LB30 in CHS

[akdreemer]

Just where are all these LB30's coming from?? The US probably used a handful, some 15 being sent to Java. Almost the entire production run of LB30's were sent to the British for use by coastal command. This plain single handedly unbalances the early game start. The forum quibbles about the number of B-17's, then along comes the LB30. Shoot, I have about 10 or so squdrons equipped and it is only late Jan 1941. The follwong excerpts are from:
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher2/b24.html

B24A/LB30

The initial production version of the Liberator was the B-24A, 38 examples of which had been ordered in August of 1939. Serials were 40-2349/2386.

With the fall of France, the order for the first 20 of these planes (40-2349/2368) was diverted from the USAAC for delivery to the Royal Air Force under the designation LB-30B.

The twenty LB-30Bs were delivered to the RAF in mid-1941 as Liberator I and were serialed AM910/AM929. They were powered by R-1830-33 engines. Like the YB-24s before them, the B-24As were delivered to the RAF at Montreal in Canada for transfer to England. The LB-30Bs differed from the USAAF B-24As in having equipment that was specifically intended to meet British requirements. For example, they were delivered with the standard RAF defensive armament of six flexible 0.30-inch Browning machine guns, two in the tail, one in the nose, one in each waist position, and one in the belly position.

The RAF Liberator I was the first of the type to see combat. The long range and heavy bombload made the Liberator I a natural choice for RAF Coastal Command for use in its battles against the U-boat menace. Upon arrival in England, they were extensively modified to make them suitable for the antisubmarine role. They were equipped with early versions of ASV radars, which included a thicket of Yagi aerials protruding from the nose and the wings, four stickle-back mast antennae sticking upward from the ventral fuselage, and a set of towel-rail type antennae attached to the sides of the rear fuselage. The aircraft looked not unlike a flying porcupine. For attacks on surfaced U-boats, Liberator Is were fitted with a pack for four forward-firing 20-mm Hispano cannon underneath the forward fuselage. These modifications were carried out by Heston Aircraft Ltd. The normal operating crew was seven.

The Liberator I first equipped No. 120 Squadron of RAF Coastal Command based at Nutt's Corner, Belfast in June of 1941. With a normal operating range of 2400 miles, the Liberator I nearly doubled the effective range of Britain's maritime reconnaissance forces. They were the first machines with the ability to close the Atlantic Gap, where U-boats had previously been able to operate with immunity from air attack.

The Liberator Is served with No. 120 Squadron until December of 1943, when they were replaced by later Liberator marks. Liberator Is are credited with at least 8 U-boat kills.

Three of the Liberator Is (AM915, AM918, and AM920) were operated by the BOAC to carry priority passengers and to ferry crews across the Atlantic. On January 24/25, 1942, AM918 with civil registry G-AGDR flew nonstop from Hurn to Cairo. However, on its return trip on February 15, it was shot down by mistake by Allied fighters. Surviving examples were returned to the RAF in January of 1945. AM920 was converted to civilian configuration for BOAC in 1946 under the registration G-AHYB

After the diversion of serials 40-2349/2368 to the RAF as LB-30Bs, the USAAF eventually made up the deficit by having 20 additional Liberators delivered. By this time, the production model was the B-24D. However, these B-24Ds were allocated the same serials (40-2349/2368) that were used by the diverted B-24As. Once again the same serial numbers were allocated to two different batches of aircraft, which led to an endless amount of confusion.

Of the remainder of the B-24A order, only 40-2369/2377 were destined to actually be built as B-24As. The rest (40-2378/2386) were delivered as B-24Cs.

Immediately after Pearl Harbor, the USAAF requisitioned 75 of the Liberator IIs from the RAF order. For some reason, they were carried on USAAF rosters under the designation LB-30 (the original export designation for the Liberator) rather than as B-24, and they retained their RAF serial numbers. Liberator IIs diverted to the USAAF included AL604/609, AL611/613, AL615, AL617, AL618, AL621/623, AL626, AL628, AL631/634, AL637, AL639/641. I am not sure if this is a complete list.



