Inclusion of ships for CHS

[The Dude]

Are the following ships going to included in the CHS?

Baltimore Class
-Bremerton
-Columbus
-Fall River
-Las Angeles
-Macon
-Toledo

Oregon City Class
-Albany
-Oregon City
-Rochester

Roanoke Class
-Roanoke
-Worcester

Fargo Class
-Fargo
-Huntingdon

Cleveland Class
-Galveston
-Little Rock
-Manchester
-Portsmouth
-Providence

San Diego Class
-Spokane
-Fresno

Tiger Class (RN)
-Tiger
-Superb
-Defence
-Blake?

If some ships like the Vanguard and the Midways are included or being considered for inclusion are any of these being considered also?

[Don Bowen]

No Sir - in fact the Midway's are not in. However one CHS team member (now inactive) is considering a non-respawn version which would account for these ships.

[The Dude]

Looking at some of the ships completion dates and even adding a year on for work up some could appear and make a useful contribution to a long campaign.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


No Sir - in fact the Midway's are not in. However one CHS team member (now inactive) is considering a non-respawn version which would account for these ships.

How could a non-respawn version work - I thought that needed a code change. Non-respawn would be nice.

[The Dude]

these ships wouls not need a respawn cuz they are all original ships. I did not include historical respawn ships when i made the list

[Don Bowen]

For now at least we are not looking at any more late arriving ships. The only CHS team member that did work on such ships is currently inactive and is also the champion of non-respawn. Any work will have to wait until he is back in action.

Also, without a non-respawn function we need to account for the automatic re-spawn of lost ships during the war. We can't add to many late arriving ships as the game will create them for use.

Don

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

How could a non-respawn version work - I thought that needed a code change. Non-respawn would be nice.

I don't know - you out there Ron??

[Ian R]

I recall reading (in this forum) that the triggers for rebirth are nationality and type ( e.g., US or AU and CA), but that once the trigger is pulled, that only the ships in the slots in the ship classes data file occupied by the Essex, Baltimore and Cleveland basic non upgraded versions can be produced. To put it another way, those slots were thought to be hardwired. Bearing this out, I have a vague recollection of a replacement cruiser turning up mid 43 in my ongoing campaign and then next day taking a sys damage hit to get the early 43 Cleveland upgrade. But I could be wrong about that.

So, why not move the Essex, Baltimore and Cleveland basic non upgraded versions into a different slot in the classes data file, then put in a tugboat or some such where they were so the respawn produces something insignificant.

"These are the adventures of the tugboat Enterprise, on a five year mission to Fanning Island" [;)]

It is axiomatic that if you do this you need to put in at least 4 more Essexs, and several Baltimores and Clevelands, and go through the ship files and change the early arrivals. Although the thought of the Tugboat Essex morphing into the CV upgraded Essex is faintly amusing.

I have every expectation that I am about to be told thios has been tried and doesn't work, but I remain curious.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Ian R

I recall reading (in this forum) that the triggers for rebirth are nationality and type ( e.g., US or AU and CA), but that once the trigger is pulled, that only the ships in the slots in the ship classes data file occupied by the Essex, Baltimore and Cleveland basic non upgraded versions can be produced. To put it another way, those slots were thought to be hardwired. Bearing this out, I have a vague recollection of a replacement cruiser turning up mid 43 in my ongoing campaign and then next day taking a sys damage hit to get the early 43 Cleveland upgrade. But I could be wrong about that.

So, why not move the Essex, Baltimore and Cleveland basic non upgraded versions into a different slot in the classes data file, then put in a tugboat or some such where they were so the respawn produces something insignificant.

"These are the adventures of the tugboat Enterprise, on a five year mission to Fanning Island" [;)]

It is axiomatic that if you do this you need to put in at least 4 more Essexs, and several Baltimores and Clevelands, and go through the ship files and change the early arrivals. Although the thought of the Tugboat Essex morphing into the CV upgraded Essex is faintly amusing.

I have every expectation that I am about to be told thios has been tried and doesn't work, but I remain curious.

This has been tried and does not work.

There.

Actually I believe, respawn is based on Nation and Class only and not slot. US CV, Cru (don't recall if it's CA and CL or just CA), Australian CA - lose one, get one.

So an unknown number of ships will appear, messing up the late war OOB.

