B-17s and Warships

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moses
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RE: B-17s and Warships

Post by moses »

To return to the original post---the bombers were not flying at 6,000 ft but at 15,000. So the issue is not altitude.

The real issue here, I think, is how the carriers are employed. I had a large airbase at Numea with 40+ B17's, 16 SBD's and between 60-80 fighters. I have 3 smaller supporting airbases in the immediate vicinity all with fighters.

The carriers came down straight from the north between Suva and Numea and then moved west to a position two hexes south of Numea. There was no apparent effort made to suppress my airbases as his carrier strikes all hit shipping or my port. I saw his carriers two turns out so I was able to reset my aircraft settings to best defend against carriers.

So my aircraft got a free shot and I got lucky. I got two 500lb bomb hits from the B17's but the real killer was the 1000lb bomb from the one SBD that got through. I have no way of knowing for sure but I suspect this one hit did most of the damage.

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rtrapasso
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RE: B-17s and Warships

Post by rtrapasso »

Problem is that since B-17's were never used historically at 6000 ft against warships at sea, the results we get doing so in WITP is just somebody's guess.

Again, B-24s WERE employed in this fashion with good results. B-17s had been largely phased out of front-line duties by that point.
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witpqs
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RE: B-17s and Warships

Post by witpqs »

ORIGINAL: dpstafford

Problem is that since B-17's were never used historically at 6000 ft against warships at sea, the results we get doing so in WITP is just somebody's guess. And probably a bad one. My suggestion of abstracting altitude out of the game solves the problem neatly. And makes the game more realistic (which is NOT a dirty word).

Abstracting out altitude would not make the game more realistic, it would make it more abstract. That would be fine if that's what you want. Most players want a greater degree of control - look at all the posts on altitude of CAP, bombers versus flak, etc. Abstracting by taking the historical results and applying them in a statistical way (I only assume this is what you mean - please correct if otherwise [:)]) is not more realistic, because it leaves out the choices that were not made during the war but that could have been made.

Coming up with a more accurate model for hits by aircraft at various altitudes, etc. would be, well, more accurate. By the way, if the real deal (historical/actual capability) is fewer hits at 6,000 ft, then I'm all for it. It would be great if the hit model for aircraft attacking ships were even more sophisticated, but that would only happen with, say, WiTP II.

Also by the way, this extends to such things as readiness rates for aircraft. On that score we have a model that does not distinguish between aircraft types, so we're kinda stuck with what we have. I realize that (with maybe minor changes excepted) we have what we have at this point.
ORIGINAL: dpstafford
Now get yourself back to that Hollywood movie version on WITP where Benifer Quafflack wipes out the entire IJN in his low flying B-17.
Low blow.

(Hey, if that a Ben Affleck poster I see behind you? [:'(])
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Nikademus
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RE: B-17s and Warships

Post by Nikademus »

hey!

it was perfectly normal for fighter jocks already assigned to a fighter squadron to reassign to be bomber pilots. Especially if they have big chins. (they figure it's additional armor against flak)

[:'(]
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testarossa
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RE: B-17s and Warships

Post by testarossa »

Not to put some more gas into the fire...[:)]

Any level bomber will get higher hit probability the lower the altitude. Except the ones with Norden sight which suffer penalty below 5000 ft (or is it 6000?). The consequences are higher Op losses, higher flack losses and drastic drop in morale and something like 20-30 fatigue. This is actually a last resort tool. I used it once for B-17E against the Death Star and scored 1 hit (i lost 9 from 24 a/cs).

But i use B-25, B-26 and Hudsons usually on Naval strike with 50% search at 6000ft. As soon as they detect something i reduce range to normal and drop the altitude to 1000 ft and search to 20%. Twin engined bombers suffer much less Op losses, get less fatigue and morale drop is acceptable.

The most important factor in level bombing attacks against shipping is number of bombs, experience, and altitude. Of course this is not a dogma, just an opinion.
John III
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RE: B-17s and Warships

Post by John III »

I KNEW by starting this thread that EVERYONE would jump in! Rather entertaining...

As a Japanese player, I am NOT a 'fan boy' in this area. The simple truth is based upon DOCTRINE. As with the Japanese Sub Thread (being consistent) currently running, I believe that Doctrine shapes everything. As players, we want to do things differentely and complain when we cannot. Problem is, and I think the game designers have this right, you simply cannot change 20+ years of Naval and Air Doctrine overnight.

Army Bombers SUCKED at hitting ANY moving target from High Altitude. Weren't trained for it and couldn't do it. Now against a land base--LOOK OUT!


John III
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RE: B-17s and Warships

Post by John III »

Why is this in the war room? Look at the great tactics and strategy discussion going on! That is why...
EasilyConfused
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RE: B-17s and Warships

Post by EasilyConfused »

ORIGINAL: John III

Why is this in the war room? Look at the great tactics and strategy discussion going on! That is why...

That would include pretty much every thread in the general forum. Someone always mentions how they do something in game. Its not a big deal or anything, its just that when I see the thread title I assume its related to a strategy with B-17s, not an argument about the accuacy of the simulation.
Toast
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RE: B-17s and Warships

Post by Toast »

ORIGINAL: testarossa

Not to put some more gas into the fire...[:)]

Any level bomber will get higher hit probability the lower the altitude. Except the ones with Norden sight which suffer penalty below 5000 ft (or is it 6000?). The consequences are higher Op losses, higher flack losses and drastic drop in morale and something like 20-30 fatigue. This is actually a last resort tool. I used it once for B-17E against the Death Star and scored 1 hit (i lost 9 from 24 a/cs).

But i use B-25, B-26 and Hudsons usually on Naval strike with 50% search at 6000ft. As soon as they detect something i reduce range to normal and drop the altitude to 1000 ft and search to 20%. Twin engined bombers suffer much less Op losses, get less fatigue and morale drop is acceptable.

The most important factor in level bombing attacks against shipping is number of bombs, experience, and altitude. Of course this is not a dogma, just an opinion.

The real question here, to determine if the game is "unrealistic" is how often does this happen in a game. In my 200+ PBEM turns of playing both as the Japanese and the Allies, I have never seen it happen. I've had B-17's plaster a port where several ships were docked and did significant damage, but never a ship at sea. If it is a very rare occurance, I can live with that. It is realistic in my opinion that the B-17's might be able to get a lucky hit every once in a while. If the Japanese put their capital ships in harms way enough, they will get hit by some B-17's.