Fifteen USAAF LB-30 bombers were deployed in Java in early 1942 to reinforce the B-17-equipped 19th Bombardment Group in a vain attempt to stem the Japanese advance. These USAAF LB-30s were hastily re-equipped with a Martin power turret armed with two 0.50-inch machine guns in the dorsal position behind the wing instead of the four-gun Boulton-Paul turret of the RAF version. The tail position was fitted with a pair of hand-held 0.50-inch machine guns mounted behind sliding doors. Single hand-held 0.50-inch machine guns were installed in the nose, ventral tunnel, and each waist position. The tunnel gun was located on the belly of the rear fuselage, and pointed in the aft direction. It was fired downward through the rear entrance hatch. Small scanning windows for the gun were located along the lower sides of the fuselage. The Dark Earth and Dark Green over Black camouflage scheme of the RAF was retained, but the roundels were painted over with USAAF insignia.

The Java-based LB-30s would be the first US-flown Liberators to see action. One was lost in a crash in the USA before delivery, another ditched en route, and a third was delayed as a result of damage incurred in an accident in the USA. Those Liberators which did reach the Java front participated in numerous attacks against Japanese targets in the Celebes, in Sumatra, and participated in raids against shipping during the Japanese invasion of Bali. By late February, the position of Allied forces in Java had become untenable, and the surviving LB-30s had to be evacuated to Australia. Two LB-30s survived in Australia until 1944 after having been converted to C-87 transport configuration.

