I lost in 4 days

[mogami]

Hi, Funny how disaster lurks right where you cross the line. If you stick to normal turn 1 limits your pretty safe from disaster.
1. Stay in aircover
2. Have escort TF
easy and safe.

Moving TF into unpatroled waters. What is the attraction with Palmyra? What does it do for Japan except become an early site for Allied amph training excercises.
One Japanese opponent ploted my CV with his turn 1 move sank Enterprise. I never made a comment about it. THe Japanese never have to leave protection of landbased
A6M2. There is no rush, really theres not. Better to do it right the first time then have to go back and do it over. (I'm not talking about turn 1) Plan Operations correctly. Plan like you have no existing knowledge of history and must prepare for every possible event.
Plan like the enemy will be waiting in force.

[mc3744]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, Funny how disaster lurks right where you cross the line. If you stick to normal turn 1 limits your pretty safe from disaster.
1. Stay in aircover
2. Have escort TF
easy and safe.

Moving TF into unpatroled waters. What is the attraction with Palmyra? What does it do for Japan except become an early site for Allied amph training excercises.
One Japanese opponent ploted my CV with his turn 1 move sank Enterprise. I never made a comment about it. THe Japanese never have to leave protection of landbased
A6M2. There is no rush, really theres not. Better to do it right the first time then have to go back and do it over. (I'm not talking about turn 1) Plan Operations correctly. Plan like you have no existing knowledge of history and must prepare for every possible event.
Plan like the enemy will be waiting in force.

You are quite right.
The problem is that I played one game with Japan so far. And never against the AI.
I guess I have learnt now.

I didn't feel like I was doing anything particularly bold, obviously I was wrong.

[EUBanana]

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson

My fault entirely I agree, I took a risk with my forces. The point I was making, and my only point really is that if as Japan you lose high quality stuff early on then there is no hope of getting into anything like a winning position as there are no breaks later on. In another game I have taken out all the Allied CVs but I know the clock is ticking and more of them will appear. How would the Allies feel if after losing a major part of their inventory they knew that they were never to get replacements? Its kind of a reverse Midway really - how would Japan have felt if they knew after Midway that some new, bigger CVs would be with them in a year or less?

I quit because I felt you were way way too good for me.... and therefore I wasn't putting any sort of challenge your way. I was right!

I got a lesson that is reminiscent of once many years ago when I was fencing - my opponent killed me several times without me being able to counter his moves. I accepted that I needed to find someone my own level! Hopefully I have learned a bit from the experiences.

In another game I have also quit because it is apparent that from that point onwards the formula of air bombardment, shore bombardment, invasion, improve airfield, base air on it - repeat was coming and there was nothing I could do to stop it. I wonder in that situation how many allied players still look at each move with anticipation? Surely there comes a time when it becomes obvious there is only one end to the process and life is too short to flog a dead horse? I can only sustain a specific amount of time on these games from the need to have a real life... I reserve the right to put a game out of its misery once it is apparent it has no life left in it.

I probably am starting up a major row now!

Roger
[8|]

Roger

Well... unless as Japan you have won the game by end of 1942, then you know the Allies are going to win. So going by that every Jap player may as well quit on 1st Jan 1943, assuming they didnt catch the autovictory.

Thats cruel on the Allied player though, who has just sat through an entire year of getting slapped around while looking at CV Essex and drooling. In 1943 it is the Allied player who gets to plan the offensives, and the Japanese player who does what he can to blunt them - the roles are reversed.

[Praetorian]

And I was so looking forward at invading Tokyo in 1943. At least one should play and give the opponent the chance to have fun. It's all laugh and fun as the Japanese till someone looses an eye... [:D]

[Toast]

I play for fun too and if your opponent doesn't mind, no harm no foul. And quitting after just a few turns play would not really be a big deal to me.

I don't neccessarily think it is gamey to go after the Central Pacific, actually I think it is a smart move for any Japanese player. But I do consider it gamey to use the first turn movement bonus to position my forces to do that. THe first turn movement bonus was put in place to allow the PH attack to occur and to use it to move anything but the KB seems for gamey to me. But that is also open to interpretation. That is way I always play with Historical First Turns on of play the Dec 8th turn to avoid such conflicts.

I also realize the position of the Japnese player is very precarious and any disaster has very long term consequnces for the Japanese layer (my othr PBEM is as the Japanese and I am VERY cautious with my carriers, problaby too cautious). AS an Allied player if the Japanese player ran over me for six months and then had a Midway and wanted to quit, I would never play with the person again. But a restart in December probably wouldn't bother me in the least.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, I have lost most of my CV in several games and it is not even 43 yet. No intention of quiting. The objective changes after a disaster. Now with less, you must do more. Even more fun playing then before.

I agree with Mogami wholeheartedly on this. I never give up for game reasons (hate postponing for personal reasons but we'll be off and running soon enough). What's the point? I bet the Jap player in this example is going to find it hard to get a PBEM opponent as a result of his exit.

[Toast]

Especially since he posted his resignation on this forum.[:D]

I would not hold one PBEM as a rookie Jap player against him and would start a PBEM. I think it is only a problem when the game has progressed for several months and a player quits when things go bad.

[Praetorian]

Actually, we already agreed on a restart and I am waiting for his first turn.

I understand that it is difficult to loose the war in 4 days and go on. He did loose some other things, not only the carriers, about 30 AP's ships in all and he has a ratio on 1:1 in aircraft losses with me, due to some hit and run air tactics. Loosing 50+ IJN pilots in several days is also bad.