And I think it is not a question of doctrine per se. The Americans thought before the war that the B-17's would be excellant anti-ship weapon. Experience proved otherwise but throughtout the first half of 1942, they tried to employ them that way. And then there is the issue of expediency and theater emergencies. If the KB sailed past a base with B-17's and started to attack Allied shipping to the rear, I think the Allies would have sent the B-17's after the KB. And they could have gotten lucky.

As moses pointed out in his post, you made the cardinal sin of placing un-reduced airbases between your carrier force and it's home base. No commander would have left surviving air units across his line of communications. WHen you make bold and risky moves like that, you have to be aware that things can go terribly wrong.

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Tom Hunter
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RE: B-17s and Warships

Post by Tom Hunter »

At the start of "The Imperialism" the Japanese CVs raided South to Noumea, something that they never did historically.

During the raid they found and sunk the Enterprise in port. The Japanese never sank a US CV in port.

The fact that I left the Enterprise exposed has nothing to do with the arguement. It could not possibley be my fault, its a-historical and I want my CV back.

Of course the truth is I did something stupid and got bombed. Get used to it, what were you doing steaming around there without suppressing the airfields?

I'll point out that later on in the same game I did a CV raid without planning the suppression strikes well enough and lost the Saratoga. I am about as sympathetic as an abandond parking lot covered with broken glass. Something was going to get you, and as Moses said it was the diver bombers that really nailed your ship, the B17s are just icing.
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Tanaka
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RE: B-17s and Warships

Post by Tanaka »

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Besides the SINGLE attack by Nells on PoW/Repulse, show me where Bettys and Nells regulary managed to put topedoes into Allied vessels.

Oh, but you weren't going to complain about that bit of fantasy, were you.

-F-

fb.asp?m=774340&key=betty%2Ctorpedo



The next day, the carriers again launched strikes on Formosa. During the ensuing night retirement, the formation again came under attack by Japanese torpedo-carrying "Betties" which struck home this time and damaged Canberra (CA-70). The Sullivans then helped to protect the damaged cruiser. On the 14th, "Betty" torpedo bombers scored against Houston (CL-81). The Sullivans soon joined the screen which guarded the two battle-battered cruisers as they retired toward Ulithi.

http://www.sullivans.navy.mil/dd537.html

The Japanese attempted to strike back through the air. On the 18th the ship's guns claimed their first victim but four days later a Japanese "Betty" bomber sneaked in, flying low over the still-contested Saipan hills and found two anchored battleships. Crossing the bow of USS Pennsylvania (BB 38), she dropped a torpedo which opened a gaping hole in Maryland's bow, portside.

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/shi ... 46-md.html

The Japanese tried again the next day, this time with 27 "Betty" bombers fitted with aerial torpedos and an escort of 15 "Zeros". Once more, they failed to locate the U.S. aircraft carriers, but made a daring low-level torpedo attack on the Vice Admiral Turner's amphibious force. Turner skillfully maneuvered his ships in the sound between Guadalcanal and Tulagi, throwing off the enemy's aim. Only one torpedo scored, hitting destroyer Jarvis in the bow.

http://www.thehistorynet.com/wwii/bltac ... ndex1.html

The invasion was deceptively easy; the Japanese were taken by surprise. It couldn't last and, on the following day, WILSON helped to fight off dozens of Japanese "Betty" twin-engined torpedo bombers as the enemy air fleet struck at the transports in the anchorage. A destroyer and a transport succumbed to the attack. WILSON was ordered to take the place of the stricken destroyer.

http://www.destroyers.org/nl-histories/dd408-nl.htm

As the Bettys entered Chicago's circle of escorts, additional Wildcats joined the fray: the four Kilpatrick and Porter had left behind, as well as four more led by CDR Jimmy Flatley. Despite the vigorous anti-aircraft fire from ships below, the airmen pressed home their attacks. Flying at masthead level, the Wildcats' .50-calibers brought down one bomber, then three more, and as the enemy fled Task Force 18's defensive circle, two or three more. By most accounts, a single Betty survived the attack.

But the well-trained enemy crews had completed their mission. Despite a desperate, last minute attempt by Navajo to turn Chicago's bow to the attackers, four torpedoes slammed against the cruiser's already-battered starboard side and detonated. A fifth torpedo struck destroyer La Vallette DD-448, killing 21.

In moments it was clear Chicago's fate was sealed, and she was ordered abandoned. In her remaining 20 minutes of service, her men calmly evacuated their wounded and then abandoned ship themselves: 1049 survivors were rescued. At approximately 1715, the cruiser rolled to starboard and slipped under the waves, stern first. Chicago was the last major American warship lost in the struggle for Guadalcanal.

http://www.cv6.org/1943/rennell/default.htm

He was spot on, a desperate, and well pressed home attack was carried out by Japanese twin engined torpedo carrying Betty Bombers. 16 were shot down, and we lost 12 carrier borne aircraft. It was the first time that I had been subjected to an enemy air attack, I was staggered just how the Japanese Betty’s could fly through so much flak thrown up by the Fleet’s AA guns, and come through unscathed. I thought no aircraft could survive such a barrage, but they did, as on they came to drop a deadly torpedo at the last moment, then pull into a steep climb trying to escape and head for home, all very scary. It was fortunate at this early stage of the war against Japan, that the frightful weapon of the Kamikaze Aircraft had not been conceived. US Destroyer Mugford was hit, with 22 of her crew dead.

http://www.ahoy.tk-jk.net/Solomons/Prel ... sinth.html


quote:

....Lexington sailed to raid Kwajalein 4 December. Her morning strike destroyed a cargo ship, damaged two cruisers, and accounted for 30 enemy aircraft. Her gunners splashed two of the enemy torpedo planes that attacked at midday, and opened fire ag ain at 1920 that night when a mayor air attack began. At 2322 parachute flares silhouetted the carrier, and 10 minutes later she was hit by a torpedo to starboard, knocking out her steering gear....

... During a Japanese counterattack 20 November, Independence was attacked by a group of planes low on the water. Six were shot down, but the planes managed to launch at least five torpedoes one of which scored a hit on the carrier's starboard quarter. Seriously damaged, the ship steamed to Funafuti 23 November for repairs....

