Convoy Supply

Brelly · Post by **Brelly** » Sun Oct 15, 2000 10:07 am

Hi there

I am playing a 41 start pbem campaign in V2.1 as the allies. It is turn 3 and I am not seeing any allied regular convoy resupplies nor has my opponent. This was also the case with a version 2.0 game we started.
When in the pbem chain is this meant to happen? Has anyone else seen allied resupply in their game or is it a bug?

Rich Dionne · Post by **Rich Dionne** » Sun Oct 15, 2000 6:02 pm

Yep, looks like that bug slipped through

Hopefully we can get this one fixes ASAP.

Regards,

Rich

mjmooney · Post by **mjmooney** » Mon Oct 16, 2000 4:41 am

Come to think of it Mine either--Rangoon is not listed as Isolated-and yet is never supplied--I never see a convoy report either.

Dragon · Post by **Dragon** » Mon Oct 16, 2000 7:47 am

I have the same problem with Rangoon and Zanjiang. For some reasons my allied Merchant fleets refuse to service these vital ports.

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Mon Oct 16, 2000 2:55 pm

I am in March 42 in one game where every allied base except midway, PH and New Calodonea (west coast ok too) are running out of supply because I can not keep enough convoys running. I played first 4 or 5 turns before I noticed I was not being supplied and now I can not catch up. whole China/Burma/India theatre starving. ANZAC out of supply and fuel. Subs sitting in Ports out of gas 50aircraft groups only putting up 10 or less ac against air attack (flying on fumes or moonshine) I breaks my heart to not to be able to play Pac War (thank Matrix for SPWaW and WiR) But I would rather they finish WitP then spend too much time on poor old Pac War fixes. I will probly not play Pac War after new game released.

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

Major Tom · Post by **Major Tom** » Mon Oct 16, 2000 3:58 pm

I am noticing that too. Many of my bases are totally free of enemy intrusion, yet, I don't get any supply into them. In a test running of the game which I ran until 1945, the British in Burma/India were basically at ZERO supply.

The reason for this problem might be the one of the fixes. When the USN TF's were stopped from going to Calcutta/India this might have stopped all influx of supplies to that region. Possibly the only place that gets supplies is the US West Coast.

It isn't ABSOLUTELY critical, but, EXTREMELY annoying!

Jeremy

RickyB · Post by **RickyB** » Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:06 pm

Originally posted by Major Tom:
I am noticing that too. Many of my bases are totally free of enemy intrusion, yet, I don't get any supply into them. In a test running of the game which I ran until 1945, the British in Burma/India were basically at ZERO supply.

The reason for this problem might be the one of the fixes. When the USN TF's were stopped from going to Calcutta/India this might have stopped all influx of supplies to that region. Possibly the only place that gets supplies is the US West Coast.

It isn't ABSOLUTELY critical, but, EXTREMELY annoying!

Jeremy

I have a question about this. Is it only the PBEM mode that is having this problem? I haven't had a chance to do more than play around in PacWar yet, so I am not sure what the status is.

The reason I ask is that the WIR release, which I have been a playtester for, has a very similar problem with its PBEM games. In that game, the PBEM code is completely bypassing every phase in the turn except the player orders phase and the combat phase. There are no replacements, no ops points (like PPs), no reinforcements, readiness changes, etc. It could be the same problem here, it sounds like.

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Rick Bancroft
Semper Fi

Blackjack · Post by **Blackjack** » Mon Oct 16, 2000 7:10 pm

I would like to strongly disagree with all who say " PacWar is just a time filler until Pacific War come out, "don`t waste time on it, etc ". PW may be great but will be a long time coming IMHO.

You guys on the Matrix team have done great things with this old game, especially in the AI exe. ( which none of us OB editors could have done )

Let me list a bit of what I have seen for all.

The Japanese AI no longer does the Dec 7 attack and then hides in Port the rest of the Game, but will engage.

It is aggressive in different "lines " of attack. East, South and West.

