issues with multi-province minors

[kerguelen]

I found some issues with countries ownig several provinces which are dominated by different states. I copy here two of my previous posts in the general forum + new developments, which indicate that this might be a bigger problem.

My Diplomat managed to initiate an insurrection in Posen in Russian protected Poland. But the end result was that not whole Poland became independent or Posen, but Krakow (named 'Poland'. The Rest of Poland (including Posen, where the insurrection had been started!) became part of Russia within the same turn. However all polish troops and militias ended up in Krakow(!), which has a huge army now, certainly more than they can afford.
This happened in two different games (Diplomat in Posen or Warsaw, independent Poland both times only Krakow.)
On the other hand Insurrection in single-province countries work fine.

I have a follow up report on that:

The two polish states (one conquered by russia (labeled Poland, russian conquered), the other independent Cracow (labeled as Poland) coexisted as outlined in my previous post.
Poland (Cracow) offered to become Britains Protectorate and the same turn Russian conquered Poland became a russian Protectorate. I sent a Diplomat to Cracow, causing an Insurrection, he succeeded, Cracow became independent Poland again and - yes - russian protectorate Rest-Poland turned into russian conquered Poland.

Later in the game I saw that the United Netherlands were split in a similar way: Friesland was a Protectorate of AI-Russia, Batavia a Protectorate of AI-Austria. When Austria was forced to liberate Batavia, Friesland immediately turned into a russian-conquered Province, similar to Poland above, when Cracow became independent from Britain.



There is another post by marirosa in the general forum, which might have something to do with this issue.

Poland is down to one province. It was austrian protectorate but they get freedom as a peace term Austria signed with Russia (me playing Russia).
I DoWed Poland and my Cossak army crossed the border. The Province was white on map and witha poland flag on province summary.

The same turn my cossaks arrive, the province became stripped white/light green (as my other russian protectorate) and the province summary shows a russian flag with a little poland one on the side.

I can't build troops (grey popup tell me i am not allowed) but my cossacks don't bessiege the city.

What's wrong? Am i still at war? Is Poland now a russian protectorate?

[Queeg]

I had essentially the same thing happen with Sardinia (part of Piedmont, the rest owned by Austria). Austria agreed to liberate Sardinia by treaty, but kept the rest of Piedmont (as a possession, not a protecterate). I then invaded Sardinia and it immediately became striped like it was my protectorate, but without my troops having to besiege it.

[Mr. Z]

My Diplomat managed to initiate an insurrection in Posen in Russian protected Poland. But the end result was that not whole Poland became independent or Posen, but Krakow (named 'Poland'. The Rest of Poland (including Posen, where the insurrection had been started!) became part of Russia within the same turn. However all polish troops and militias ended up in Krakow(!), which has a huge army now, certainly more than they can afford.
This happened in two different games (Diplomat in Posen or Warsaw, independent Poland both times only Krakow.)

Poland is kind of a special case. The only thing that sounds wrong to me here is that only Krakow became independent. Not sure why that happened--maybe Eric can enlighten us.

Later in the game I saw that the United Netherlands were split in a similar way: Friesland was a Protectorate of AI-Russia, Batavia a Protectorate of AI-Austria. When Austria was forced to liberate Batavia, Friesland immediately turned into a russian-conquered Province, similar to Poland above, when Cracow became independent from Britain.

Now that's a little strange--Friesland shouldn't be a protectorate of anything. Eric, is this a bug?

I can't build troops (grey popup tell me i am not allowed) but my cossacks don't bessiege the city.

What's wrong? Am i still at war? Is Poland now a russian protectorate?

Sounds like it.

[marirosa]

I am not sure it this falls here. This report is about Naples, Calabria and Sicily.

Playing as Spain, i've losed a war against turks and they asked as peace term to liberate Sicily. I had Sicily, Naples and Calabria as protectorate(s).

The turn i enforced the term and liberate Sicily, both Naples and Calabria changed from protectorate status to conquered minors (so me Spain, got 2 more provinces under direct control but with the small TwoSicilies flag over the spanish one).

Some turns later (i don't remember but where 2 or 3 at max), i did lost Naples and Calabria that became free minors as Sicily was.

[carnifex]

More fun with minors.

As Spain I conquer Morocco.

Well, I sort of conquer it. I conquer the capitol province but not Tangiers. Tangiers is now neutral, and my troops in Tangiers just sit there. So I declare war on Tangiers (by declaring war on Morocco). My troops siege Tangiers for one turn, then they go back and just sit there. I check and sure enough Tangiers is neutral again. Every turn I declare war on it, siege it for one turn, then the sieges stop and it becomes neutral again.

[Mynok]

Same thing happens when one attacks a neutral Algeria (which is not a muli-province country). War lapses every turn (even after I conducted a seige). Same problem attacking a neutral (liberated) Sicily (which still requires that I declare war on Naples).