...On 27 January, she sailed from Noumea to escort a Guadalcanal convoy. On the night of the 29th, as the ships approached to that bitterly contested island, Japanese aircraft attacked the force and the Battle
of Rennell Island was underway. During the attacks, two burning Japanese planes silhouetted CHICAGO, providing light for torpedo attacks; two hits caused severe flooding and loss of power. By the time the attack ended, fine work on board had checked CHICAGO's list. LOUISVILLE (CA-28) took the disabled ship in tow and was relieved by a tug the following morning. During the afternoon, the Japanese attacked again and, despite heavy losses, managed to hit the disabled cruiser with four more torpedoes which sank her at 11d 25m S., 160d 56m E...

Source: DANFS on Hazegray

quote:

....Three fast carrier groups arrived undetected daybreak of the 17th, sinking two destroyers and 200,000 ton s of merchant shipping in 2 days of almost continuous attacks. Moreover, the carrier raid demonstrated Truk's vulnerability and thereby greatly curtailed its usefulness to the Japanese as a base. The night of 17 February 1944 an aerial torpedo struck Intrepid's starboard quarter, 15 feet below her waterline, flooding several compartments and jamming her rudder hard to port....

...In a devastating 3 days of
attacks, naval air forces did much to destroy Formosa as a supporting
base for the Japanese in the island battles still to come. Japanese
forces retaliated with heavy and repeated land-based aircraft attacks.
HOUSTON splashed four aircraft in one attack on 12 October, and helped
repel another attack next day, in which CANBERRA suffered damage. Taking CANBERRA's old station 14 October, HOUSTON and other ships met another heavy raid. Her gunners shot down three of the attackers but a fourth's torpedo hit her engine room, causing loss of power....
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Halsey
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RE: B-17s and Warships

Post by Halsey »

1001 times.

This is a game.
This is a simulation.
Some is historical.
A lot of it isn't.[:D]
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Kereguelen
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RE: B-17s and Warships

Post by Kereguelen »

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
Problem is that since B-17's were never used historically at 6000 ft against warships at sea, the results we get doing so in WITP is just somebody's guess.

Again, B-24s WERE employed in this fashion with good results. B-17s had been largely phased out of front-line duties by that point.

Well, this is not the first thread about the naval attack capabilities of US heavy bombers (and certainly not the last).

I always wondered for what purpose the USN historically used their own Liberators (PB4Y-1 and PB4Y-2). Many were needed to close the "Atlantic Gap" against the German U-Boats, but the others? Seems that quite a lot were in the Pacific (not surprising, considering that the USN received about 1,000 PB4Y-1 and 800 PB4Y-2). Guess that they did not realize how worthless the B-17 had been!

Stupid USN, stubbornly employing heavy bombers that were useless in the anti-shipping role in the SOPAC[:-].
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RE: B-17s and Warships

Post by bilbow »

ORIGINAL: Halsey

1001 times.

This is a game.
This is a simulation.
Some is historical.
A lot of it isn't.[:D]


And NO game will ever be completely historical simply because of the hindsight factor. We all know what happened, and will play to try to improve on that. That's why it's called a game!
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile- hoping it will eat him last
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Bradley7735
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RE: B-17s and Warships

Post by Bradley7735 »

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
Problem is that since B-17's were never used historically at 6000 ft against warships at sea, the results we get doing so in WITP is just somebody's guess.

Again, B-24s WERE employed in this fashion with good results. B-17s had been largely phased out of front-line duties by that point.

Well, this is not the first thread about the naval attack capabilities of US heavy bombers (and certainly not the last).

I always wondered for what purpose the USN historically used their own Liberators (PB4Y-1 and PB4Y-2). Many were needed to close the "Atlantic Gap" against the German U-Boats, but the others? Seems that quite a lot were in the Pacific (not surprising, considering that the USN received about 1,000 PB4Y-1 and 800 PB4Y-2). Guess that they did not realize how worthless the B-17 had been!

Stupid USN, stubbornly employing heavy bombers that were useless in the anti-shipping role in the SOPAC[:-].

B-24's sank the Abukuma. Granted, she was damaged already, but it was US 4e bombers that finished her.
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anarchyintheuk
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RE: B-17s and Warships

Post by anarchyintheuk »

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
Problem is that since B-17's were never used historically at 6000 ft against warships at sea, the results we get doing so in WITP is just somebody's guess.

Again, B-24s WERE employed in this fashion with good results. B-17s had been largely phased out of front-line duties by that point.

Well, this is not the first thread about the naval attack capabilities of US heavy bombers (and certainly not the last).

I always wondered for what purpose the USN historically used their own Liberators (PB4Y-1 and PB4Y-2). Many were needed to close the "Atlantic Gap" against the German U-Boats, but the others? Seems that quite a lot were in the Pacific (not surprising, considering that the USN received about 1,000 PB4Y-1 and 800 PB4Y-2). Guess that they did not realize how worthless the B-17 had been!

Stupid USN, stubbornly employing heavy bombers that were useless in the anti-shipping role in the SOPAC[:-].

During the early part of the war the USN found out how vunerable Catalinas were in contested or semi-contested airspace, so they needed a long range search a/c that could take some punishment and at least defend itself from other patrol aircraft. I think even IJN floatplanes went after Catalinas. B-24 fit the bill.
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Feinder
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RE: B-17s and Warships

Post by Feinder »

Wednesday 10 December 1941
B-17's, P-40's, and P-35's attack a convoy landing troops and equipment at Vigan and at Aparri in N.Luzon. 1 transport at Vigan is destroyed. The strikes include the much publicized attack of Captain Colin P Kelly Jr of the 14th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 7th Bombardment Group (Heavy) on a warship off Aparri. Captain Kelly, who is killed when his B-17 is shot down by fighters as he is returning to Clark Field, is later posthumously awarded the Distinguished Service Cross (DSC) for destroying a battleship. However, later information reveals that he attacked the heavy cruiser ASHIGARA, probably scoring near misses.