Serials of LB-30

AL503/AL667 Consolidated Liberator II
AL503 crashed into San Diego Bay during acceptance flight, killing all aboard
including Consolidated chief test pilot William Wheatley.
AL504 converted to *Commando*, VIP transport for the Prime Minister. Lost over
Atlantic between Azores and Ottawa Mar 27, 1945. The Prime Minister was
not onboard.
AL505 nosewheel collapsed on landing at Boscombe Down Aug 17 1942 and DBR
AL506 caught fire on approach due to bomb fouling doors and damaging fuel lines and
crashlanded at Brindisi Sep 25, 1943
AL507 turned over to Britain Mar 25, 1943. To BOAS Aug 1, 1944 as G-AHYC.
Bellylanded Heathfield Oct 2, 1946.
AL508 (7th BG, 11th BS) arrived in Java from Darwin via Pacific route Jan 26, 1942.
Based at Jogia from Jan 27, 1942. Crashed at Essendon airfield May 18, 1942
on takeoff. Condemned May 15, 1943
AL509 nosewheel collapsed on landing at Aqir Aug 19, 1942 and DBR
AL510 to civil registry Sep 19, 1946 as G-AHZP. Crashed Speke, CofA Aug 12, 1946
during flight from London to Rekhavik with Iceland Airways
AL511 shot down by Bf 110, Tripoli, May 3, 1942
AL512 hit snowdrift on night takeoff and engine caught fire, Gander Dec 27, 1943
AL513 forcelanded on ferry flight 15 m N of Rota, Spain and destroyed by crew Dec 15, 1942
AL514 to Britain Mar 10, 1942. To BOAC as G-AGJP
AL515 arrived via Pacific Route via McDill Fl, Hamilton CA, Hickam Hi, Palmyra IS, Canton
Is, Nausori (Fiji), Garbutt(Townsville Qld), Darwin (NT) to Malang, Java. Last LB30A
out of Java on Mar 2, 1942 in 7 hour flight to Broome, landed, refuelled and flew on
to RAAF Pearce before the Broome Raid the next day. Returned to Broome to evacuate
survivors of Raid to RAAF Pearce. Left RAAF Pearce to RAAF Laverton Vic Mar 6, 1942 taking
8Hours 20 mins. Surviving 3 Pacific based LB30A's were established into a flight within
the 435th BS/19thBG at Garbutt, Townsville. AL515 eventually went on to bigger things,
but bellied in at Milne Bay airstrip on the Aug 20, 1942. Was stripped, but a week later
was strafed by Japanese and destroyed on Aug 27, 1942. Condemned Aug 28, 1942
AL516 to BOAC as G-AZHP. Overshot landing and crashed in sea, Gibraltar Oct 31, 1942.
AL517 to Australia as VIP transport ("Dawson Air Lines") Oct 26, 1944. Later
G-AGKU with BOAC. LostDec 1947.
AL518 sold to Scottish Aviation for spares Sep 19, 1946
AL519 flew into hill after night takeoff 5 m SW of Ballykelly Nov 3, 1942
AL520 hit hill descending in cloud on ferry flight 120 mi ESE of Amman, Transjordan
Dec 30, 1942
AL521 to USAAF. Lost in Japanese raid on Darwin, Australia Feb 19, 1942.
AL522 to BOAC as G-AHYD Oct 1, 1944
AL523 crashed on takeoff from RAF North Front Field, Gibraltar Jul 4, 1943, killing the exiled Polish Prime Minister
General Wladyslaw Sikorski. Only the pilot survived. This crash is shrouded in mystery and intrigue. Throughout World War II Sikorski tried to organize the Polish Army and constantly negotiated with Churchill and Roosvelt to circumvent any appeasement deals between the Allies, Russia, and Germany which would come at Poland's expense. By this time, the Free Poles had found out about the Katyn Massacre, and thus terminated relations with the Soviet Union on April 26, 1943. As Sikorski was the most prestigious leader of the Polish exiles, his death was a severe setback to the Polish cause, and was certainly highly convenient for Stalin. It was in some ways also convenient for the western Allies, who were finding the Polish issue a stumbling-block in their efforts to preserve good relations with Stalin. This has given rise to persistent suggestions that Sikorski's death was not accidental. This has never been proved.
AL524 (c/n 22) to BOAC Jan 31, 1946 as G-AGTJ. To Qantas Mar 1946. To civil registry as VH-EAJ. SOC Nov 1950. Broken up at Mascot, NSW.
AL525 swung on takeoff, hit pile of stones and undercarriage leg collapsed, Lydda Nov 23, 1943. To maintenance as 4218M
AL526 MIA from flare dropping mission over Burma Apr 6, 1943
AL527 to USAAF. Wrecked near March Field, CA Jul 1, 1942 when crashed and burned after takeoff
AL528 to Britain Apr 3, 1942. To BOAC as G-AGEM. Crashed on landing in icing conditions,
Charlottetown, PEI Feb 22, 1946