Ron will have to jump in here with his respawn ideas.

Ron.... Ron... Ron!

[Ron Saueracker]

Hey all,

Yep, I'm the non-respawn guy. I'll get a non respawn version out soon, before I go to Greece. I'm in the process of moving and taking care of my mother after her operation so my own PC is not connected. Once I do so (this month?) I can download the latest CHS and do the dirty deed.

I'll find the list of ships which were renamed ( I have it on the forums here numerous times) and enter the link here. Once I accomplish this I'll explain how it works in detail.

Justin (TankerAce) has the list and did an early version...perhaps if he has the time maybe he can pump out a version given my lack of a usable PC (the PC I'm using lately is my brother's and is REAL old). Justin is a fan of the non respawn as well so perhaps if enough people beg and plead that they can't wait for me to get my self organized, he might just do it in my absence.[&o]

[Tankerace]

If not this month, for sure in the next few months after War Plan Orange goes gold. Right now I have my hands full with that, but Ill see if I can't do some work on the non-respawn here and there.

[Ron Saueracker]

There you go! Justin comes through again! I trust you still have the data?

Thank you![&o]

[Ron Saueracker]

So basically, with the non respawn version, all ships which were not included in the game because of the dual naming issue are back in the pipeline. This includes missing DDs, DEs, SSs which, unlike cruisers and carriers, don't "respawn".

I'm looking for the list now...

[Tankerace]

I should. I had to wipe my machine last week, and I think I backed it up... not 100% sure though. If nothing else, I should have your old emails that have the data in them.

[Ron Saueracker]

Here it is...

Most ships have their "original" names which were changed in order to commemorate those lost while some have names of "cancelled" units or fictious names. These fictious names can be altered of course...I was just taking a wild stab.

USN Vessels Omitted/Affected By Spawning Feature/Name Duplication Issue

Essex Class

CV 10 Bon Homme Richard May/43 (historically Yorktown II)
CV 12 Kearsarge Dec/43 (historically Hornet II)
CV 16 Cabot March/43(historically Lexington II)
CV 18 Oriskany Dec/43(historically Wasp II)
CV 31 Reprisal Dec/44(historically Bon Homme Richard) *(Named after cancelled Essex)



Independence Class

CVL 28 Chesapeake Aug/43 (historically Cabot)*(Famous Revolutionary War battle and frigate).

Baltimore Class

CA 70 Pittsburg Nov/43 (historically Canberra II)
CA 71 St. Paul Jan/44 (historically Quincy II)
CA 72 Albany Nov/44 (historically Pittsburg)
CA 73 Rochester March/45 (historically St. Paul)

Cleveland Class

CL 64 Flint Feb/44(historically Vincennes II)
CL 81 Vicksburg Jan/44(historically HoustonII)
CL 86 Cheyenne July/44(historically Vicksburg)
CL 90 Wilkes-Barre June/44(historically Astoria II)
CL 103 Buffalo Aug/44(historically Wilkes Barre)
CL104 Tallahassee Jan/45(historically Atlanta II)

Atlanta Class

CL 97 Spokane Oct/44(historically Flint)

Balao Class

SS 313 Nerka Jan/44(historically Perch II)*named after cancelled Balao and sub in "Run Silent, Run Deep".
SS 314 Eel Feb/44(historically Shark II)*named after cancelled Balao
SS 315 Mako March/44(historically Sealion II)*named after Harry Homewood novel sub

Tench Class

SS 476 Sole Feb/45(historically Runner II)*named after cancelled Balao

Fletcher Class

DD 795 Boon Apr/44(historically Preston II, named after USN DD in C.S. Forrester Short Stories)
DD 796 O'Leary March/44(historically Benham II, named after USN DD in William P Mack novels)
DD 797 McKenna July/44(historically Cushing II, named after "Sand Pebbles" author.
DD 798 Mack Apr/44 (historically Monssen II, named after author W.P. Mack)
DD 799 Caine Aug/44 (historically Jarvis II, named after fictitious Wouk DMS)
DD 800 Roberts Aug/44 (historically Porter II, named after "Mr. Roberts")
DD 801 Pulver Sep/44 (historically Colhoun II, named after "Ens. Pulver")
DD 802 Morton Sep/44 (historically Gregory II, named after Capt Morton in "Mr. Roberts")
DD 803 Richardson Nov/44 (historically Little II, named after main character in "Run Silent, Run Deep")

