Palembang bug!

sulup · Post by **sulup** » Mon Aug 28, 2000 1:49 am

Hello everyone and the Matrix team. I thought I'd just like to add to the improvements list. Have you guys thought of fixing the Palembang bug? The current version of PACWAR allows the enemy bombers to reduce it's oil industry from 45 to 5 and the bug is that it can only be rebuilt to a maximum of 5! This is a huge disadvantage to Japan.

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Fri Dec 08, 2000 10:08 pm

Was this problem addressed in version 2/2.1 or do you still have to agree to a house rule to prevent a human opponent from taking unfair advantage?

Major Tom · Post by **Major Tom** » Fri Dec 08, 2000 10:54 pm

I am pretty sure that this bug existed in the original version, which, the Matrix team does not have the time nor resources to fix (they can only fix bugs created by their own modifications).

If you feel it is really crippling, just use an editor to move oil production up to normal every month or so.

sethwrkr · Post by **sethwrkr** » Sat Dec 09, 2000 5:12 am

Cmon...fix the **** bug already. It really is quite anoying!!!!

If I wanted to use the editor...I would have become a programer!

Seth

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Sat Dec 09, 2000 2:51 pm

Originally posted by Major Tom:
(they can only fix bugs created by their own modifications).

Why is that? Arnaud, the programmer working on the WiR update, is fixing all bugs (well, almost all), whether they were there initially or not. Fixing game bugs is something I thought was at the center of these updates to PAC and WiR.

Do Little · Post by **Do Little** » Sat Dec 09, 2000 9:13 pm

Originally posted by sethwrkr:
Cmon...fix the **** bug already. It really is quite anoying!!!!

If I wanted to use the editor...I would have become a programer!

Seth

I believe Matrix has done an outstanding job with all of there games to date, and am really looking forward to PW War Against Japan. Thus far they have done all this for us wargamers for free!! So please show them the respect they deserve and stop the complaints about the little things. Thanks and keep up the great job Matrix, its much appreciated.

[This message has been edited by Do Little (edited December 09, 2000).]

Major Tom · Post by **Major Tom** » Sat Dec 09, 2000 9:35 pm

There is currently no effort to mod WIR as a Windows Game, so, the guy who was/is working on it can spend all the time in the world on it.

The guys who modded Pacific War are now dealing with creating a game from scratch. They can't spend hours-days trying to figure out all of the small little bugs in the original Pacific War game, unless you never want to see War In the Pacific.

The Pacific War patch is supposed to be an interm, something to tide us over until the WitP game is released. Once WitP is out, nobody will have to play PacWar, as, it will have everything in it and more.

The Palembang bug has been there from the beginning. It isn't anything that has been developed from the new Matrix patches. It is too bad that this wasn't caught by us or you back when their efforts were 100% on PacWar.

I have worked on free modding for a few games, and it is amazing that everyone who you are creating it for feel that WE owe THEM something for the work we are doing. Without the present and future Matrix patches Pacific War will look like something from the Early 1990's. Now it looks better, and has some other features, as well as got rid of a few bugs. When 2.2 is released, the PBEM aspect will be working 100%, and the new OBC's will get rid of, or at least lower the chances of the missing LCU problem, as well as MCS and AP irregularities.

Don't ask me when 2.2 will be released. I have no idea. I am only involved in modifying the OBC's and Graphics.

babyseal7 · Post by **babyseal7** » Sat Dec 09, 2000 11:58 pm

Well, I've worked on organized projects building 3D models and upgrades for a coupla games as well, so I know how you feel...and I'll never, ever do it again. NEVER. EVER. Point with PacWar is that it used to work well enough to become a cult game...now it doesn't...at all. Palembang oil bug, who cares? We've learned to live with it, or to tweak it in reports. You fixed some stuff, but added in a bunch of new "show stopping" bugs...but now we're ruined for the old game as well cuz we like the improvements you added that DO work.

It's not a question of what we think you "owe" us, it's a question of what Matrix "promised" us. To be brutally honest, as it stands, I'm not gonna be rushing to buy "War in the Pacific" when it's out. Right now Matrix is 0 for 2...deliver on the original "promises" and you'll have loyal customers for life. Don't, and you won't, it's that simple.

Most of us could care less that the PacWar/Wir upgrades are free...if they worked, probably most of us would be overjoyed to pay for them, Hell I'd write you a check today as a "donation" if they worked. We just plain love the game..."War in the Pacific" is just an abstraction, another wannabe game like "Crimson Tide".