Monday 22 December 1941
9 B-17's from Batchelor Field near Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia, attack shipping in Davao Bay, Mindanao Island and land at Del Monte on Mindanao Island. HQ 7th Bombardment Group (Heavy) and the ground echelon of it's 9th, 11th and 22d Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy) and attached 88th Reconnaissance Squadron (Heavy) arrive at Brisbane, Australia from the US. The air echelons of the 9th and 11th are enroute from the US to Australia with B-17's; the air echelons of the 22d and 88th are operating from Hickam Field, Oahu, Territory of Hawaii until 5 January 1942 and 10 February 1942 respectively with B-17's. The 16th, 17th and 91st Bombardment Squadrons (Light), 27th Bombardment Group (Light) transfer from Ft William McKinley to Lipa Airfield, San Fernando and San Marceleno, Luzon respectively without aircraft.

Tuesday 23 December 1941
4 B-17's take off from Del Monte on Mindanao Island after midnight during the night of 22/23 Dec and bomb shipping in Lingayen Gulf, Luzon. 12 P-4O's and 6 P-35's strafe forces landing in San Miguel Bay on Luzon. The Far East Air Force comes under control of the newly-created US Forces in Australia (USFIA). Major General Lewis H. Brereton, Commanding General Far East Air Force, receives orders establishing HQ Far East Air Force at Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia.



Wednesday 24 December 1941
3 B-17's fly from Del Monte, Mindanao Island during the night of 24/25 Dec, bomb the airfield and shipping at Davao on Mindanao Island and land at Batchelor Field near Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia. 2 airplanes leave Manila, Luzon for Darwin with personnel of HQ Far East Air Force. Army Air Force units on Luzon, as well as ground forces, begin moving to Bataan Peninsula. HQ 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy) and the air echelon of the 28th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy) transfer from Clark Field, Luzon to Batchelor Field with B-17's. The ground echelon of the 28th will fight as infantry on Luzon and Mindanao. The air echelon of the 14th Bombardment Group (Heavy), 7th Bombardment Group (Heavy) begins operating from Batchelor Field with B-17's. The ground echelon is still at Clark Field, Luzon. The air echelons of the 16th, 17th and 91st Bombardment Squadrons (Light), 27th Bombardment Group (Light) begin operating from Brisbane, Queensland, Australia with A-24's. The ground echelons will fight as infantry on Luzon. The 17th Pursuit Squadron (Interceptor), 24th Pursuit Group (Interceptor) ceases operating from Clark Field, Luzon with P-40's.



Monday 5 January 1942
B-17's from Malang, Java stage through Samarinda, Borneo during the night of 4/5 January and attack shipping in Davao Bay on Mindanao Island, Philippine Islands. US Forces in Australia (USFIA), which controls FEAF, is redesignated US Army Forces in Australia (USAFIA), and Major General George H Brett assumes command. The ground echelons of the 17th and 91st Bombardment Squadrons (Light), 27th Bombardment Group (Light), transfer from Limay to Bataan Peninsula, Luzon, Philippine Islands. The air echelons are operating from Brisbane, Queensland, Australia with A-24's.


Friday 9 January 1942
B-17's, flying out of Kendari, Celebes Island, strike shipping in Davao Bay, Mindanao, Philippine Islands.



Sunday 11 January 1942
B-17's, out of Malang, Java, attack Japanese landing forces on Tarakan Island off Borneo.



Saturday 17 January 1942
On Celebes Island, B-17's from Malang, Java, staging through Kendari, hit Langoan Airfield and ships in Menado Bay.



Monday 19 January 1942
B-17's, flying out of Malang, Java, attack shipping at Jolo Island in the Philippine Islands. The air echelon of the 9th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 7th Bombardment Group (Heavy), transfers from Singosari to Jogjakarta, Java with B-17's. The ground echelon is at Brisbane, Queensland, Australia. The air echelons of the 11th and 22d Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy), 7th Bombardment Group (Heavy), transfer from Singosari to Jogjakarta, Java with B-17's; the ground echelons transfer from Brisbane, Queensland, Australia to Jogjakarta.



Thursday 22 January 1942
From this date through 3 Feb, B-17's launch at least 15 missions out of Malang, Java against shipping moving through Makassar Strait between Borneo and Celebes Island. 4 missions abort due to bad weather, 6 end with negative results, and the remaining 5 suffer heavy losses but sink 4 ships.



Monday 2 February 1942
Bad weather from now until 18 Feb, along with effective interception by fighters, thwarts attempts of heavy bombers in Java to deliver damaging blows on shipping and airfields in the Netherlands East Indies (NEI). B-17's strikes from Singosari, Java against shipping at Balikpapan, Borneo on 9 Feb and an airfield at Kendari, Celebes Island on 9 Feb are repulsed by fighter attacks. B-17's on a shipping strike claim hits on a carrier near Sinjai, Sumatra.


Tuesday 3 February 1942
Bad weather from now until 18 February, along with effective interception by fighters, thwarts attempts of heavy bombers in Java to deliver damaging blows on shipping and airfields in the Netherlands East Indies (NEI). B-17's strikes from Singosari, Java against shipping at Balikpapan, Borneo on 9 Feb and an airfield at Kendari, Celebes Island on 9 Feb are repulsed by fighter attacks. B-17's on a shipping strike claim hits on a carrier near Sinjai, Sumatra.



Monday 9 February 1942
Between now and 18 February, heavy bombers fly at lesst 14 missions, but they result in claims of only 3 hits on shipping.



Thursday 19 February 1942
In the NEI, A-24's, with P-40 escort, and B-17's operating out of Malang, Madioen, and Jogjakarta, Java, attack vessels landing troops on Bali; the attacks, carried out during the aftenoon of 19 Feb and throughout the morning of 20 Feb, cause considerable damage to vessels but fail to halt the landings; P-40's shoot down or turn back seversl bombers sweeping W over Java. Japanese aircraft attack Darwin, Australia, bombing vessels loaded with troops destined for the defense of Koepang on Timor Island; 10 P-40's sent to Darwin to escort the convoy are almost entirely wiped out by the attack.