AL529 to Britain Mar 25, 1942. To BOAC as G-AHYE.
AL530 crashed May 31, 1944 and SOC
AL531 undercarriage jammed and crashlanded at Karachi Nov 4, 1942. Not repared and SOC Jun 2, 1943
AL532 to C-87 with USAAF. To RFC at Kingman Oct 5, 1946
AL533 to USAAF. Arrived at Darwin Jan 30, 1942, to Jogia, Java. w/o in combat when strafed and destroyed
at Jogjiakarka Mar 1, 1942.
AL534 MIA at Benghazi Jul 23, 1942
AL535 to USAAF. Damaged by fighters and force landed on beach at small island of Greater Mesalembo Jan 18, 1942.
Crew picked up by PBY Jan 25, 1942. First USAAF Liberator combat loss.
AL536 NFT Apr 27, 1944
AL537 (159 Sqdn) shot down by AAA near Tobruk Aug 24, 1942
AL538 overshot landing in bad visibility while trying to locate Lyneham, Clyffe Pypard
Oct 18, 1942 and DBR.
AL539 to USAAF. Crashed Jun 8, 1943. Condemned Jun 9, 1943.
AL540 crashed Lydda Nov 18, 1943. NFD, SOC Jan 1, 1944
AL541 (c/n 39) to BOAC Oct 8, 1945 as G-AGTI. To Qantas Nov 29, 1945. To civil registry as VH-EAI.
SOC Aug 4, 1950. Broken up at Mascot, NSW.
AL542 to Britain. Nosewheel collapsed in heavy landing at Heliopolis Jul 3, 1942. Not repaired.
AL543 to USAAF. Surveyed May 29, 1943
AL544 damaged by fighters near Toungoo and crashlanded at Chittagong Apr 19, 1943
AL545 caught fire in hangar at Lyneham May 7, 1944
AL546 wing collapsed after engine fire and crashed Race Farm, Lytchett Minster, Dorset Mar 24, 1942
AL547 (c/n 45) to BOAC as G-AGKU Jul 24, 1944. To Qantas Aug 14, 1944.
Nosewheel collapsed on landing at Guildford, WA Oct 16, 1944. Broken up at Mascot, NSW Jun 1947.
AL548 MIA (Maleme) Oct 28, 1942
AL549 brakes failed while taxying and ran into ditch at Polebrook Apr 23, 1942 and DBR
AL550 ditched off Sharjah Sep 8, 1944
AL551 SOC Apr 26, 1945
AL552 undercarriage collapsed in heavy landing at night, Fayid Jul 2, 1942. Later
to BOAC as G-AHZR, and later F-OASS.
AL553 SOC Jul 31, 1942
AL554 ran out of fuel on return from Tobruk and forcelanded in sand dunes in Palestine Jul 19, 1942
AL555 SOC Apr 26, 1945
AL556 hit obstruction on landing and undercarriage collapsed at Thruxton Jan 26, 1942
AL557 to 224 Sqdn, then 120 Sqdn, then 1445Flt, then 159 Sqdn. LAter G-AGZI with
BOAC and Scottish Aviation. Later SX-DAA *Maid of Athens* with Hellenic Airways.
Later with Morris-Knudson as N9981F, then N68735, then N92MK. Crashed at Kalikat
Creek, Alaska in 1958. Planned recovery by Alaska Aviation Heritage Museum.
AL558
AL559
AL560 sold to Scottish Aviation for spares Sep 19, 1946. Also listed as
crashing after engine failure Aug 12, 1943 at Salbani
AL561
AL562
AL563 sold to Scottish Aviation for spares Sep 19, 1946
AL564 undercarriage failed during night landing with 178 Sqdn. Tire burst on landing
Apr 15, 1943 and undercarriage collapsed.
AL565 MIA Bari Apr 27, 1943.
AL566 flew first Liberator bombing mission Jan 10, 1942. Shot dow by AAA
Benghazi Jul 15, 1942.
AL567 to USAAF. Destroyed on ground by strafing attack on Jogiakarta Feb 22, 1942.
AL568 to USAAF. To RFC at Walnut Ridge Jan 13, 1946.
AL569 w/o Nov 1941 in landing when ran into drainage ditch.
AL570 to USAAF. To RFC at Walnut Ridge Jan 9, 1946
AL571 to BOAC as G-AGZH
AL572 to USAAF. Hit by bomb in hangar Jogiakarta Mar 1, 1942.
AL573 wrecked Jan 1, 1942 at MacDill Field when gear unlocked during landing rollout.
Repaired. Became transport in Australia as VHCBM. To RFC at Walnut Ridge Jan 17, 1946.
AL574 to RFC at Walnut Ridge Jan 15, 1946. Also have this one as crashlanding with No 108
Squadron at Fayid, Egypt Feb 22, 1942.
AL575 to USAAF. Landing gear would not extend, crew bailed out Jan 2, 1942, San Diego, CA
AL576 to USAAF. Arrived via Africa Jan 12, 1942 at Malang, Java. Later forced landed at
Makassar, Jan 7, 1942. crew picked up by US Navy PBY and returned to Malang, Java.
AL577 flew into high ground in bad weather, Jenkinstown, Eire Jun 16, 1942
AL578 SOC May 30, 1946
AL579 sold Sep 19, 1946
AL580 sold Sep 19, 1946
AL581 damaged in India Mar 22,1943, and SOC.
AL582 undershot landing, swung and undercarriage collapsed 2 m S of Ghemines Jun 1, 1943 and DBR
AL583 to USAAF. To RFC at Walnut Ridge Jan 15, 1946. To civil
registry as NL4674N, later RX-102.
AL584 flew into mountain on flight in snowstorm, Atun, France Nov 14, 1944.
11 killed.
