battalions. Appears in the game as independent formation in July 1944 at Kadina, 59th June 1944 at Heilar.

70th Division arrives in April 1942 in China. New 61st Ind. Brigade was formed by renaming 20th Ind. Mixed Brigade. New 62nd Ind. Brigade from existing battalions.

Garrison Divisions formed in 1943/44

63rd Division arrives in the game in May 1944 (?). Was formed with new 66th and 67th Ind. Brigades solely with battalions that had belonged to 6th Independent Brigade until then. No new battalions raised.

64th Division arrives in the game in June 1943 in China. Formed from 12th Ind. Mixed Brigade (renamed 69th Ind. Brigade) and a new 70th Ind. Brigade (not sure if this formation was completely new, probably not but unclear).

65th Division arrives in the game in June 1943 in China. Formed from 13th Ind. Mixed Brigade (renamed 71st Ind. Brigade) and a new 72nd Ind. Brigade (not sure if this formation was completely new, probably not but unclear).

91st Division arrives in the game April 1944. Was formed from 73rd and 74th Ind. Brigades. This formation may have been raised completely new.

100th Division arrives in the game June 1944. Was formed from 30th Ind. Mixed Brigade and two newly raised battalions. Independent Brigades were named 75th and 76th.

102nd Division arrives in the game June 1944. Was formed from 31st Ind. Mixed Brigade and two newly raised battalions. Independent Brigades were named 77th and 78th.

103rd Division arrives in the game June 1944. Was probably formed from 32nd Ind. Mixed Brigade and two newly raised battalions (not completely clear). Independent Brigades were numbered 79th and 80th. Both appear in the game again in February 1945.

105th Division arrives in the game June 1944. Was probably formed from 33rd Ind. Mixed Brigade and two newly raised battalions (not completely clear). Independent Brigades were numbered 81st and 82nd.

109th Division arrives in the game July 1944. Was formed with 1st and 2nd Mixed Brigades but probably not the same formations that had worn this numberings in Dec. 1941. Maybe newly raised? Not sure about this!

114th Division arrives in the game September 1944. It’s new 83rd Ind. Brigade was formed from 3rd Independent Brigade, the 84th Brigade seems to have been raised completely new.

115th Division arrives in the game July 1944. New 85th Ind. Brigade was formed by renaming 7th Ind. Mixed Brigade, 86th Ind. Brigade from newly raised battalions.

117th Division arrives in the game July 1944. 87th Ind. Brigade was formed by renaming 4th Independent Brigade, no data about the makeup of new 88th Ind. Brigade.


It was very interesting to notice that most Japanese Independent Mixed Brigades make their appearance in at least two incarnations: (1) as Independent Mixed (partly named Independent) Brigades, (2) as part of Garrison Divisions.

Edited because of some errors and additions. TOE's will follow when dealing with brigade organizations.

[Central Blue]

Keregulen --

good work, especially on improving the artillery count.

There is still a fundamental flaw in TOE's when people deal with the extra personnel leftover from accounting for rifle squads. The main problem is that no one wants to account for all crew-served weapons like belt-fed MGs under .50 and mortars under 81 mm. Assigning accurate values to all crew served weapons would remove the need to play around with the number of rifle squads.

for example, the last TOE for the USMC, G-100, division would look like

243 rifle squads
162 .30 M1917A1
356 .30 M1919A4
162 .50 HB-M2
24 37mm M3A1
12 105mm M7B1
36 105mm M2A1
12 155mm M2A1
117 60mm M2
36 81mm M1
12 4.5 inch Mk 7 self-propelled rocket launcher
46 M4A2/M4A3 medium tank
9 M4A2/M4A3 flamethrower tank
91 LVT

(numbers based on U.s. Marine Corp World War II Divisions, Brigades, and Regiments by Gordon L. Rottman. Numbers do not account for divisional recon company, MP company, war dog platoon, or engineer battalion or other similar units at the regimental level)

In a specific case like this, where there is detailed information available about the amount of bazookas, BAR's, flamethrowers, and demolition kits available to rifle squads, it becomes possible to build a more accurate picture of the offensive/defensive value of a late war USMC rifle squad. All other weapons not employed by the rifle squad have an offensive/defensive value of their own, which includes their crew. All additional personnel not in rifle squads, engineering squads, or crew-served weapons units are by definition, support at a ratio described in rule 8.1.2.