US Air Combat TF`s can actually pull off a " Midway ", something the old Game almost never did because of the AI cheats. ( I only saw one in maybe over 100+ games over 6 years, both PBEM & vs AI ) Think about that !!

The U.S. Air Combat T.F.`s will no longer sail up to engage a Japanese TF in the next hex and then launch all it`s aircraft on an airfield attack 3 hexs away, losing 40% of the AC in the process. ( irregardless if the AC were set to naval interdiction )

The Japanese AI will not delay weeks in taking the oil centers.

The Japanese AI will Garrison important islands, not just take them and re-embark the
landing force on the same turn.

The OB is much more accurate both in units, times of arrival and placement.

I understand the frustration, especially in PBEM games, but this is just soooo close to being what everyone hopes the Game would be
I would hope the Matrix Guys will stay with it. Please.

Longstreet_slith · Post by **Longstreet_slith** » Mon Oct 16, 2000 8:45 pm

I strongly agree with your comments! I hope everyone really does appreciate the time and effort the Matrix team has put forth in revitalizing and dramatically improving this old classic. Please, please do not think of this just as a filler until the new game comes out. I, too, am looking forward to the new Pacific War but I am quite happy with the remake of this classic game!

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Mon Oct 16, 2000 10:20 pm

Hi everyone Major Tom wait till Mandaly runs out of supply and the IJA is in India if you think supply problem there is not critical. You can't train aircraft there or fleet and active air units run out of gas. I am in March 42 and it is very bad every where. As to fixing this game..yes by all means as long as it does not delay/interfer with "Struggle against Japan" Matrix needs this new game more (its worth money)

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

BPRE · Post by **BPRE** » Mon Oct 16, 2000 11:49 pm

Hi,

Since I haven't had the time to run a real game yet I've been letting the AI play both sides against itself (Both computer).
I've then noticed that Burma/India hasn't been receiving any supplies. Checking the port of India showed that it was completely empty of MCS.
I sent a Cargo TF from Columbo to India with MCS and after that the routine supply started
flowing again.
I don't know if this is the solution for your
PBEM problems but you could check.

Major Tom · Post by **Major Tom** » Tue Oct 17, 2000 2:44 am

I think that I know what is up with the Allied lack of a supply phase in the PBEM addition.

In the game there are a few phases...

Start Game (historical Turn)
The IJ player watches the turn
Then watches the supply phase
Then does the turn
Then saves the file and mails it to the opponent

The Allied player watches the VCR turn
Then does the turn
Then saves the file and mails it to the opponent

etc.

Unfortunatey the Allied supply phase is left out of the equation. It should either be added before the Japanese player saves the game, or before the Allied player goes to the operational phase of the saved game (the last option is the most optimal, but the first one more practical).

The Problem is, is when you load up a saved game (ANY save file) it already assumes that the supply phase has gone by (PacWar was designed for Hot seat and AI opponents, not PBEM opponents, when you save a file it assumes that you have already gone through the supply phase and am planning to work on the file at another time) and skips directly to the orders phase. When the Japanese player loads up the game, it is like the game was saved on the TURN BEFORE the action starts (ie the second turn of an unhistorical first turn for the Japanese player is still based on Dec 7, 1941 showing the actions of that turn). They get to see the action for the previous turn, then see the supply phase for the current turn, then do the orders phase.

In the old days, PBEM's were done by the IJ player ending their turn, the Allied supply phase goes by, and they immediately save the game (or they save the game before they end their turn and then mail it off). This doesn't allow for the 'VCR' option, plus it relies more on opponent loyalty (even though it is very easy to hack into the files anyway). You can play PBEM games this way, but, without the current 'luxuries'.

I am beginning to think that it could be possible to add on the Allied supply phase relatively easily (this from a non-programmer!

), but, it will most likely occur at the end of the Japanese turn ('all' they would have to change is when the option to save the game appears, instead of right when the Japanese orders phase is concluded it will appear after the Allied player's supply phase is done). It would be difficult to break into PacWar's handling of saved games (or else it could cause another bug, being that when you load up a saved game you will immediately get a routine convoy phase! Really nasty when you save and load a single turn multiple times!), but it wouldn't be AS difficult to work into code created by the Matrix team to handle the PBEM save files. However, this change should appear only for the Japanese player, as, if the Allied save period was extended it would go into the actual next turn, then you would have the same problems with the Japanese supply phase!

