Fouche? Corruption

[sol_invictus]

I would probably love the game you want this game to be LaVean; but it's not. It's not going to ever be that game. If you restrict your suggestions to reasonable parameters, you might actually have an impact on a patch, expansion, or on the next game. Carping that the game doesn't model the wear and tear on French soldiers shoes; yes I'm exagerating some, is more likely to get you ignored by the Devs. This is not only a game but a business product that is meant to generate a profit. While you , maybe me, and many others might like what you are imaginging, the people who put up the capital and effort to make the game obviously decided that the game that was made was the correct economic decision that would generate the most profit. Maybe you could advance them some capital for their next project and see what happens.[;)]

[kerguelen]

I have to agree with Arinvald. I would certainly like a game modelling a state as you suggest. But as far as I know e.g. Paradox didn't have good sales with Victoria (which I liked), whereas HOI is their cashcow.
Taking that into account I am surprised that CoG still has a lot of economic options, while the trend in the industry obviously is against such depth in a strategy game.
So I think the development team did a great job - it's difficult to find such a game nowadays (beside Paradox, but I fear they might go mainstream), and I am sure that they will consider input from the forum and improvee the game on many issues we raised with reasonable effort. (A lot of things can even be done by accessing the txt files.

[Kushan04]

Just a quick question. I havent purchased CoG yet, but this 18 provinc3e limit sounds interesting, what happens after it? Do you just stop conquering? and just play a defensive warfare? or do you do raids into enemy provinces, hurts the enemy then retreat?

Kushan

[sol_invictus]

It just gets more difficult to hold your expansive empire together because of massive corruption. I agree with there being a system that causes large empires to start to experience stress; I just wish it was expanded a bit and made more subtle.

[bluemonday]

ORIGINAL: Kushan

Just a quick question. I havent purchased CoG yet, but this 18 provinc3e limit sounds interesting, what happens after it? Do you just stop conquering?

No - you keep growing. It's not a limit that is going to radically change the way you play. It is simply something that you have to deal with. Depending on the nation, you'll often have an empire much larger than this. In a current game with France I have over 40 provinces and the economy is still solvent.

[LaVean]

There is no doubt you can limp along with more than 18 but you have to be very creative. I gave away provinces so I could get money to build banks everywhere trying to really push cash...I gave Aragon to Russia for example. But it makes you do kind of strange things...like making prisoners starve so they don't tax your economy either.

It seems to be tied to the tax rate as well...

[Uncle_Joe]

I know at one point it was discussed that perhaps Courthouses could limit Waste. I'm not sure if it was ever implemented or not, but it is a possible direction to take.

Personally I dont think the game goes long enough for some of the upgrades to truly pay for themselves. But that is another topic and one that should probably wait until we have the full detailed econ breakdown that is being worked on.

[bluemonday]

You can do a lot more than just limp along - I've had several games where France was an economic powerhouse relative to the rest of the nations, and its province count was in the high-30s. It's not the case that gaining provinces loses you more income in waste than the province generates, so growing in provinces still grows your empire's output. Although diminishing returns may come into effect here.

I do agree with Uncle J that everything in the game is very expensive, and you can easily go from being cash-rich to being a pauper just by buying several improvments and military units. In that sense you never really are "cash-rich" although maybe on the lower difficulty levels it can be so. At some point it would be worth calculating the cost/benefit of some of these things quantitatively.

[YohanTM2]

I would hope that the impact of courts would aid the control of corruption and it will be interesting to see what tweaks occur as a broader audience runs into issues.

[Kushan04]

Gonna go ahead and buy CoG then. thanks.

Kushan

[Reiryc]

ORIGINAL: LaVean

I have always been curious as to why when people are unable to answer legitmate questions they respond with personal attacks...warpstorm why don't you explain to us why personal attacks are an important part of your game discussion repetoire...

I believe that if someone posts in a condescending or snide manner, then they've earned the flak that comes their way. I find myself less sympathetic to those who post in such a manner then cry foul when they get the flak they've earned.

Let's analyze a comment in this thread by you....