I did something like that when I looked at early war Russian infantry units before the baseball season started. I posted this back in late March.Based on information from The Red Army Handbook by Zaloga and Ness

Here is the Rifle division:

345 infantry squads
224 support squads
50 engineer squads
9 cavalry squads
484 trucks
162 mmg
45 T-26 tanks
10 armored cars
16 T-38
54 82 mm mortar
54 45 mm AT gun
32 122 mm howitzers
16 76 mm guns
12 152 mm howitzers
18 76 mm infantry guns
12 120 mm mortars
14 hmg
18 quad mmg AA
8 37 mm AA
4 76 mm AA

At the begining of the war the Soviets had 5 rifle brigades. RAH sez two were based on two infantry regiments and a light artillery regiment. For want of better info at this time, that's what I'm doing with the ones for this OOB

Rifle Brigade

224 infantry squads
12 engineer squads
6 cavalry squads
64 support squads
39 trucks
108 mmg
6 hmg
12 quad mmg AA
36 82 mm mortars
8 120 mm mortars
12 76 mm infantry guns
36 76 mm guns
24 45 mm AT guns

The Cards are in first place, and most of my interest in this game is on hiatus except for David Baranyi's AAR's and progress like Kereguelen's.

[bstarr]

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

IJA Garrison Divisions (C-Type)

As stated above, these divisions present some problems of their own. While they contained two brigades each, they were by no means akin to the square divisions the Japanese fielded early in the war (until bringing them to triangular format). Instead their brigades were (formerly) independent brigades and independent mixed brigades which were renamed. In addition, they received small engineer (and signal) units which were not found in the earlier independent brigades. But they did not get any recce or artillery units, instead keeping the limited artillery assets that were part of the brigade structure. After all, their main purpose was garrison duty and anti-guerilla warfare in China. In game-terms there remains the problems that they were mostly formed from existing formations.

I was only partly able to identify the formations (brigades) the “new” brigades were formed from. According to the battalion numbers it seems that all brigades that formed C-Type divisions in 1942 were formed from battalions that had existed in December 1941 even if some were maybe not included in brigades then. Even the Independent Mixed Brigades that existed in December 1941 were formed from Independent Battalions.

Garrison Divisions formed in 1942

58th Division arrives in the game in February 1942 in China. It was formed from 18th Independent Mixed Brigade (renamed 51st Ind. Brigade) and an unidentified other brigade which was named 52nd Ind. Brigade then (it’s not clear from which brigade if any, but the battalions did exist before).

59th Division arrives in the game February 1942 in China. Was formed from former 10th Ind. Mixed Brigade (renamed 53rd Ind. Brigade) and new 54th Ind. Brigade (same problem as with 52nd Ind. Brigade above).

60th Division arrives in the game April 1942 in China. Was formed from former 11th Ind. Mixed Brigade as new 55th Ind. Brigade and new 56th Ind. Brigade (same problem).

62nd Division which arrives in the game in April 1942 in China, was formed from 4th and 15th Independent Mixed Brigades (redesignated as 63rd and 64th Independent Brigades).

67th Division arrives in the game April 1942 (?) in China. Its new 57th Ind. Brigade was formed by renaming 14th Ind. Brigade. It’s other brigade (58th Ind.) was formed from existing battalions.

69th Division arrives in April 1942 in China. New 59th Ind. Brigade was formed by renaming 16th Ind. Mixed Brigade. New 60th Ind. Brigade from existing battalions. Appears in the game as independent formation in July 1944 at Kadina, 59th June 1944 at Heilar.

70th Division arrives in April 1942 in China. New 61st Ind. Brigade was formed by renaming 20th Ind. Mixed Brigade. New 62nd Ind. Brigade from existing battalions.

Garrison Divisions formed in 1943/44

63rd Division arrives in the game in May 1944 (?). Was formed with new 66th and 67th Ind. Brigades solely with battalions that had belonged to 6th Independent Brigade until then. No new battalions raised.