AL585 sold Sep 19, 1946
AL586 to USAAF. To RFC at Kingman Jan 9, 1946
AL587 missing between Gibraltar and Lyneham Mar 23, 1943.
AL588 lost tail unit in turn and crashed 1/2 m E of Marston Moor Aug 5, 1942
AL589 off inventory by Feb 1, 1944. Also reported lost on raid from
Midway to Wake Island Jun 7, 1942. MACR 600. General Clarence
L. Tinker was on board.
AL590 to Britain Jul 20, 1942. Ran sort of fuel and belly landed in bad weather near Cazes,
Morocco Dec 8, 1943
AL591 to BOAC. Ran out of fuel and crashlanded 10 mi NE of Gander Feb 9, 1943.
AL592 wrecked May 8, 1942 at Westover AAF, MA, repaired. To Britain as G-AYHF May 4, 1942.
AL593 to Britain Jan Nov 22, 1942. Returned to US Jan 24, 1945. Returned to Britain Jan 18, 1946.
AL594 to RFC at Kingman Oct 8, 1946
AL595 to Britain Apr 20, 1942. Flew into ground on night approach 1/2 m SE of Lyneham Nov 6, 1942.
AL596 to USAAF. Wrecked at Westover Field Jan 31, 1943, converted to ground training aircraft Feb 5, 1943.
AL597 to BOAC Mar 23, 1944, for spares source
AL598 to USAAF. to RFC at Kingman Oct 6, 1946
AL599 to Britain Apr 19, 1942. Sold Sep 19, 1946
AL600 to Britain Apr 20, 1942. SOC Nov 8, 1943
AL601 to USAAF. Crashed into hill Jun 4, 1942, Hamilton Field, CA. 14 on board killed.
AL602 to USAAF. Wrecked at Kodiak, Alaska May 22, 1942 when overshot landing and fell into ravine.
AL603 to Britain Apr 21, 1942. To BOAC Aug 8, 1944 as G-AHYG
AL604 to USAAF. Exploded in midair north of Rio Hato AB, Canal Zone Jun 15, 1943. 2 killed, 3
parachuted to safety.
AL605 to USAAF. Wrecked in landing accident Jun 17, 1943, Rio Hato AB, Canal Zone when landing gear collapsed.
AL606 to USAAF. Ditched between Palmyra and Canton Islands Jan 31, 1942. Only 2 survived. Condemned Oct 31, 1944.
AL607 wrecked 5 mi S of Hanna, WY, SOC Jun 27, 1942.
AL608 to USAAF. Used to evacuate General Wavell to Ceylon Feb 26, 1942. Condemned Oct 31, 1944
AL609 to USAAF. Destroyed in strafing attack Mar 1, 1942.
AL610 to Britain Apr 28, 1942. Used as spares, then rebuilt as transport for CVAC.
AL611 to USAAF. Salvaged Jul 31, 1945
AL612 to USAAF. Damaged Jan 12, 1942, broken left wing on landing. Salvaged for parts at Malang.
destroyed in strafing attack Feb 27, 1942.
AL613 to USAAF. To RFC at Kingman Jan 9, 1946
AL614 to Britain May 8, 1942.
AL615 to USAAF. Condemned Oct 7, 1944.
AL616 to Britain Apr 22, 1942. Wrecked the same day at Montreal, Canada but repaired.
AL617 to USAAF. Salvaged Jul 31, 1945
AL618 to USAAF. Wrecked Panama Apr 9, 1943, SOC May 6, 1943.
AL619 (c/n 117) to Britain Apr 22, 1942. To BOAC May 15, 1944 as G-AGKT. To Qantas Jun 3, 1944.
Inaugurated Liberator service from Perth to Colombo Jun 17, 1944. Broken up at Mascot, NSW Jun 1947.
AL620 to Britain Apr 22, 1942. Missing (Tripoli) Jan 16, 1943
AL621 to USAAF. Wrecked at Tucson, AZ during force landing and hit a house Dec 23, 1942. Surveyed
Jan 1, 1943.
AL622 to USAAF. Condemned at Kodiak Oct 30, 1943.
AL623 to USAAF. Wrecked in landing in Carribean Dec 13, 1942.
AL624 to Britain Apr 22, 1942. Flew into hill in cloud, Millfore, Kirkcudbright Sep 14, 1942
AL625 to Britain Apr 21, 1942. To BOAC Dec 31, 1944
AL626 to USAAF. Wrecked Mar 29, 1942 at Patterson AAF, OH when nosewheel collapsed, but repaired.
SOC as worn out by Dec 31, 1945.
AL627 to Britain May 8, 1942. to BOAC as G-AHYJ.
AL628 to USAAF as C-87. To RFC at Walnut Ridge Feb 1, 1946
AL629 to USAAF. Condemned Oct 7, 1944, Salanis, Ecuador.
AL630 to Britain Apr 22, 1942.
AL631 to USAAF. Wrecked on beach at Buenaventura, Columbia Apr 14, 1942. SOC Jun 10, 1942.
AL632 to USAAF. To RFC at Kingman, AZ Jan 12, 1946.
AL633 to USAAF. Condemned in Hawaii sometime in 1945.
AL634 to USAAF. Wrecked in landing accident Dec 31, 1942.
AL635 to Britain
AL636 to Britain Apr 27, 1942. SOC Jan 7, 1944
AL637 to USAAF. Converted to C-87. To RFC at Cincinatti, OH Jan 31, 1946
AL638 to Britain Apr 20, 1942. Missing (Naples) Mar 5, 1943
AL639 to USAAF, converted to C-87. To RFC at Cincinatti, OH Jan 10, 1946
AL640 to USAAF, converted to C-87. Salvaged as C-87 Nov 3, 1945
AL641 to USAAF. To RFC as C-87 Walnut Ridge, Ark Jan 7, 1946
AL642/AL646 not built
AL647 SOC Feb 15, 1946. Not sure if this one ever got built.
AL648/AL667 not built