Maybe they should give him some Green Berets to help him with the coups he will engineer...that might be interesting too.

That's a smarta'ss comment, do you disagree? If you're going to post in such a manner, then why complain when someone calls you to the floor about it? If you'd take the time to notice, there are plenty of folks about these forums asking for information or clarification without doing so in a snide, condescending manner. They are receiving polite and informative replies in response.

Now lets look at a comment you've made on the game:

Why was anything with the economy to begin with? Since when you hit 18 provinces you are looking at 66% plus corruption your economy implodes.

I don't know why you state this.

I'm playing austria in a game and have over 40 provinces and 2k in money. The more provinces I get, the higher my income is growing.

If you'd like to see for yourself, then post or PM me your email and I'll send you the autosave files.

[LaVean]

You haven't hit the wall yet. As France I have been able to get to 4k of income by maxing tax and playing with the feudal systems and being selective about what I owned and what I gave away. In my last game was able to get to over 3k in waste. At that time was also in the 190s for division numbers...I don't now if there is ceiling on this either.

As for my comments on Fouche his numbers make him best suited for the coup option and I made the comment that engineering coups was not really in his job description, someone commented that maybe they did to be interesting and was speculating that if we are throwing in things just to be interesting give him some special troops to help with the coup.

If you find my feeble attempt at humour falling flat on your ears then I apologize as it was meant to amuze not to offend.

[Reiryc]

You haven't hit the wall yet.

Well if the wall is at 18 provinces as you have suggested, then surely at over 40 provinces I have well surpassed this wall?

[ericbabe]

ORIGINAL: Kushan

Just a quick question. I havent purchased CoG yet, but this 18 provinc3e limit sounds interesting, what happens after it? Do you just stop conquering? and just play a defensive warfare? or do you do raids into enemy provinces, hurts the enemy then retreat?

Kushan

I'm the developer and programmer and I'm curious as to what this 18 province limit is as well! There are rules for wastage when the economy grows large, and other rules that will set the AI against you when your nation gets large, but I don't believe that 18 provinces is a hard limit on anything.

Making courts lower wastage is planned for either first or second patch. Courts/culture might also reasonably influence the AI cooperation routines as well.

[Erik Rutins]

Please note also that diplomats are in many cases simply representations of influence or power brokers (or blocs) that would have an effect on these types of missions and the direction of national policy.

[PDiFolco]

ORIGINAL: LaVean

... But it makes you do kind of strange things...like making prisoners starve so they don't tax your economy either.
...

Rather historical in fact - that what England did with French sailors prisoners in "pontoons" (dismasted, anchored ship hulls converted to prisons). Dunno from memory the death rate but it was VERY high indeed...

[Twotribes]

The English were still starving prisoners after the revolutionary war ehh?

[sol_invictus]

It seems that nations at war don't really place a priority on the well being of POWs, in most cases. Andersonville being a case in point. Compared to that miserable hell, GITMO is a paradise on earth.

[DrewMatrix]

Why is Fouche a diplomat?

As a comment on the original question, Fouche's role, I have a Napoleonic deck of cards I got in France. The Queens are Caroline etc, the Kings Murat et al.

The two jokers are Fouche and Talleyrand [:D]

[Twotribes]

Actually GITMO is a reasonable and well run prison system for people that are at war with this country. I realize the Main Stream Press and others like to paint it other wise but the prisoners are humanly treated, feed regularly and the US Government even bought and gave to each prisoner that wanted one a Koran.

The only potential problem with Gitmo is what to do with those there. I favor Military Tribunal and execution for the uncorrible ones, permanet imprisonment shouldnt be an option. If the original country of one of the prisoners can provide assuarance the prisoner wont be released to attack the US again send them home.

As for the Civil War, a lot of the problems with certain POW camps was ( especially in the South) a lack of adequate available food and guards. Every war will have people that mistreat prisoners in their care, what the country and military do about that mistreatment determines whether it is a systamatic problem, one of design and intent, or simply the actions of people that need to be properly punished for criminal activity.