64th Division arrives in the game in June 1943 in China. Formed from 12th Ind. Mixed Brigade (renamed 69th Ind. Brigade) and a new 70th Ind. Brigade (not sure if this formation was completely new, probably not but unclear).

65th Division arrives in the game in June 1943 in China. Formed from 13th Ind. Mixed Brigade (renamed 71st Ind. Brigade) and a new 72nd Ind. Brigade (not sure if this formation was completely new, probably not but unclear).

91st Division arrives in the game April 1944. Was formed from 73rd and 74th Ind. Brigades. This formation may have been raised completely new.

100th Division arrives in the game June 1944. Was formed from 30th Ind. Mixed Brigade and two newly raised battalions. Independent Brigades were named 75th and 76th.

102nd Division arrives in the game June 1944. Was formed from 31st Ind. Mixed Brigade and two newly raised battalions. Independent Brigades were named 77th and 78th.

103rd Division arrives in the game June 1944. Was probably formed from 32nd Ind. Mixed Brigade and two newly raised battalions (not completely clear). Independent Brigades were numbered 79th and 80th. Both appear in the game again in February 1945.

105th Division arrives in the game June 1944. Was probably formed from 33rd Ind. Mixed Brigade and two newly raised battalions (not completely clear). Independent Brigades were numbered 81st and 82nd.

109th Division arrives in the game July 1944. Was formed with 1st and 2nd Mixed Brigades but probably not the same formations that had worn this numberings in Dec. 1941. Maybe newly raised? Not sure about this!

114th Division arrives in the game September 1944. It’s new 83rd Ind. Brigade was formed from 3rd Independent Brigade, the 84th Brigade seems to have been raised completely new.

115th Division arrives in the game July 1944. New 85th Ind. Brigade was formed by renaming 7th Ind. Mixed Brigade, 86th Ind. Brigade from newly raised battalions.

117th Division arrives in the game July 1944. 87th Ind. Brigade was formed by renaming 4th Independent Brigade, no data about the makeup of new 88th Ind. Brigade.


It was very interesting to notice that most Japanese Independent Mixed Brigades make their appearance in at least two incarnations: (1) as Independent Mixed (partly named Independent) Brigades, (2) as part of Garrison Divisions.

Edited because of some errors and additions. TOE's will follow when dealing with brigade organizations.

You know, with all the gripes about Japan overpowering china early on it's a wonder no one has suggested eliminating some of these duplicate formations. I'm thinking particularly of the brigades that were formed into divisions in 1942. If these brigades were deleted there's no way Japan could go on any offensive until summer and by then they would be facing level nine fortifications. To make it work, base units would have to be given more inf squads to compensate for the China partisan rule.
bs

ps. It may even be better to replace the duplicate brigades with historic MP and/or chinese puppet units, strong enough to offset the partisan rule but too weak to influence a Jap offensive.

[Lemurs!]

We will be getting rid of many late war units in the Japanese OOB that were duplicates. Some will be the formed divisions, some will be the new ind. brigades that went into the new divisions. We will not be removing any mixed brigades from the at start OOB.

I am going to hurt a few peoples feelings here; China was never a problem. The only Japanese players who ran rough shod over China in 1.3 or later were facing opponents who had no idea how to fight a land war.
A good Chinese player can keep the Japanese from capturing any more than 1 base between '42 and '44.

The extra devices will still not be added.

Mike

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: Central Blue

There is still a fundamental flaw in TOE's when people deal with the extra personnel leftover from accounting for rifle squads. The main problem is that no one wants to account for all crew-served weapons like belt-fed MGs under .50 and mortars under 81 mm. Assigning accurate values to all crew served weapons would remove the need to play around with the number of rifle squads.