Friday 27 February 1942
The Battle of Java Sea. Allied air and naval units try to stop a convoy of some 80 ships approaching Java from the Northeast. All available B-17's, A-24's, P-40's and LB-30's are put into the air but achieve only insignificant results. An Allied naval force, 5 cruisers and 11 destroyers, under Rear Admiral Karel W Doorman, Royal Netherlands Navy, meets the enemy near Surabaya, Java and is decisively defeated, losing 5 ships. Most of the 5th Air Force ground echelon in Java is evacusted by sea. The SS Sea Witch delivers 27 crated P-40's to Tjilatjap, Java, but these will be destroyed to prevent their falling into Japanese hands. 32 P-40's aboard the Seaplane Tender USS Langley (AV-3), which sailed from Australia for India on 23 February, are lost when the USS Langley is sunk by aircraft 100 mi (160 km) South of Tjilatjsp. The pilots are rescued by other vessels in the convoy, but the enemy sinks these ships with the exception of a destroyer, which delivers 2 of the pilots to Perth, Australia. 13th Reconnaissance Squadron (Heavy), 43d Bombardment Group (Heavy), arrives at Melbourne, Australia from the US with B-17's; first mission is October 1942.



Friday 27 February 1942
The Battle of Java Sea. Allied air and naval units try to stop a convoy of some 80 ships approaching Java from the Northeast. All available B-17's, A-24's, P-40's and LB-30's are put into the air but achieve only insignificant results. An Allied naval force, 5 cruisers and 11 destroyers, under Rear Admiral Karel W Doorman, Royal Netherlands Navy, meets the enemy near Surabaya, Java and is decisively defeated, losing 5 ships. Most of the 5th Air Force ground echelon in Java is evacusted by sea. The SS Sea Witch delivers 27 crated P-40's to Tjilatjap, Java, but these will be destroyed to prevent their falling into Japanese hands. 32 P-40's aboard the Seaplane Tender USS Langley (AV-3), which sailed from Australia for India on 23 February, are lost when the USS Langley is sunk by aircraft 100 mi (160 km) South of Tjilatjsp. The pilots are rescued by other vessels in the convoy, but the enemy sinks these ships with the exception of a destroyer, which delivers 2 of the pilots to Perth, Australia. 13th Reconnaissance Squadron (Heavy), 43d Bombardment Group (Heavy), arrives at Melbourne, Australia from the US with B-17's; first mission is October 1942.



Saturday, 9 May, 1942
8 B-26's and a single B-17 attack shipping and seaplanes at Deboyne Island, New Guinea. 8th Bombardment Squadron (Light), 3d Bombardment Group (Light), transfers from Port Moresby, New Guinea to Charters Towers, Australia with A-20's; combat operations continue.



Wednesday, 13 May, 1942
B-17's and B-26's hit shipping and the airfield at Rabaul, New Britain Island. 30th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy), transfers from Cloncurry to Longreach, Australia with B-17's.


Monday, 18 May, 1942
B-17's bomb shipping in Koepang Bay, Timor Island. HQ 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy) and 93d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy) transfers from Garbutt Field to Longreach, Australia with B-17's. Detachment of 28th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy), ceases operating from Perth and returns to Longreach, Australia with B-17's



Friday, 19 June, 1942
B-17s pound shipping and Vunakanau Airfield at Rabaul, New Britain Island.


Thursday, 23 July, 1942
In New Guinea, B-17s, B-26s, A-24s and fighters pound shipping, landing barges, storage dumps, AA positions, and troop concentrations at Buna and Gona as the enemy pushes inland along the Kokoda trail; fighters also hit the harbor at Salamaua. 93d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy), moves from Longreach to Mareeba, Australia with B-17s, B-24s and LB-30s.

Thursday, 30 July, 1942
B-17s attack shipping in the Solomon Sea East of the Huon Gulf and South of New Britain Island.


Friday, 31 July, 1942
B-17s hit Gona, New Guinea and a nearby transport which had been previously damaged, and bomb Kukum Beach and Lunga landing strip on the North coast of Guadalcanal Island as the US invasion forces leave the Fiji Islands for the Solomon Islands.


Saturday, 1 August, 1942
In New Guinea, B-17s attack installations at Gona and shipping 75 mi (121 km) East of Salamaua in Huon Gulf. HQ 43d Bombardment Group (Heavy) moves from Sydney to Torrens Creek, Australia.

Sunday, 2 August, 1942
In New Guinea, 1 B-17 flies an unsuccessful strike against a cargo vessel 5 mi (8 km) South of Salamaua while another bombs Gona. 64th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 43d Bombardment Group (Heavy), moves from Daly Waters to Fenton Field, Australia with B-17s; first mission is 13 August.


Friday, 7 August, 1942
13 B-17s of the 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy), led by Lieutenant Colonel Richard H Carmichael hit Vunakanau Airfield, New Britain Island, Bismarck Archipelago, in coordination with US Marine Corps (USMC) landings on Guadalcanal Island. B-26s attack Lae, New Guinea, and a B-17 and a B-25 each attack a submarine in the Gulf of Papua. HQ 38th Bombardment Group (Medium) and 405th Bombardment Squadron (Medium) move from Eagle Farms and Ballarat respectively to Breddan Field, Australia with B-25s; first mission is 17 September.

Sunday, 9 August, 1942
B-17s bomb shipping and airfields at Rabaul, New Britain Island and Gasmata Island off the South coast of New Britain Island while B-26s hit the harbor area at Salamaua, New Guinea.


Wednesday, 12 August, 1942
B-17s bomb shipping at Rabaul, New Britain Island, scoring damaging hits on 3 vessels. 71st Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 38th Bombardment Group (Medium), moves from Batchelor Field to Breddan Field, Australia with B-25s; first mission is 15 September.


Thursday, 13 August, 1942
A Japanese convoy, headed toward Basabua near Gona, New Guinea, with 3,000 construction troops, is attacked first by B-17s 76 mi (122 km) NE of Gona, followed by B-26s 20-25 mi (32-40 km) N of Gona and another B-17 attack as the convoy approaches landing position. In New Guinea, Japanese ground forces attack at Deniki, driving Allied forces back about 5 mi (8 km) and firmly securing the Buna-Kokoda trail.


Friday, 14 August, 1942
B-17s attack shipping off Gona, New Guinea.

Wednesday, 19 August, 1942
B-17s bomb shipping on Faisi Island, Shortland Islands, Solomon Islands.

Sunday, 30 August, 1942
B-17s attack shipping in Saint George's Channel between New Ireland and New Britain Islands.

Sunday, 6 September, 1942
In New Guinea, P-400s, A-20s, and B-17s strafe and bomb positions, troops, and shipping at Myola, Mubo, Kokoda, Myola Lake, Eora Creek, and Milne Bay; Australian ground forces continue to clear the enemy from the Milne Bay area while Australian troops in the Owen Stanley Range fall back to the vicinity of the Efogi Spur beyond Gap Mountain, where defensive positions are already established.