[carnifex]

I'd like to add my minor country problem is intermittent. Sometimes Morocco falls fully, sometimes not. No clue if it's a bug or something not in the manual.

[Ralegh]

While I know that to some you this is the "Poland bug", to other players it is the Benghazi, Illyria, Calabria, (etc etc etc) - it is a general problem, not a country- or scenario-specific thing. We have this class of problem identified, reproduced and we have some neat theories as to what is causing it. It can cause 'subordinate' provinces to take on both type of cross hatching, and there are a few other symptoms. It does affect all scenarios, although it is more pronounced in the earlier ones where the multi-province countries are more common.

Effectively what is happening is that the capital province of the multi-province country is getting a different status to the rest of the country, leaving the rest of the country behaving very strangely indeed.

I have not been able to identify a workaround, other than to free the multi-province minor, and then conquer it again, which isn't much of a workaround.

[Mynok]

I had this issue crop up with a slightly different twist to it last night.

I'm Turkey (as ususal) with Cyrenaica and Tunisia conquered while Tripolitania is a protectorate (asked to be one). Algeria was a proctectorate as well, but did not ask. After conquering Tunisia, Form Protectorate showed in the right-click menu and I selected it.

While in the midst of a Russian war, I happen to watch some movement down there from an Egyptian army used to conquer Tunisia when I see the Algerian corps go zipping through Tripoli to Benghazi. Then I notice Benghazi has dual striping. I right-click on Benghazi and it shows as belonging to Algeria--which is still a protectorate of mine with the dual striping at home too?!?!?

Out of curiousity, I liberate Algeria and Benghazi is now neutral instead of being part of my Tripolitania protectorate.

I might have the save, but I was in the midst of some major battles and might have overwritten them with one where I've already liberated Algeria.

[Mynok]

Mr. Z, I have emailed you a save file with the exact steps by which you can repeat the above problem. I have done it at least 5 times now.

[Hanal]

And a greater problem with multi province countries is that when you capture their capital, they do not surrender.....

[Naomi]

In light of the multitude of problems of territorial legitimacy, we had better tame our greed and respect the neutrality (or status quo) of all minors. [:'(]

Seriously, I would like to avail myself of this thread to report a situation. I had Balkan provinces (enough to re-create Serbian Kingdom which I didn't do yet) ceded to me, and I saw some units scattered around this additional part of my empire. They all bore flags belonging to minor countries, but they all were not under my control (I couldn't even nudge them around - not to mention detain or deport - in any way). Perhaps, given time, they would finally wake up to realise that they were on a conquered land.

[Mr. Z]

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Mr. Z, I have emailed you a save file with the exact steps by which you can repeat the above problem. I have done it at least 5 times now.

Sorry--the problem has also been reported elsewhere, and we are working on it. Should have a fix in a patch or two.

[Mynok]

No problem. Just wanting to provide repeatable data for your debugging.

[ericbabe]

Please continue the reporting. I can use more data on this problem.... especially a save game file, if anyone has one.


Eric

[Mynok]

I emailed one to Mr. Z, Eric, with detailed instructions on how to reproduce the problems (also listed).

[Ralegh]

I can reproduce this on demand - mainly with Veneto and Tripolitania, since I play 1805. There are plenty more 'ramification' wierdnesses that happen because of the initial bug.

The way it should work:
- if the capital of a multi-province minor changes state, then all its subordinate minors should too [note that there are several ways of this stats changing - the code needs to do the same thing in each case - conquest; liberation; ceding; insurrection]

Example: at the moment, conquering Tripoli doesn't give you Bengazi, and what happens is different depending on whether Bengazi is occupied or not.

- if a subordinate province changes state by any means, what happens needs to depend on the current status of the capital province [so if you liberate a subordinate province, it sits on its own if it can be a country in its own right OR joins the mulit-prov country if that is relevent (I assume this choice should operate based on the scenario setup - the province tries to go to the starting player); or if it cannot be a country in its own right, it must join something - just make sure it is something that exists!]

example: if you liberate Illyria (which cannot have troops of its own), it should become a province of Veneto IF Veneto is a protectorate or neutral. If Veneto is conquered, Illyria has to adopt the same status as Veneto (becoming a conquered of whoever owns Veneto) - at the moment it becomes "Veneto" on its own, even though the capital province is a conquered.

example2: if you liberated Posen - which can have troops of its own - in some scenarios it should join Poland if it exists. In other scenarios (and if Poland doesn't exist) it should be neutral. [Housekeeping code to gather neutrals into a parent if Poland was later either freed or made a protectorate?]

[Mr. Z]

ORIGINAL: Mynok


I emailed one to Mr. Z, Eric, with detailed instructions on how to reproduce the problems (also listed).

Yeah, I've made sure he has it.