Major Tom · Post by **Major Tom** » Sun Dec 10, 2000 3:32 am

What? I don't see where you are coming from at all. PBEM is unplayable due to the supply bug, which is corrected and you will get it when 2.2 is released, whenever that is. You can still play PBEM games the traditional way until 2.2 comes out. NOTHING LOST HERE.

The problems with disappearing units has also been solved/checked in the 2.2 version as well. You yourself could fix these problems in a temporary file. Just use Rich's BRILLIANT editor that HE provided for everyone and clear up some vacant spots in the last 50 rows of both the Japanese and the Allied LCU order of battles.

MCS and AP complications have been cleared up in 2.2 as well. If you really wanted to, in lieu of 2.2 coming out you could use Rich's editor again on all of these MCS and AP groups that are out of wack and do something about it yourself!

I don't know when 2.2 is going to be released. Haven't the foggiest idea.

What exactly has Matrix games promised you that they haven't come throgh on? SPW@W is really good, WIR has been improved and is still being tweaked, and so is Pacific War. Sure, not EVERYTHING was able to be redone on the game, and complications DID arise, but, we are looking after them. WE ARE FIXING ALL of the bugs that WE created. We cannot spend eternity repairing some of the little inconsistancies left over from the original that WE and YOU missed the first time around. Sure, they weren't as good as you might have thought that they could be, I had high hopes for other features as well, but, they couldn't be implemented.

These games are 8 or so years old, there is only so much you can do with them. When one bug is fixed, sometimes another bug is inenvertantly created. That is unavoidable.

The reality is, that not EVERYTHING promised can actually be implemented. They might have thought that a certain feature, like issuing orders for TF's to go to vacant sea zones was feasible, but, in practice it only created major problems. They didn't intend for PBEM to have a major problem inherent in it, it just happened by accident, and is being addressed in the latest patch.

I think that the main problem is, is the extended time in between the release of the V2.1 patch and the V2.2 patch. I know everyone has/is being patient, in the meantime, try some other game, and when the patch is released you can get back into PacWar.

To expect perfection is to set yourself up for dissappointment.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Sun Dec 10, 2000 12:05 pm

Originally posted by Major Tom:
There is currently no effort to mod WIR as a Windows Game, so, the guy who was/is working on it can spend all the time in the world on it.

Doh! [Hang head in shame]. Sorry about that Major Tom, for some weird reason I wasn't thinking of WitP when I wrote that. You've now got a tough choice that I'm happy to not have to deal with. That being how much more time do you spend on PAC, before going full throttle on WitP.

[This message has been edited by Ed Cogburn (edited December 10, 2000).]

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Sun Dec 10, 2000 12:22 pm

Originally posted by babyseal7:
You fixed some stuff, but added in a bunch of new "show stopping" bugs...but now we're ruined for the old game as well cuz we like the improvements you added that DO work.

What do you expect, perfection at everything? These updates to PAC and WIR are not inhouse operations with a dozen programmers working on them fulltime. For WiR, its one programmer, part-time no less, with a dozen unpaid volunteers. The first WiR v2.0 release also included a show-stopper, but it was fixed in the next release, and the next future release of WiR, we think will make a lot of people happy. Its solid, and a lot of the playtesters like it. PAC will get there too, just have patience.

It's not a question of what we think you "owe" us, it's a question of what Matrix "promised" us.

Its not as if they signed a legal contract with you to legitmize the promises they made. With WiR I think the final version will come close to what they promised, and I believe the same will happen for PAC.

"War in the Pacific" is just an abstraction, another wannabe game like "Crimson Tide".

And exactly how can you know this about WitP without ever seeing it or playing it, never mind that right now it may not even be in a playable state? You should refrain from making sweeping conclusions on the game, since your conclusions are based on practically no working/real-world knowledge of said game.

andrewmv · Post by **andrewmv** » Sun Dec 10, 2000 12:24 pm

Hey guys (and guys of the female gender, there must be some here), chill. Matrix has done a wonderful job of fixing an old favorite for which they never had any possiblity of making money from. Some of the bugs not fixed are annoying, but Matrix have also provided an editor that allows us to work around them too. When WitP come out, I'll be shelling out the cash just as soon as I can afford it. Matrix has done more than any other company I can think of. Maybe in an ideal world they could fix every bug (or maybe make the code open source if at all possible), but they've gone further than I would have ever expected from any commercial enterprise.

babyseal7 · Post by **babyseal7** » Sun Dec 10, 2000 12:30 pm

Well, I started to be nasty and tell you all how and where to jam this patch...but it would be unfair to the other people, most of whom are pretty nice guys. Even the "everyone" "who thinks you owe them something". To much bullshit attached to this "free" upgrade, it ain't worth the price tag, and unlike some people I've never been very good at ass kissing or fake obsequious fawning gratitude.

