PBYs

[Big B]

To all of you who know more than I do out there (I'm sure that's most of you):
I am bedeviled by what seems to me poor performance on my PBY squadrons.

I have played a few PBEM games ('42 scenarios as allied) and a disturbing trend has become apparent to me;
I have my PBYs at the usual bases all over the Pacific flying air search - first at 15,000 feet, then I've been trying 6,000 feet. The result has been that they spot occasional subs, but have never spotted a Jap TF until the TF attacks me, and is four hexes away from it's target (me).

What am I doing wrong here? I mean, I am supposed to be able to spot the enemy before he gets me aren't I? Once in a while?

[CapAndGown]

Its that diabolical Japanese Stealth techonology.

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

Its that diabolical Japanese Stealth techonology.

I'm sayin'!

[Nikademus]

No more AWACS search.

So solly. [:'(]

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

No more AWACS search.

So solly. [:'(]

Darn!

But seriously folks, is my experiance here typical - in that the allies never spot a TF till after it hit's...or am I just lucky?

[Bradley7735]

I don't seem to have a problem spotting task forces.

I tend to put a squadron at each front line base all across my front. Even if the bases are close. I'd rather have a squadron at Lunga AND Tulagi, instead of Lunga and Luganville, for example. 6,000 feet, 60% naval search, out to max range.

I don't know if I spot every TF that comes around, but I spot enough to know where KB usually is.

I play the AI, though.

[Nikademus]

sounds like your just lucky, or facing a crafty player (like me) who knows how to avoid snoopers.

[:D]

[witpqs]

For dedicated search planes (and PB4Y's), 100% naval search. For bombers that might be searching, whatever percent keeps the fatigue and morale managable. All at 6,000 ft.

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

sounds like your just lucky, or facing a crafty player (like me) who knows how to avoid snoopers.

[:D]

Yah, he's crafty...we've been opponents for over 25 years!

However, his TFs ALWAYS appear exactly four hexes out and only after they hit me...and I'm not talking about appearing suddenly in front of Midway, or Wake, I mean appearing there and BEHIND Pearl Harbor only 4 hexes out - so he would have had to steam through 2,000+ miles of search area to appear there - not just an overnight full speed dash from PBY extreme range.

So I wondered if anyone else out there has this happen to them religiously, or is it a matter of the allies not being worth anything till 1944 or what?[8|]

Signed, exasperated.

[Feinder]

The problem with PBYs and PBEM is that the "sprint range" (full speed) of KB, is 10 hexes for one day. So an opponent will sit at the edge of your range (12 hexes I think), and then run it at full speed the next turn to clobber you. Or if using Shok/Zui/Hiry/Sory (all speed 30+ kts), sprint range is 12 (Kaga and Akagi will slow the group to under 30 kts, so range is only 10). Once KB has some sys damage, you have less to worry for the 12 sprint range (because the sys dmg will bring them under 30 kts, and thus to sprint of 10).

But at ranges of greater than 8, your PBYs will not be nearly as likely spot (or accurate if they do).

Your one blessed sqdn of Coronados are wonderful. Keep them alive. They have a range of like 12/14 vs. the 10/12 of PBYs.

Playing 2-day turns, you’re completely screwed, because sprint range for KB is 20 hexes (a LONG way).

Unfortunately for you as Allies, the Emily/Mavis/Nell/Betty range will detect you fairly early on. Your sprint range with CVs and CAs, will be 12 (s’nice!). But the range on Japanese patrols and bombers is something like 15/20.

It’s not gamey to sit out of detect range, and then run in. Makes perfect sense (and happened frequently historically: Raid on Marcus by Enterprise in February(?) and attacks on Marshalls by York in April(?).

But basically, if you’re trying to avoid KB, you need to consider anything within 20 – 25 hexes (includes the range of the planes), to be threatened. Give KB a wide berth if you don’t want to engage.

If your just playing the AI, it rarely uses full speed. So you’re more likely to detect something. But again, your effective range of PBYs is about 8, and up 10 when your crews are more experienced (in the 70s).

As far as alt goes, 6000’ works fairly well. Planes on NavSearch are generally trying to avoid be seen. My PBYs (or any other planes I use for search), rarely take air-to-air losses or flak for that matter either.