[Lemurs!]

You are completely correct. This was unchanged from the default Matrix as i just ran out of time.

I have now changed it to 15 LB30 production, ending in 6/42.

Mike

[Gregg]

Interesting!
I checked my father's log books for the 1942 time period, and he piloted LB30's numbers AL581, AL583 and AL586 during that period in the Indo-China threater. All three of those LB30's were used as transports during that period. He may have flown others, but those were the only three that were ID'ed as to serial number.
Most of the LB30's in USAAF hands during 1942, were used as transports, not bombers!
Gregg

[TIMJOT]

Alaskan Warrior. I glad you bought this up. I brought this up early on to try to get this changed in the stock scenerios but to no avail. Not to nitpik but actually the Java LB-30s were part of the 7th BG sent to NEIs to operate with the 19th BG. Specifically it was mainly the 11th squadron of the 7th BG that was were hurridely equiped with the LB-30s because there were not enough B-17s available at the time to fully equip the entire 7th BG. The 7th BG for all practical purposes did became under the operational control of the 19th BG while in Java however.

They are definitely too many of them in the game

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

You are completely correct. This was unchanged from the default Matrix as i just ran out of time.

I have now changed it to 15 LB30 production, ending in 6/42.

Mike

Uhhhh........Mike..................Does this mean there will be a "patch".or impending "upgrade" to the OOB's in the near future??

[Lemurs!]

Yes, Don and I may release a 1.02 CHS soon. This is not cut in stone as we need a hopefully well deserved rest.
There are several changes we have made to fix errors and oversights.

If you or anyone wants these changes now then email me and i will email back the fixed files only.
There will be no installer or anything like that just 4 or so fixed files.

Mike
masonsgild@charter.net

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!
If you or anyone wants these changes now then email me and i will email back the fixed files only.
There will be no installer or anything like that just 4 or so fixed files.

As always, once the updated scenario is available I will get it into an updated 1.02 package. But as always this will take me a few days.

Andrew