I lost in 4 days

[mc3744]

I tried my second PBEM as Japan, under 1.5, vs. Praetor

I managed to get three main CV badly damaged (vs. 0) in 4 days. Not to mention one entire amphibious TF sunken outside Palmyra, 4 units 20 transport ships.
Plus tons of lost aircraft!!

How good am I witht the japs? [;)] I have to say that my opponent also played very smart, all of his carrier air groups plus P-40 in Palmyra. It did the trick. [X(]

I lost a game in (4) days!! [:o]

I really feel bad, I guess there's no doubt I am an Allies Fanboy [:'(]

[wild_Willie2]

Just one word,


RECON..............

[Gen.Hoepner]

Once , playing as allies, i made the same trick. Results? all of the carrier groups gone for good. My Wilcats and Dountless could not pass through the 200 KB's CAP. Then 5 BBs hammered the place, closing the AF...then the invasion...could not move any of those fragments....
So..it's a very dangerous Trick.

But what did u do at Palmyra the 4th day of war?[X(]

[Praetorian]

I stumbled on his invasion force when running with the carriers from their initial positions. I actually set as rendevous for the 2 TFs a hex in which an invasion TF sailed that same day. I was lucky.
On the onter hand it was scary to see enemy TF's in your carrier rally point and wait to see on what you have stumbled on.

I didn’t think that the whole KB was present; he had 3 maybe 4 carriers only. And I brought the all p40 from pearl for air support.
It was only one strike against his carriers, both in the morning and in the afternoon, today. I lost huge numbers of aircraft to the zeros but the dive bombers got through.

I don’t know about the damage that I caused, but I guess it was enough.

[mogami]

Hi, Cowardly dog didn't quit on you did he? Make him fight the rest of the war till Tokyo is in burning ruins.

[Praetorian]

He did just that.
I guess is hard to accept losses as Japan. Only the allies must take it and soldier on...

[mc3744]

Ok, let's tell the whole story.

I decided not to go with PH strike (with my usual luck I would have lost more than gained).
Instead I split the KB in two KB to cover Wake and Palmyra landings.

Obviously the KB cannot get to Palmyra in one turn, while the US carriers can. I was counting on the wide ocean. Bad counting!
As it happened he set a rally point for his two carrier groups the same hex I set for my invasion TFs [X(] what are the chances for that?? (it was not the hex beside Palmyre you smart asses out there [;)])
My KB was stil far. When it arrived (on the second day) it had bad weather and he kept pounding my amph TF while I was watching, third day same story. On the forth he moved all his planes on Palmyra with the P-40 coming from Pearl, results:
Zuikako and Kaga sys damage 50+ and counting, Hiryu 40+ and counting.
Meanwhile I lost 3 INF and one ENG, plus 15-10 ships and the 3 carriers.

I also realized that my initial invasion plan was based on the 1.4 ground combat system. It's now so much more difficult to dislodge the enemy. In Rabaul I have 10:1 troops ratio (with abundant supplies) and still I get 0:1 attack. Not to mention other landing sites like San Marcelino or Mersing where I only have 3 to 4 times his troops.

Hence I gave up. I mean I haven't even started and I'm already short of 3 CV, where am I going with this?
I'm not good with the Japs ... and with a situation like this, no way!

If it was January or later I'd keep up, but we just started and I don't feel I have the strenght to keep fighting.

I lost, he got me. Waht can I say?

[mc3744]

... and don't you call me cowardly dog!!!!!!

[;)]

[CapAndGown]

I would have resigned as well, I think. Too much time to invest when you know it is all going downhill right from the start.

[mc3744]

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

I would have resigned as well, I think. Too much time to invest when you know it is all going downhill right from the start.

Thanks Cap!! [&o]

[Roger Neilson]

I too have resigned in a game against Praetorian, by the end of December he had intecepted and sunk several of my invasion fleets and I was in deep deep trouble.

I reckoned I was not giving him any challenge - plus what is the point of pursuing a game for the duration when you don't stand a chance within a few weeks as japan?

Roger

[Sharkosaurus rex]

It's stupid plans like these that make me roll my eyes. If it worked:" I captured Palmyra and Canton Island on the third day of the war!!! I"M THE GREATEST GENERAL IN THE WORLD!!! I want to have seven stars on my collar."

[Roger Neilson]

The problem for Japan is that they don't get replacements... so there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Unless the Allies get roundly walloped they are bound long term to outproduce and out recruit. In one of our encounters you got 40% of my carrier pilots......... that's not easily replaceable.

Roger

[Praetorian]

Yes, I guess I did.
Yet you allowed that, the attack by KB on Soerabaja without any fighter escort, against 100+ fighter aircraft from DEI and Singapore.

I am a little upset by the fact that if the allies suffer horrendous losses then its ok, no problem, historically correct. Yet if the Japanese player suffers losses, he quits.

I guess Tojo should have learned and call it quit at Guadalcanal.