Friday, 11 September, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s and B-26s hit Efogi and Menari in the Owen Stanley Range and Buna Airfield; B-17s, along with RAAF Hudsons, attack 2 destroyers 20 miles (32 km) East of Normanby Island; a B-17 scores a direct hit on the stern of the destroyer Yayoi, which later sinks


Saturday, 12 September, 1942
P-400s, B-26s, A-20s, and B-17s bomb the airfield and strafe barges at Buna, New Guinea. P-40s strafe Gadaibai on Goodenough Island. A B-17 strafes a vessel in Bismarck Sea S of Kavieng, New Ireland Island, Bismarck Archipelago.


Sunday, 13 September, 1942
B-26s pound the airfield at Lae, New Guinea. B-17s unsuccessfully attack a cruiser Southeast of Rabaul, New Britain Island, Bismarck Archipelago. P-40s strafe buildings on Goodenough Island.

Wednesday, 16 September, 1942
B-17s bomb the wharf and airfield at Rabaul, New Britain Island and airfield on Gasmata Island off the South coast of New Britain Island. In New Guinea, a lone B-17 attacks landing barges in the Sanananda area while a single A-20 bombs and strafes positions at Nauro and Menari in the Efogi area; the Japanese ground offensive toward Port Moresby comes to a halt at Ioribaiwa; Australians are entrenched on Imita Range where they are preparing a counteroffensive.

Saturday, 19 September, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s and B-26s strafe and bomb the airfield at Lae; and the 7th Fighter Squadron, 49th Fighter Group, moves from Batchelor, Australia to Port Moresby with P-40s. B-17s attack cargo vessels near Umboi (Rooke) Island between New Guinea and New Britain Island. A whaling vessel is strafed by fighters off Goodenough Island.

Tuesday, 22 September, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s bomb and strafe occupied areas at Menari, Efogi, Nauro, Yodda, and Kokoda; P-40s strafe AA positions, huts, and barges at Buna and Salamaua and bomb and strafe Wairopi bridge, strafe buildings at Yodda, the airfield at Buna, and AA positions and other targets along the Buna-Kokoda trail; 1 B-25 bombs the North end of Buna Airfield and the coastal end of Sanananda track. B-17s bomb the airfield and shipping at Rabaul, New Britain Island.

Thursday, 24 September, 1942
B-17s bomb shipping at Rabaul, New Britain Island. In New Guinea, P-40s and A-20s hit Mubo while B-17s bomb wrecked vessel at Gona; P-40s hit the airfield at Kokoda and targets along the Kokoda-Wairopi trail, including a bridge at Wairopi.

Saturday, 26 September, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s bomb and strafe forces North of Ioribaiwa and along the Efogi-Menari trail in support of the Australian counteroffensive in Papua; and a B-17, along with RAAF aircraft, bomb Buna Airfield. B-17s strike shipping and airfield at Rabaul, New Britain Island.

Friday, 2 October, 1942
In the Owen Stanley Range of New Guinea, A-20s bomb and strafe Japanese campsites around Myola and hit several trails in the area, while P-400s strafe bridges at Sirorata and Wairopi and a village Northeast of Wairopi. B-17s bomb shipping and airfield at Rabaul on New Britain Island, Bismarck Archipelago.

Thursday, 15 October, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s and P-40s pound forces South of Templeton's Crossing and at Popondetta; B-25s bomb Salamaua and hit targets in the Owen Stanley Range and in the area around the bridge at Wairopi. A single B-17 attacks shipping near Treasury Islands, Solomon Islands.

Sunday, 18 October, 1942
B-17s attack shipping and aircraft in the Faisi area in the Shortland Islands, Solomon Islands, schooners and buildings at Lorengau on Manus Island, Admiralty Islands, Kahili Airfield, and shipping off Kahili, Pupukuna Point, and Buin on Bougainville Island. In New Guinea, B-25s hit Wairopi bridge in the Owen Stanley Range, the village of Mubo, and the dock and occupied area on Pilelo Island; the Fifth AF completes the air movement of most of the 128th Infantry Regiment, 32d Infantry Division, to Wanigela; and the 39th Fighter Squadron, 35th Fighter Group, moves from Townsville, Australia to Port Moresby with P-38s.

Sunday, 25 October, 1942
13 B-17s bomb shipping at Rabaul, New Britain Island. In New Guinea, A-20s bomb and strafe the Isurava-Kokoda trail, the W bank of the Kumusi River, and the area North of Asisi as Australian ground forces push toward Kokoda in the Owen Stanley Range; and HQ 38th Bombardment Group (Medium) and the 405th Bombardment Squadron (Medium) move from Townsville, Australia to Port Moresby with B-25s. The 93d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy), begins a movement from Mareeba, Australia to the US.

Wednesday, 28 October, 1942
B-17s pound shipping in the harbor at Rabaul, New Britain Island, while B-25s bomb the airfield on Gasmata Island off the South coast of New Britain Island.


Thursday, 29 October, 1942
A-20s hit the Isurava-Deniki and Abuari-Kaile trails, New Guinea; B-17s attack shipping in BougainvilleStrait between Buin, Bougainville Island and Faisi Island, Shortland Islands. The 71st Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 38th Bombardment Group (Medium), moves from Townsville, Australia to Port Moresby with B-25s.


Friday, 30 October, 1942
B-17s bomb harbor and shipping at Buin, Bougainville Island.


Saturday, 31 October, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s bomb and strafe Nauro and the area to N; B-25s strafe supply trucks Southeast of Gona. B-17s bomb shipping at Rabaul, New Britain Island, and in Buin, Bougainville-Faisi Island-Tonolai, Bougainville Island area.

Sunday, 1 November, 1942
B-25s bomb the airfield and dump area at Lae, New Guinea. In the Solomon Islands, B-17s strike shipping in the Buin, Bougainville Island-Faisi Island, Shortland Islands-Tonolai, Bougainville Island area. Kahili Airfield on Bougainville Island is also attacked. A detachment of the 33d Troop Carrier Squadron, 315th Troop Carrier Group, begins operating from Cairns, Queensland, Australia with C-47s (squadron is enroute to Australia from the US).