-F-

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

The problem with PBYs and PBEM is that the "sprint range" (full speed) of KB, is 10 hexes for one day. So an opponent will sit at the edge of your range (12 hexes I think), and then run it at full speed the next turn to clobber you. Or if using Shok/Zui/Hiry/Sory (all speed 30+ kts), sprint range is 12 (Kaga and Akagi will slow the group to under 30 kts, so range is only 10). Once KB has some sys damage, you have less to worry for the 12 sprint range (because the sys dmg will bring them under 30 kts, and thus to sprint of 10)....

snip...

Thanks for the tip Feinder. It sounds like what I was theorizing. With a good opponent, the "dash" range is perfect for the Japanese player to slip in & hit every time without warning. Sigh. I may as well not have any PBYs on naval search at this rate.


By the way - I've seen it posted...whats the KB? Can't figure out the initials though I do get the drift.

[Nikademus]

KB= Kido Butai. (Mobile Force)

When i'm in charge it also stands for Kick Butt.

[:'(]

[Feinder]

KB = Kido Butai. It's what the Japanese Navy called their main carrier striking force.

Usually KB is the "main" force of the IJN player. Some players split up their CVs. But if they've got 4 out of 6, those four would be KB. You'll also hear "mini-KB", which is usually the collection of CVLs and CVEs.

But yes, on 2-day turns, PBYs are of “marginal” usefulness. Even a bombardment group by Japan (like the fast BBs and CAs), will have a sprint range of 20 hexes (or 24 if all CAs).

It sucks, but it’s a fact of life.

Take solace in knowing that while IJN loves to sprint around, it expends a LOT of fuel, and it racks up sys damage fairly quick that way. If he keeps it up, you should start to see a slack in sorties by KB, around April/May. By then, his carriers will have around/almost/more than 20 sys damage, from charging around a full speed. That either means he’s got to sit in port for good while to work that sys damage down, or risk having his flight deck(s) closed from a single bomb hit.

Just something to keep in mind, and use to any advantage that you can.

-F-

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

KB= Kido Butai. (Mobile Force)


[:'(]

Ah I see

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

KB = Kido Butai. It's what the Japanese Navy called their main carrier striking force.

Usually KB is the "main" force of the IJN player. Some players split up their CVs. But if they've got 4 out of 6, those four would be KB. You'll also hear "mini-KB", which is usually the collection of CVLs and CVEs.

But yes, on 2-day turns, PBYs are of “marginal” usefulness. Even a bombardment group by Japan (like the fast BBs and CAs), will have a sprint range of 20 hexes (or 24 if all CAs).

It sucks, but it’s a fact of life.

Take solace in knowing that while IJN loves to sprint around, it expends a LOT of fuel, and it racks up sys damage fairly quick that way. If he keeps it up, you should start to see a slack in sorties by KB, around April/May. By then, his carriers will have around/almost/more than 20 sys damage, from charging around a full speed. That either means he’s got to sit in port for good while to work that sys damage down, or risk having his flight deck(s) closed from a single bomb hit.

Just something to keep in mind, and use to any advantage that you can.

-F-

Thanks F,
Hmm, just a thought - what with G3Ms having a radius of 22+ hexes, is there a general point/range for all of us where naval search gets pretty useless or is it driven by squadron experiance?

[Nikademus]

The code was tweaked a while back so that the farther out a search plane goes the less efficient it will get, so if you've set your planes to maximum range they will actually be not too effective as the fringe areas. Setting your search range to less than max IIRC, will improve search results somewhat (within the set range of course)

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

The code was tweaked a while back so that the farther out a search plane goes the less efficient it will get, so if you've set your planes to maximum range they will actually be not too effective as the fringe areas. Setting your search range to less than max IIRC, will improve search results somewhat (within the set range of course)

ok..
But there is no real range that search becomes pointless, say 12 hexes 18 hexes 22 hexes... if your crew is good and your not quite on max range you'll continue to be effective as long as your up there eh?

[Nikademus]

There's no hardline graph point because it's influenced by so many factors including crew exp rating, weather, size of TF, etc etc etc ad nausia etc. [:)]

From my own experiences i'd say any TF more than 10 hexes away from a base has a good chance of staying undetected unless its in a coastal hex

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

There's no hardline graph point because it's influenced by so many factors including crew exp rating, weather, size of TF, etc etc etc ad nausia etc. [:)]

From my own experiences i'd say any TF more than 10 hexes away from a base has a good chance of staying undetected unless its in a coastal hex

Well I guess I could experiment with that using both sides of a two-player-hot-seat game.

Thanks Nikademus, where ever you are orbiting up there.

[Nikademus]

The TF is out there......(X files whistling in the background) [:D]