Mike

[Toast]

Wow, to have stopped the Japanese Juggernaut early against tow opponents and forcing them to resign is impressive. Have you considered posting an AAR. I would be very interested to know how you play and glean pointers from your games. Great job! [:D]

[rroberson]

still doesnt beat my record...I lost KB on december 8. .

[CapAndGown]

ORIGINAL: rroberson

still doesnt beat my record...I lost KB on december 8. .

How in the world did that happen?! [X(][&:]

[RalfBHV]

You give up?

When i play as japan, the allied must stay at tokyo, to bring me the order for capitulation. Not earlier!

Nessaja

[Tom Hunter]

Suggested ending a game to a Japanese opponent who was losing to me in Java. Really losing, not just failing to take the place.

I play for fun, I am not convinced that kicking a new Japanese player around for several years of real time would actually be fun.

I suspect the same thing will happen at some point in the games I am in now. Once the result is clear all the logistics may start to look more like work than play.

I also think the experience of the player matters. I consider myself pretty good at Allies and it would be poor play if I resigned them in the face of a major defeat and possible loss of the game. Likewise Ron and Mogami have no real excuse. But some one who is not very farmilar with the game who screws things up in the first few days is a different story.

If ending the game early is agreable to both sides its fine, its only a problem when one side leaves without the others permission.

[RalfBHV]

I play for fun, I am not convinced that kicking a new Japanese player around for several years of real time would actually be fun.

If ending the game early is agreable to both sides its fine, its only a problem when one side leaves without the others permission.

That´s my Game!


To mc3744

Now let us see the other side. Your Plan was an success, you take Palmyra an Wake I., you sunk the 2 US Carrier and take heavy damadge to the other US Fleet. And your opponent say: "I have lost, game over".
Whats your answer?

Nessaja

[Roger Neilson]

As the allied player such a loss is an irritation, not terminal.

However it may also be that his morale is broken (personal not game forces). There are many examples from the past where a superior force was beaten by convincing itself it was beaten - in fact much of warfare is to do just that. So an Allied player who gives up with such conditions is morally beaten though obviously not physically beaten.

Have you never been in a situation where you felt the other guy was just way way too good for you?

I would be very surprised if an Allied player gave up on such a small loss though - what percentage of his overall CV forces in the war has he actually lost in your hypothetical situation?

Roger

[PBYPilot]

Too bad a Japanese loss doen't require the traditional ritual on the part of the Japanese player [:D]

PBYPilot

[kaiser73]

ORIGINAL: mc3744

Hey Toast,

I obviously disagree with you.
Mainly for two reasons.

1) I play for fun, it's odd but that's what I do. When I loose the fun, well I don't feel like playing. I guess I'm not a chivalrous knight ... hell I don't even have an armour [;)]

That makes you a very bad opponent in a PBEM. The fun should be playing the game, in different conditions. Even playing as Japan after losing some CV at start should be fun.

If you mean fun=winning then:
1) you better stop playing Japan. Cause disasters always come early or later. and unlikely with allies, as Japan you can't recover or wait for more stuff.
2) it just means that in 6 months, when you lose your CV in a battle (if you lose) you going to quit again.

[RalfBHV]

Have you never been in a situation where you felt the other guy was just way way too good for you?

Yes, i have situations like that. But the games continue.

It´s a high risk for the jap. to split the KB, and to reconfigure the warplan in that way. I think, his plan was the follow: Catch the Lexington by Wake I. and catch the Enterprise by Palmyra. And...[X(]

BTW , he say 3 Carrier was damadge, not sunk. With the remaing carriers 3 CV + 1 CVL, he has a strong force to beat the allied.

Nessaja

[mc3744]

Wow

I did not immagine I would have stirred up so many angry players [X(]
I wasn't under the impression of having committed such a mortal sin.

Let me give you some answers.

Again, I play for fun. Fun it's not only 'winning'. Not having a chance, however it's not fun either.
I'm bad with Japan, I played once only (plus 10 days against Darksky), and never against the AI.
If I start loosing - badly - when I'm supposed to be at my strongest point, what's going to happen next?
I loose heart. Sorry I'm weak. Feel free to keep kicking me. Enjoy.

As to what I'd do on the other side you can read the AAR 'Italian job 1' where I lost tons of ships and carriers. In the end it was Japan to surrender (I think it was August '42).

Believe it or not if I was on the other side I would complain only after a couple of months (If I didn't agree on the strategic evaluation). Four days of game? I don't consider them such a huge waste of time.

I'm playing several PBEM and I already surrendered three times (please keep kicking).

As Japan: July '42 vs. General Billy
As Allies: July '42 (May '42 Campaign) vs. General Billy
As Japan: December 11th, vs. Praetor.
I played and finished (opponents surrendered) two more PBEM as Allies.
I'm playing another 5, one of them since August 2005.
I also finished 5 PBEM at UV.

So far every one of my opponents has wanted to re-play with me. Maybe I'm not so such a bad PBEM player ... maybe.

[mc3744]

ORIGINAL: Nessaja

It´s a high risk for the jap. to split the KB, and to reconfigure the warplan in that way. I think, his plan was the follow: Catch the Lexington by Wake I. and catch the Enterprise by Palmyra. And...[X(]

You know what I'm pissed!! [:@]
If I wanted to go carrier hunting I would have said so.

You assume you know what I want to do? [&:]
Who the hell are you? What the hell do you think you are??? [:@]
Do I know you? Do you know me??
I have no need to come here and post bullshit. Actually I didn't even had the need to post about my defeat.

Probably you come to post bullshit therefore you 'think' the others do the same. Guess what? You are WRONG.

Anyway I'm done with you smart asses. What is this a tribunal? Am I supposed to be judged for the way I play??
If posting about the way we play turns in a public execution, well it's not for me.

I'm done here.