Monday, 2 November, 1942
B-26s bomb Dili, Timor Island, Lesser Sunda Islands. B-17s attack shipping Northeast of Buna, New Guinea while B-25s strike at a convoy South of New Britain Island, Bismarck Archipelago. In New Guinea, Australian ground forces seize Kokoda in the Owen Stanley Range with its airfield after long days of fighting; this will greatly facilitate supply and reinforcement of troops in this area as they push over the mountains toward the Buna-Gona area.


Tuesday, 3 November, 1942
B-26s bomb Dili, Timor Island. B-17s bomb the airfield and wharf at Lae, New Guinea, and attack a ship South of Gasmata Island off the S coast of New Britain Island.


Wednesday, 4 November, 1942
B-26s bomb Aileu on Timor Island. In New Guinea, B-17s and B-25s bomb the town and harbor of Salamaua; A-20s hit troop concentrations at Oivi, where an Australian attack meets firm resistance; transports fly most of the remainder of the 128th Infantry Regiment, 32d Infantry Division, to Wanigela. HQ 90th Bombardment Group (Heavy) and the 319th, 320th, 321st and 400th Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy) arrive at Iron Range, Queensland, Australia from Hawaii with B-24s (first mission is 13 November).

Thursday, 12 November, 1942
B-17s bomb shipping at Tonolai harbor on Bougainville Island. In New Guinea, the 3d Battalion of the 126th Infantry Regiment, US 32d Infantry Division, is airlifted from Port Moresby to Pongani; the troops immediately start overland toward Natunga; the 2nd Battalion, flown in earlier, reaches Bofu. HQ 374th Troop Carrier Group is activated at Brisbane, Australia.


Friday, 13 November, 1942
On Bougainville Island, B-17s bomb shipping off Tonolai-Komaleai Point and the airfield at Kahili. A B-17 strafes a schooner in Lorengau harbor on Manus Island, Admiralty Islands.


Saturday, 14 November, 1942
In New Guinea, 1 B-25 bombs and strafes the track North of Soputa; Fifth AF aircraft drop bridging equipment at Wairopi on the Kokoda trail where the Australian 25 Brigade is crossing on improvised bridge; US and Australian forces are consolidating at Natunga and in the Oro Bay-Embogu-Embi areas. 2 B-17s attack transport in the Solomon Islands.


Sunday, 15 November, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s strafe targets near Gona while B-25s and B-26s pound AA positions at Buna and Soputa as US and Australian ground forces prepare to move against the Buna-Gona beachhead. B-17s hit shipping at Rabaul, New Britain Island. The 435th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 19th Bombardment Group (Heavy), begins a movement from Townsville, Australia to the US (the squadron will re-equip with B-29s and return to the Pacific in August 45).

Wednesday, 18 November, 1942
In New Guinea, B-25s bomb them airfields at Lae and Salamaua; B-17s attack warships 50 miles (80 km) Southwest of Gasmata Island located off the South coast of New Britain Island, 17 miles (27 km) North of Buna, and between Gona and Cape Ward Hunt; B-26s bomb and strafe the area between Cape Endaiadere and Buna. The 28th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 7th Bombardment Group (Heavy), begins a movement from Mareeba, Australia to the US (squadron will return to Guam in January, 1945 with B-29s).

Sunday, 22 November, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s pound trails around Sanananda while B-26s hit the Buna area; B-17s and B-25s hit the airfield at Lae and barges between Lae and Salamaua, and attack warships 68 miles (109 km) SW of Arawe, New Britain Island and elsewhere in the Solomon Sea

Tuesday, 24 November, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s, B-25s, B-26s, B-17s, P-40s, P-39s, and P-400s hit Sanananda Point, the Buna area, the Sanananda-Soputa trail S of Sanananda, and the area between Cape Killerton and Sanananda Point as Allied forces launch a ground assault on The Triangle; the attack is repelled by fierce resistance; B-17s also bomb 2 destroyers and a light cruiser between Lae and Finschhafen.

Sunday, 29 November, 1942
In New Guinea, B-17s, P-40s, and A-20s pound the Gona area while B-25s and a single A-20 bomb the airfield at Lae; B-17s intercept a force of 4 troopcarrying destroyers proceeding through Vitiaz Strait between New Britain Island and New Guinea without air cover; the B-17s damage 2 vessels and cause the others to turn back, thus preventing reinforcement of Gona with fresh troops from Rabaul on New Britain Island.

Wednesday, 2 December, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s, B-17s, B-25s and P-400s attack four destroyers off Guna and Gona, and the airfield and positions in the Buna area and between Watutu Point and Cape Killerton. As a result of this attack, the destroyers, originally bound for Gona with 800 reinforcements, lands the troops near the mouth of the Kumment River twelve miles to the north. After a bombardment of Gona, Allied ground forces attack in strength but are again halted short of the village.


Thursday, 3 December, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s, B-25s and P-400s bomb and strafe Sanananda Point and the Buna areas and attack a small torpedo boat in Dyke Acland Bay. During the night of 3/4 Dec, B-17s bomb airfields at Lae and Salamaua. On the ground, the US roadblock on the Soputa-Sanananda trail remains precarious as the Japanese maintain attacks from all sides and hold off US reinforcements. In the Bismarck Archipelago, a lone B-17s attacks a submarine 75 miles southeast of Rabaul, New Britain Island.

Monday, 7 December, 1942
In New Guinea, B-25s pound the area around Buna as ground forces attack the village and clear a trench at the southern edge; B-25s also hit the airfield at Lae. B-17s attack a wrecked vessel off Gona and a tanker off Gasmata Island, Bismarck Archipelago.

Sunday, 13 December, 1942
In New Guinea, a Japanese convoy of five destroyers is detected off Madang, as it attempts to bring in reinforcements for the beachhead in the Buna area. B-17s and B-24s attack as it moves south but fail to deter its progress. Meanwhile A-20s bomb and strafe the Cape Killerton area while B-17s bomb the Salamaua area. In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-26s hit the airfield on Gasmata Island.