Allen M Sumner Class

DD 722 Keith Sep/44 (historically Barton II, named after main character in 'The Caine Mutiny.")
DD 723 Queeg Sep/44 (historically Walke II, named as per previous)
DD 724 Keefer Sep/44 (historically Laffey II, named as per previous)
DD 725 Holman Sep/44 (historically O'Brien II, named after main character in "The Sand Pebbles")
DD 726 Clancy Sep/44 (historically Meredith II, named after novelist)
DD 727 DeVriess July/44 (historically DeHaven II, named after character in "The Caine Mutiny")
DD 744 Moulton July/44 (historically Blue II, named after fictitious ship in "Caine Mutiny")
DD 758 Reeman May/45 (historically Strong II, named after novelist)

Allen M Sumner Minelayer

DM 33 (ex DD 772) Savage (historically Gwin II, named after RSRD character)
DM 34 (ex DD 773) Beach (historically Aaron Ward II, named after novelist)

Gearing Class

DD 784 Wayne (historically McKean II, named after war movie star)
DD 805 Gable (historically Chevalier II, named after RSRD star)
DD 877 Cagney (historically Perkins II, named after war movie star)

Edsall Class DEs

DE 129 Griffin July/45 (historically named Edsall II)
DE 131 Hill July/45 (historically named Hammann II)
DE 238 McGurk July/45 (historically named Stewart II)

Buckley Class Des

DE 154 Simpson Jan/45 (historically named Sims II)

[Tanaka]

Don great signature! Who did the art?!? [:)]

[The Dude]

Baltimore Class

CA 70 Pittsburg Nov/43 (historically Canberra II)
CA 71 St. Paul Jan/44 (historically Quincy II)
CA 72 Albany Nov/44 (historically Pittsburg)
CA 73 Rochester March/45 (historically St. Paul)

Cleveland Class

CL 64 Flint Feb/44(historically Vincennes II)
CL 81 Vicksburg Jan/44(historically HoustonII)
CL 86 Cheyenne July/44(historically Vicksburg)
CL 90 Wilkes-Barre June/44(historically Astoria II)
CL 103 Buffalo Aug/44(historically Wilkes Barre)
CL104 Tallahassee Jan/45(historically Atlanta II)

Atlanta Class

CL 97 Spokane Oct/44(historically Flint)

The fact of the matter remains that in addition to the respawns ( A concept i favor) there were other ships that were not connected in anyways with previously sunken ships.

In the list i made at the head of this thread i did not included any of the respawns ( ie Canberra, Vincennes etc). I only included ships that were eventually completed under the name that they were completed with.

[Don Bowen]

The problem is that the ships that will be sunk is not known as each game will develop differently. A certain number of late-arriving ships have been intentionally left out to compensate for the unknown number of respawns. Some but not all of these relate to ships that were historically named after early war losses.

This was done in the original Matrix Scenario 15 and must continue to be done until a non-respawn version is created.

[The Dude]

The problem is that the ships that will be sunk is not known as each game will develop differently. A certain number of late-arriving ships have been intentionally left out to compensate for the unknown number of respawns. Some but not all of these relate to ships that were historically named after early war losses.

This was done in the original Matrix Scenario 15 and must continue to be done until a non-respawn version is created.

Oh ok that makes sense. Do you know off hand how many respawn slots there are?

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: The Dude

Oh ok that makes sense. Do you know off hand how many respawn slots there are?

All empty slots in the database can be used for respawn, so the number available is approximately 9999 minus number of slots originally used for ships.

There are two points:

1. The respawn routines do not properly recognize the boundry between Japanese and Allied ships. If a Japanese respawn ship (minesweeper) is lost a new one will be spawned in the next available empty slot. If there are no more empty Japanese slots the Japanese ship will be respawned in an allied slot, thus becoming allied-a-fied.

2. The respawn routine does not appear to wrap arround. When it hits the end (#9999) without finding an empty slot into which it can respawn it does not go back to the start and continue checking. Thus respawn might fail for a ship rather low in the database even if there are empty slots higher up.

Respawn can be stopped by filling all 9999 slots.