Yes, that seems to be the main problem of most wargames. I always thought that WITP defines a Rifle Squad as between 9 and 13 soldiers strong (depending on their nationalty) with LMG and light Mortar (or rather 1 light Mortar for every 3 squads in most cases) as well as their squad AT weapons (Bazooka, Boys ATR, PIAT, Type 97 ATR). But the medium and heavy MG's are not represented (or only partly as AA weapons) while medium mortars (in the 81mm - 90mm range) were included. Problem in representing them seems to come mainly from the US practice not even to include LMG at squad level because of the use of the BAR instead of a true LMG. But by not employing the MMG/HMG that were part of the organization of the armies represented in the game in the respective TOE's as we currently have them, especially the US forces seem to loose some firepower under the current system if one considers that of the 153 30cal Browning MMG present in a US Infantry Division (under the 15. Sept 1943 TOE) 81 were exclusively used in a ground role and that there were further 201 50cal Browning HMG present. But I don't know to what extend the 72 30cal Browning and 201 50cal Browning intended for AA defense were used in a ground role. Given the shortcomings of the BAR I think that most of them saw action as ground support weapons.

K

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: bstarr

You know, with all the gripes about Japan overpowering china early on it's a wonder no one has suggested eliminating some of these duplicate formations. I'm thinking particularly of the brigades that were formed into divisions in 1942. If these brigades were deleted there's no way Japan could go on any offensive until summer and by then they would be facing level nine fortifications. To make it work, base units would have to be given more inf squads to compensate for the China partisan rule.
bs


ps. It may even be better to replace the duplicate brigades with historic MP and/or chinese puppet units, strong enough to offset the partisan rule but too weak to influence a Jap offensive.

It was quite interesting to notice (by simply reducing rifle squad numbers at start of Scen. 15) that even with reduced numbers, both the Chinese and the Manchurian garrison limits were fulfilled. The main purpose should be to reduce Japanese offensive capablilty to better reflect historic values. Better than making the Chinese too strong because ostensibly they were not (and should not in the game) able to seriously threaten the Japanese position in China then.

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

We will be getting rid of many late war units in the Japanese OOB that were duplicates. Some will be the formed divisions, some will be the new ind. brigades that went into the new divisions. We will not be removing any mixed brigades from the at start OOB.

I am going to hurt a few peoples feelings here; China was never a problem. The only Japanese players who ran rough shod over China in 1.3 or later were facing opponents who had no idea how to fight a land war.
A good Chinese player can keep the Japanese from capturing any more than 1 base between '42 and '44.

The extra devices will still not be added.

Mike

You're right, it's surely right to say that China is not a big problem anymore since the strength of Chinese Corps was doubled. In both PBEM started earlier, I always saw my Chinese forces outnumbered by Japanese attackers.

But I fear that we could see this happen again if adding more rifle squads to Japanese formations to represent light mortars and MMG in an abstracted way (talking about the situation in China here)

[Kereguelen]

Have found some new hard data about the composition of Japanese regiments. At least the distribution of LMG's in standard (B-Type) and reinforced (A-Type) divisions is clear to me now:

Reinforced divisions had (only) 115 LMG in every regiment. The "surplus" LMG were not used to reinforce the regiments with additional squads (I was always sceptical about this but saw no other plausible explanation until now) but instead were employed by the divisional transport regiments.

Standard divisions had 112 LMG in every regiment but their transport regiments did not possess any.

Thus both types of divisions had the same number of regular rifle squads (108), the 5-7 additional LMG present at regimental level were used at the regimental HQ's.

The numbers and distribution of mortars are still not completely clear to me, but it seems that my earlier assumptions about this issue were (largely) correct and B-Type divisions did not possess any medium mortars in their regimental structures. But it seems that there were only 32 81mm Mortars present in regiments of reinforced divisions (instead of 36 as I assumed earlier in this thread).

By now even the 144 rifle squads I wanted to give to regiments in reinforced Japanese divisions seem to be too much.

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

We will be getting rid of many late war units in the Japanese OOB that were duplicates. Some will be the formed divisions, some will be the new ind. brigades that went into the new divisions. We will not be removing any mixed brigades from the at start OOB.

Mike

Hi,

don't know how much progress you made with this issue or what sources you possess, but it seems interesting to notice that many of the Independent Mixed Brigades we currently have in the game seem to have been formed much earlier than they appear in the game now (at least the 24th to 34th Ind. Mixed Brigades). [Btw I'm not sure if 23rd Ind. Mixed Bde that we have at Saigon in Dec 1941 existed then].