So, in a nutshell...Good luck and G'bye!

mark the brit · Post by **mark the brit** » Sun Dec 10, 2000 2:23 pm

Regarding bugs in pacwar by the matrix project although there is still room for improvement i think anybody who is currently playing this excellent upgrade should be grateful for all the hardwork that has gone into this upgrade remember this is a free upgrade i have paid good money for software with more bugs.If you do not like the game then you do not have to play it.I would like to say that i think the team involved are really good just to upgrade the original which at that the time was a good game but was looking very dated by todays standards.Ver.2.2 will be the third update for free,this support is not offered on a lot of software you would pay for.I eagerly await any new software from matrix as i think since Gary Grisby did the pacwar,WIR and westfront games there has been a huge gap in computer wargames on this scale.I would gladly pay for these updates.As for war in the pacific when this is available i sure it to will have bugs but few programs can be tested in all conditions forums like this help the team fix these,before the internet once you bought your software that was it, if it had bugs then usually you could not do anything about it.so once again i must thank Matrix Games for all their hardwork long may it continue.Finally heres an idea for a future project,using the pacwar engine the war in europe ,now thats something i really would pay for.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:51 pm

Originally posted by babyseal7:
... ass kissing ...

So, in a nutshell...Good luck and G'bye!

Ass kissing? Hey buddy, I was one of the people who had some heated things to tell Matrix after they released the first version of WiR with a showstopper bug in it. Maybe some people will be happy with these games just because they're free, but I won't. What matters is are they an improvement over what we have now. So far I know WiR will be, and I'm confident that PAC will be too.

Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out....

Mike Wood · Post by **Mike Wood** » Mon Dec 11, 2000 3:15 pm

Hello...

Working with Mr. Grigsby on the "War in the Pacific" project has left little time to continue work on PacWar.

I was able to take a few days off, to work on PacWar. We should be releasing the newest patch, which corrects the secure PBEM problem and a few other minor problems, very soon.

Thank You for Your Patience...

Michael Wood

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Mon Dec 11, 2000 9:23 pm

Originally posted by Mike Wood:
Hello...

Working with Mr. Grigsby on the "War in the Pacific" project has left little time to continue work on PacWar.

I was able to take a few days off, to work on PacWar. We should be releasing the newest patch, which corrects the secure PBEM problem and a few other minor problems, very soon.

Thank You for Your Patience...

Michael Wood

Take your time with WitP. Do it right. Considering how unlikely it is that we'll see a detailed grand strategy wargame from any of the other alleged "major" game makers (with World in Flames and Road to Moscow both being vaporware still), I can be a really patient person.

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Tue Dec 12, 2000 12:00 am

Sorry if I hit a raw nerve with anyone by bringing up this old subject. All I was looking for was a clarification as to whether this old problem was addressed. I got that clarification, and can now take appropriate measures to deal with it. No problem here.

sethwrkr · Post by **sethwrkr** » Fri Dec 22, 2000 8:17 am

Hey,

Sory I brought all that on. I love game. I love what MG has done to it. Keep up the good work. I will definately buy the next one.

Seth

ShaiHulud · Post by **ShaiHulud** » Sun Dec 24, 2000 3:30 am

Major Tom...
I was a betatester on the both WiR and PW
(Tom Hazlewood, tho they spelled my name wrong..hehe) and I am AMAZED that work to improve them is still being done! After an enormous effort in just creating them. (in those days, they were monuments!)
I can feel nothing but gratitude that Matrix would invest time and trouble to provide, gratis, improvements to what are 'ancient' games. That they are still played is testament to the skill of their creation.
So, for you folks that are upset about the way things are being GIVEN to you, ask yourself when the maker of your car or VCR last called you for a free upgrade!

[This message has been edited by ShaiHulud (edited December 23, 2000).]