Well, life, I guess it's hard to play once you go downhill.

Mike

[mogami]

Hi, I have lost most of my CV in several games and it is not even 43 yet. No intention of quiting. The objective changes after a disaster. Now with less, you must do more. Even more fun playing then before.

[mc3744]

As Allies you get pounded (I did several times), but you always stand a chance. Or at least it feels so.
With Japan you MUST have a good start, or at least have very limited losses, because it only gets worse.

I only surrendered once as Allies, in a May 1942 campaign. I was totally inexperienced and if I went back today I would not surrender, not even that time.

Japan is a different ball game.

To get Palmyra it's not something that would qualify anybody as the greates player (I'll get it next time, you can bet on it [;)]), not to get it however and loosing the whole invasion TF and 3 carriers qualifies for defeat - IMHO of course.

[Toast]

If some disaster befell my forces, I would only consider ethical to quit if my opponent wanted to. In one of my PBEM as the Allies I lost the Enterprise on the second day of the war because I did not shift it's route further south and the KB made a bee-line for Wake and ran into that scenario. My opponent did offer to restart but i said no, if a disaster befalls my forces because of a bad decision on my part or a lucky break on my opponents part or a combination of both, then I continue to play and let my opponent glory in his greater skill/luck. But he did offer and I could have accepted without feeling too bad.

If a Japanese player took advantage of the first turn movement bonus to perform unrealistic operations and they backfire on him and he then quits, I would be pissed. If I offered to restart and he accepted that would be one thing, but to quit because he took a risk and it failed.

I know the Japanese cannot take catastrophic losses and hope to win, but any Japanese player has to be aware of that and committ to play at least until Automatic Victory conditions are met. Especially if he is using "gamey" tactics and invading Palmyra and Canton Islands in the first week of the war!

[mc3744]

Hey Toast,

I obviously disagree with you.
Mainly for two reasons.

1) I play for fun, it's odd but that's what I do. When I loose the fun, well I don't feel like playing. I guess I'm not a chivalrous knight ... hell I don't even have an armour [;)]

2) Despite my odd tendency to play for fun, I understand that when playing WitP your opponent too puts a lot of hours in it and the decision to quit should therefore be partially agreed by both parties (althought I've been quit on without my consent as well and I survived the offense [:D]). That's why I said that if we were even only a couple of months into the war I would not have surrendered. But on the 4th day the effort we both put is minimal compared to the lenght of the game and my fun is gone.

3) I know I said 2 [;)]. My opponent knew I was a rookie with the Japs, he is not (definitely not!). Hence the result.

4) I don't find gamey going for Central Pacific, if I did I wouldn't have. I did not attack PH to go for Central Pacific. I guess that more than balances it.

[medicff]

ORIGINAL: mc3744

As Allies you get pounded (I did several times), but you always stand a chance. Or at least it feels so.
With Japan you MUST have a good start, or at least have very limited losses, because it only gets worse.

I only surrendered once as Allies, in a May 1942 campaign. I was totally inexperienced and if I went back today I would not surrender, not even that time.

Japan is a different ball game.

To get Palmyra it's not something that would qualify anybody as the greates player (I'll get it next time, you can bet on it [;)]), not to get it however and loosing the whole invasion TF and 3 carriers qualifies for defeat - IMHO of course.

I too have quit before due to inexperience. But to say I will be real aggressive and take HUGE chances to get an upperhand and if they don't work out I will quit is not quite the same thing. You should play to win but staying within one's means of protection and delaying operations a couple of days or even months is less risky but will make a better and LONGER game.[:D]

[Roger Neilson]

My fault entirely I agree, I took a risk with my forces. The point I was making, and my only point really is that if as Japan you lose high quality stuff early on then there is no hope of getting into anything like a winning position as there are no breaks later on. In another game I have taken out all the Allied CVs but I know the clock is ticking and more of them will appear. How would the Allies feel if after losing a major part of their inventory they knew that they were never to get replacements? Its kind of a reverse Midway really - how would Japan have felt if they knew after Midway that some new, bigger CVs would be with them in a year or less?

I quit because I felt you were way way too good for me.... and therefore I wasn't putting any sort of challenge your way. I was right!

I got a lesson that is reminiscent of once many years ago when I was fencing - my opponent killed me several times without me being able to counter his moves. I accepted that I needed to find someone my own level! Hopefully I have learned a bit from the experiences.

In another game I have also quit because it is apparent that from that point onwards the formula of air bombardment, shore bombardment, invasion, improve airfield, base air on it - repeat was coming and there was nothing I could do to stop it. I wonder in that situation how many allied players still look at each move with anticipation? Surely there comes a time when it becomes obvious there is only one end to the process and life is too short to flog a dead horse? I can only sustain a specific amount of time on these games from the need to have a real life... I reserve the right to put a game out of its misery once it is apparent it has no life left in it.

I probably am starting up a major row now!

Roger
[8|]

Roger