Mogami, I think we should wait until this problem has been addressed before we continue. You wouldn't want your victory to be haunted with the fear that you won because I had no supplies

Actually, until this has been fixed, no PBEM game is truely fair.

Rich Dionne · Post by **Rich Dionne** » Tue Oct 17, 2000 4:27 am

I think you have it right, Jeremy. In the attempt to make the PBEM full-proof, the Allied convoy phase was accidentally left out. I think (hope!) it is a relatively easy fix. I think it could be worked so that when the Japanese player selects 'end turn', he is prompted to save, and then sends his file to the Allied player, as current. The fix would be that the Allied convoy phase runs at the start of Allied turn, when it previously had. I don't think it needs to be run at the end of the Japanese players turn.

It sounds like there is a second problem here with games against an AI Japanese player. Are Allied players seeing major problems with supply in non-PBEM games?

Regards,

Rich

Drex · Post by **Drex** » Tue Oct 17, 2000 4:50 am

My opponent and I just cancelled our Pbem game because he kept losing units on transports and I was never getting supply convoys. We will play solitaire games until the bugs are fixed. Until then we still have SPWAW.

Andrew Brown · Post by **Andrew Brown** » Tue Oct 17, 2000 10:17 am

Just a quick note.

I am playing a game (version 2.1) against a Japan AI and I have not had any problem with supplies at all. NZ, Australia, India etc. all have plenty of supply and supply convoys seem to be working fine. I am up to mid-April 1942. So there is another datapoint.

GREAT game by the way

Horrido · Post by **Horrido** » Wed Oct 18, 2000 2:46 am

I had no problems with suppy in an Allied vs. Japanese AI game that ended in Jul 43 (ver 2.0). The AI seemed to be getting supplied, too (based on captured supply at bases).

Also - I agree that PacWar is not just a stepping stone until WitP is complete. There are a LOT of big ifs that must be satisfied WitP knocks PacWar off the top of the hill. PacWar has stood the test of time, and Matrix polished up a gem. I think this is the best computer wargame available (maybe tied with War in Europe). I'd love WitP to be better, but I wouldn't bet the farm that it will be playable until after several patches (based on Grigsby's record, with all due respect). Even PacWar was a mess when initially released (if my aged memory serves me right).

Major Tom · Post by **Major Tom** » Wed Oct 18, 2000 4:46 am

The problem only occurs in PBEM games.

Anyway, the Matrix team has solved the problem and is going to have this thing fixed in the latest patch (2.2).

Jeremy,

Dgold · Post by **Dgold** » Wed Oct 18, 2000 6:39 am

I am playing a the US against the Japanese AI - up to March, 1942. The only bases that are getting routine supply are India, Columbo, Brisbane, Melbourne, Auckland and Pearl. None of my other non-isolated bases are getting routine supply. I have 10 or so MS units sitting in Los Angeles as well as Calcutta and lots of MS in the pools. Anyone else have this problem?

Ricochet · Post by **Ricochet** » Wed Oct 18, 2000 7:02 am

One way to get routine supply to 'move around' is to relocate HQ to a specific location for the specific purpose of building ip supply; just be careful!!

I actually got the computer to run routine supply into Rangoon! It occurred after Japanese forces were ejected outside of Rangoon. A massive allied force buildup outside Bangkok resulted in the computer starting to run routine convoys to Rangoon.

moore4807 · Post by **moore4807** » Wed Oct 18, 2000 9:21 pm

I agree with Major Tom that game is MUCH better with new version by Matrix. Kudos to those who labored on it.
By the way- WHY do computer controlled Allied commands INSIST on keeping MCS that are sent out of PH or West Coast bases- It takes approx 2-3 mos before MCS TF will return from destination- unless I disassemble it and Recreate it to go back?
(this is playing solitare game against Jap AI)