Monday, 14 December, 1942
In New Guinea, the five Japanese troop-carrying destroyers attack by Fifth Air Force aircraft yesterday, reach the mouth of the Mambare River and unload without being detected. However, medium and light bombers and fighters, along with Royal Australian Air Force aircraft, subsequently deliver damaging blows against these troops and their supplies and also hit forces along the Kumusi River in the Cape Endaiadere area and along the Mambare River. The five destroyers are attacked off Cape Ward Hunt by medium and heavy bombers. Attacks are also carried out agains the Lae Airfield and the airfield on Gasmata Island, Bismarck Archipelago. On the ground, American troops capture Buna.


Tuesday, 15 December 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s hit Japanese forces along the Mambare River while a B-24 bombs a wrecked ship at Gona.


Wednesday, 16 December, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s and B-26s hit forces in the Buna area and at the mouth of the Kumusi River, and strafe barges on the lagoon shoreline south of the Kumusi's mouth. Meanwhile, B-24s attack a wreck off Gona, a cargo vessel in the Bismarck Sea, and a destroyer, two cargo ships and two tankers in the Solomon Sea, southeast of Cape Orford.

Friday, 18 December, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s hit positions at Kurenada in the Cape Endaiadere area while Allied ground forces launch a concerted assault. B-17s attack a convoy in Astrolabe Bay off Madang, while B-24s bomb the Alexishafen area and other B-24s bomb the airfield at Lae and attack the convoy off Madang and a transport northwest of Lorengau.


Saturday, 19 December, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s and B-25s hit the Buna Mission area in which Australian forces attacking The Triangle are halted by fierce crossfire. B-17s and B-24s attack warships, transports and cargo vessels off Madang in Astrolabe Bay and north northwest of Finschhafen off the coast of Huon Peninsula. Meanwhile, B-25 bomb the Lae Airfield.

Monday, 21 December, 1942
In New Guinea, B-17s attack vessels in Finschhafen harbor while B-24s carry out single-bomber strikes on a cargo ship north of Finschhafen and barges at the mouth of the Mambare River and off Cape Ward Hunt.


Tuesday, 22 December, 1942
In New Guinea, B-25s bomb Maimba mission and the village near Buna when Japanese ground forces continue to resist stubbornly; B-17s hit a ship in the harbor at Arawe. In the Bismarck Archipelago, a single B-24 attacks a transport off Gasmata Island.


Wednesday, 23 December, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s strafe troops near Gona and at Woiba Islands while B-24s attack a cargo ship at Arawe. In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-25s bomb Cape Gloucester Airfield on New Britain Island and attack a ship at Pilelo Island. B-24s carry out single-bomber attacks on a transport west southwest of Cape Orford, a vessel northwest of Lorengau and the Cape Gloucester Airfield.


Thursday, 24 December, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s strafe troops near Kel Kel and along the northern bank of the Amboga River and trail. B-24s, operating singly, bomb Lae, a schooner in Vitiaz Strait, and the harbor at Arawe. In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-17s and B-24s hit shipping and the airfield at Gasmata Island.


Friday, 25 December, 1942
In the Bismarck Archipelago, a B-17 attacks a submarine in Wide Bay off New Britain; one B-24 attacks runways at Cape Gloucester Airfield. In New Guinea, a B-24 bombs Lae.


Saturday, 26 December, 1942
In the Bismarck Archipelago, heavy bombers carry out single-bomber attacks against Cape Gloucester Airfield on New Britain Island and attack shipping off New Britain. In New Guinea, heavy bombers carry out single-bomber attacks against Finschhafen and Madang. Japanese aircraft from Rabaul, New Britain Island attack Doboduru but are driven off by US fighters.


Sunday, 27 December, 1942
In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-17s pound shipping at Rabaul, New Britain Island. In New Guinea, B-26s hit targets in the Gona area while a single B-24 hits the runway at Finschhafen. In their first significant action in the Pacific, a dozen P-38s of the 39th Fighter Squadron, 35th Fighter Group engage some 24 Japanese aircraft, claiming nine Zekes and two Vals shot down for one P-38 damaged.

Wednesday, 30 December, 1942
In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-17s bombs shipping at Rabaul, New Britain Island. In New Guinea, A-20s strafe forces in the Duvira Creek area while B-24s carry out single-bomber attacks on the airfield at Lae, Madang Village, and troops and vehicles at Wewak. A B-17 strafes a schooner in Jacquinot Bay.


Thursday, 31 December, 1942
In New Guinea, A-20s strafe forces in the Sanananda and Giruwa area and along the Amboga River. B-26s pound forces on the north shore of the Markham River near its mouth, while A-20s strafe parked aircraft at Lae In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-24s operating singly, bomb the airfield on Gasmata Island and attack shipping in Wide Bay and Saint George Channel.
"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me

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irishman
Posts: 255
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RE: B-17s and Warships

Post by irishman »

To be fair, I don't think the post is a complete whinge. As a Japanese player there are 2 sides to it. The B-17 is definitely overpowered/ too accurate. But the other Allied level bombers are UNDERPOWERED! When I see an incoming Blenheim or Hudson anti-ship attack, I sit back, have a glass of wine and laugh! They pose no threat whatsoever and only go after BBs and CAs that they can't hurt anyway. When I see even 2 or 3 B-17 Naval bombers approaching its a panic attack!
It's probably a function of the B-17's large bombload (more chances to hit?). The complaint from Japanes fanboys is balanced. Reduce the B-17 vs shipping but OK for an increase in the other LBs.
How about restricting B-17/B-29 to strategic roles only?
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moses
Posts: 2252
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2002 3:39 am

RE: B-17s and Warships

Post by moses »

I really think the solution is just to suppress the airfield. The heavy bombers are REALLLY slow at repairing damaged planes. One good solid airstrike and the bombers are done for at least two weeks.

As the allied player you can really only base them at good sized airfields which are fairly well protected from bombardments and airstrikes. Its not hard for Japan to determine which bases might hold the bombers. If you want to drive your ships to these places you either have to do something about the threat or take your lumps.
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dpstafford
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RE: B-17s and Warships

Post by dpstafford »

ORIGINAL: irishman
When I see an incoming Blenheim or Hudson anti-ship attack, I sit back, have a glass of wine and laugh! They pose no threat whatsoever and only go after BBs and CAs that they can't hurt anyway.
I find this to be particularly mind numbing. That bombers consistently attack ships where they have ZERO chance of scoring a meaningful (penetrating) hit. Maybe they could RANDOMIZE the targets just a little bit more.......
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