Japanese Oil Bug

Blackhorse · Post by **Blackhorse** » Wed Sep 13, 2000 9:58 am

As best as some of us can figure, the oil production levels in PacWar are irrelevant -- whether a base produces 1 oil or 45 it will still fill up any number of tankers that are sent.

Will PW-TMP correct this? or am I misinformed about the bug?

Louie: Rick, I've often wondered. . . why did you come to Casablanca?
Rick: I came for the water.
Louie: But Casablanca has no water.
Rick: I was misinformed.

[This message has been edited by Blackhorse (edited September 13, 2000).]

Nikademus · Post by **Nikademus** » Wed Sep 13, 2000 9:32 pm

not misinformed, i saw the same problem.

Way back in the mists of time i once conducted an experiment, my last campaign in fact (before PW got temp transfered to the dusty tomb of forgotten wargames

)

Played both sides (which was more interesting then playing the AI i'll say)

what constituted the 'experiment' part was that in playing the Japanese or Americans i noticed that neither the Japanese Merchant Marine, nor its industrial base seemed to be suffering even by 1945. the Japanese ship pool was overflowing merchant ships, and the resource/oil pools were just fine.

I noticed that a good # Japanese merchant ships were benefiting from the somewhat faulty torp rules mentioned in another thread, a large majority were surviving and operating with damage levels over 70%.

so to counter this i scuttled any Japanese merchant ship moderately or heavily damaged by torp attack during the supply phase.

by 1945, even after doing all that the Japanese STILL had plenty of merchant ships, the empire's resource/oil pools were just dandy and there were plenty of planes trains and automobiles.

given that more than anything else the PW was an economic war, this little flurb disturbed me greatly. (the result was still the same as my US forces crushed the Japanese thru sheer weight of numbers)

sulup · Post by **sulup** » Thu Sep 14, 2000 6:30 am

I have also found as the Japanese player, that you never seem to worry about oil and resource shortages. By 1945 I've got round 8000 oil and half a million resources. Unfortunately Japanese industry doesn't expand quickly enough to make use of all the resources, so the US are going to beat them anyway.

I agree that the economic model in PACWAR is very basic, though given the age of the game and the memory and space limitations. Pilot training should be based on the amount of oil you have. In PACWAR pilot training goes on wether you have 100 oil or 100000 oil. Also ship production is based on historical dates, so having more resources and oil won't speed up ship production.

The only way Japanese industry suffers is when the US pounds Japanese war factories from the marianas with B-29's.

Major Tom · Post by **Major Tom** » Thu Sep 14, 2000 6:52 am

The Resources bug has been repaired. The Japanese will no longer have unlimited resources (no thousands to millions of them!) So bombing will be very important.

Jeremy

Johnny · Post by **Johnny** » Thu Sep 14, 2000 11:32 am

Quote :what constituted the 'experiment' part was that in playing the Japanese or Americans i noticed that neither the Japanese Merchant Marine, nor its industrial base seemed to be suffering even by 1945. the Japanese ship pool was overflowing merchant ships, and the resource/oil pools were just fine.

i have encountered the same thing...doesnt matter how many merchants you sink there are always hundreds more for them to use and the oil and resources seem fine.

I have also noticed that even when the fuel levels of basses are "0" they manage to scramble fighters and bombers. I hope this is fixed in the patch too.

Blackhorse · Post by **Blackhorse** » Fri Sep 15, 2000 7:21 am

Originally posted by Blackhorse:
As best as some of us can figure, the oil production levels in PacWar are irrelevant -- whether a base produces 1 oil or 45 it will still fill up any number of tankers that are sent.

Will PW-TMP correct this? or am I misinformed about the bug?

Thusfar in this thread we appear to have established that 1.) Yes, the oil bug exists, and; 2.) TMP has announced that it will repair a resources bug. What we have *not* yet established is whether PW-TMP is planning to fix the somewhat important (he says, dryly)oil bug.

Can anyone answer this? ... Matrix... anyone ... Bueller. . . Bueller?

Mike Wood · Post by **Mike Wood** » Fri Sep 15, 2000 3:37 pm

Hello...

I am not quite sure that we have established that there is an oil bug. When I play the computer opponent, the oil reserves go to zero around July of 1942 and seldom rise above 200-300 after that.

Got to get back to work...

Michael Wood,
Lead Programmer
Matrix Games
____________________________________________

Originally posted by Blackhorse:
Thusfar in this thread we appear to have established that 1.) Yes, the oil bug exists, and; 2.) TMP has announced that it will repair a resources bug. What we have *not* yet established is whether PW-TMP is planning to fix the somewhat important (he says, dryly)oil bug.

Can anyone answer this? ... Matrix... anyone ... Bueller. . . Bueller?

sulup · Post by **sulup** » Fri Sep 15, 2000 4:37 pm

On the topic on resources, do the inland bases that hold resources come of any use in the game? The town of Hughes in Australia has resource value of 5, yet it's inland and unless resources can travel overland say to a port base like Perth, Adelaide, Sydney whatever, it's pretty useless to the Japanese player because resources can only be collected at ports. Any light on this???

Blackhorse · Post by **Blackhorse** » Fri Sep 15, 2000 9:19 pm

Originally posted by Mike Wood:
Hello...

I am not quite sure that we have established that there is an oil bug. When I play the computer opponent, the oil reserves go to zero around July of 1942 and seldom rise above 200-300 after that.

Got to get back to work...

Michael Wood,
Lead Programmer
Matrix Games
____________________________________________

As long as you're aware of the possibility and will either fix the problem (or debunk the myth) I'm a happy camper. The bug, if it exists, may be something that a Japanese player can exploit, even if the AI does not, by sending an endless stream of tankers to fill up at Aomori, for example. Keep up the great work!

Louie: Major Strasser has been shot! ... (long pause) ... round up the usual suspects.

[This message has been edited by Blackhorse (edited September 15, 2000).]

sulup · Post by **sulup** » Sat Sep 16, 2000 5:05 pm

Has anyone noticed that the capacity ratings for Japanese merchant ships don't appear right?

A Japanese 3000t MCS has a capacity of 50
A Japanese 6000t MCS has a capacity of 100
A Japanese 10000t MCS has a capacity of 200

Shouldnt it be 3000t = 30, 6000t = 60, 10000t = 100??

This is perhaps why the Japanese are able to carry more resources back to their empire that they normally would historically...

Same thing should go for the Allies because in the game, a 12000t = 200 capacity and a 14000t = 200 capacity as well. Whats the difference??

sulup · Post by **sulup** » Sat Sep 16, 2000 5:06 pm

Has anyone noticed that the capacity ratings for Japanese merchant ships don't appear right?

A Japanese 3000t MCS has a capacity of 50
A Japanese 6000t MCS has a capacity of 100
A Japanese 10000t MCS has a capacity of 200

Shouldnt it be 3000t = 30, 6000t = 60, 10000t = 100??

This is perhaps why the Japanese are able to carry more resources back to their empire that they normally would historically...

Same thing should go for the Allies because in the game, a 12000t = 200 capacity and a 14000t = 200 capacity as well. Whats the difference??