K

[bstarr]

I am going to hurt a few peoples feelings here; China was never a problem. The only Japanese players who ran rough shod over China in 1.3 or later were facing opponents who had no idea how to fight a land war.
A good Chinese player can keep the Japanese from capturing any more than 1 base between '42 and '44.

I sort of agree. In my last game the Japs didn't fair well at all in their opening offensive. In fact, you're right, they usually have just enough power to grab one base. The problem is when that one base is Changsha. A success here often collapses South China in a dominoe effect. Of course, if the problem is really Changsha then the problem might be solved by simply adding more beginning fortification there rather than revamping the entire theatre.

The extra devices will still not be added.

[&:]
what extra devices?

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: bstarr

The extra devices will still not be added.

[&:]
what extra devices?

I think he is talking about my proposal to add HMG (as infantry weapons) for all nations.

[Lemurs!]

True HMGs may be added; MMGs and light mortars will not be added.

For example a fairly standard Japanese company would have 3 platoons of infantry each with 4 squads of 15. Plus there would (usually) be a heavy weapons platoon consisting of 4 - 11 man sections with two MMGs
and 2 - 20mm AT rifles. I will include those 4 - 11 man sections as 3 squads as 15-17 men were fairly standard for Japanese squads.
A MMG is a light MG with a tripod. The 11 man unit with a MMG is essentially a squad with a slightly different purpose (fire support, defense) than a LMG equipped squad.

Plus, we just do not have slots to add more devices. I wish we could but they are not there.

Mike

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

True HMGs may be added; MMGs and light mortars will not be added.

That's exactly what I always wanted[:)]

A MMG is a light MG with a tripod. The 11 man unit with a MMG is essentially a squad with a slightly different purpose (fire support, defense) than a LMG equipped squad.

Mike

Not exactly. This was surely the case with German units (using the MG 34 and MG 42 in both roles). But the Japanese used the Type 92 and Type 99 7.7mm MGs as "heavy" weapon instead of their normal 6.5mm LMGs found in their rifle squads and the British used the .303cal Vickers MMG in the heavy role while using the Bren LMG at battalion and lower levels (because they had special MG battalions at divisional level). Again the US approach was completely different due to the presence of the BAR at squad level.

[Lemurs!]

That is all well and good but we are not making Steel Panthers, we are making a strategic/operational game. I have no way to represent HMGs that would diferentiate them from squads.

Mike

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

That is all well and good but we are not making Steel Panthers, we are making a strategic/operational game. I have no way to represent HMGs that would diferentiate them from squads.

Mike

It was never my intention to go down to Steel Panther or TOAOW level in this regard. The only reason for me to advocate the inclusion of MMG/HMG as seperate army weapons is because I want to see both their AA and their ground combat capabilities in the game. Considering that we currently have even Bren LMG's as AA weapons represented, this seemed adequate to me because representing them as rifle squads would eleminate their AA capabilities from the game.

[bstarr]

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

That is all well and good but we are not making Steel Panthers, we are making a strategic/operational game. I have no way to represent HMGs that would diferentiate them from squads.

Mike

It was never my intention to go down to Steel Panther or TOAOW level in this regard. The only reason for me to advocate the inclusion of MMG/HMG as seperate army weapons is because I want to see both their AA and their ground combat capabilities in the game. Considering that we currently have even Bren LMG's as AA weapons represented, this seemed adequate to me because representing them as rifle squads would eleminate their AA capabilities from the game.

Wouldn't using HMGs in AA role overstate their capabilities in that role. I mean, every time a mission was flown to that hex it would be taken for granted that every HMG was pointed skyward. Besides, in dense terrain it is almost impossible to mount a MG to cover ground approaches and mount them for AA.

[Lemurs!]

Update:

Matrix is smarter than all of us!
All of the garrison divisions TOEs are 5 battalions in size.
That means there are not too many japanese units. Cool.

Mike

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: bstarr

Wouldn't using HMGs in AA role overstate their capabilities in that role. I mean, every time a mission was flown to that hex it would be taken for granted that every HMG was pointed skyward. Besides, in dense terrain it is almost impossible to mount a MG to cover ground approaches and mount them for AA.

They're already used in that role in the game. But they only function as AA weapons, not for ground combats.