Feudal Levels

[ptan54]

When to change? How much to drop it by? And why does morale fall more in some months (-200 or 300) than others (-20 or so)?

[Ralegh]

(A) You don't necessarily want to change it - higher feudal levels do provide good benefits, like some free upkeep, free units each levy, etc as well as some cold hard cash income. Although the reduction in economic efficiency is enough that I usually do want to reduce it.

(B) Every turn it is changing, you will lose 15-20 national morale, with about a 1/3 chance it seems to me of an additional -275 national morale - its random, and can't be predicted.
Note that since feudal level drops gradually, you can be in a position where you can't stop it changing for several months...

(C) 2 different theories about when to do it:
[normal] get your NML nice and high, then watch it drop, when you are at peace so nothing else is hurting your NML at the time
[aggressive] do it during a war, so you can conquer cities to make up for the losses - +75 NML for taking a city is a nice offset

(D) Other coping strategies - before lowering the feudal level:
- drop taxes to under 10 so you are gaining NML from a low tax rate
- increase welfare for the same reason
- take the nationalism upgrades (adds NML anytime you are getting low)

[ian77]

ORIGINAL: Ralegh


(B) Every turn it is changing, you will lose 15-20 national morale, with about a 1/3 chance it seems to me of an additional -275 national morale - its random, and can't be predicted.
Note that since feudal level drops gradually, you can be in a position where you can't stop it changing for several months...

According to the rules, page 54, 6.11.1, National Morale has a 15% chance to be reduced by between 2 and 400 points, otherwise it will be reduced by between 2 and 25 points.

Has this been changed to 33% and 15 - 25 points?

[Mynok]

I've noticed in the Morale History screen that when the big drop hits, there will be two lines in the report for Feudal changes.

[ericbabe]

According to the rules, page 54, 6.11.1, National Morale has a 15% chance to be reduced by between 2 and 400 points, otherwise it will be reduced by between 2 and 25 points.

Has this been changed to 33% and 15 - 25 points?

Still 15% chance of 2-400 drop and 2-25 according to the code, which I will paste here for your viewing pleasure. Oh and note that the loss is a gaussian distribution, not a linear one, which probably accounts for the loss ranges you are seeing:

if (GetGovs(p).FeudalDues!=SelectGovs[p].FeudalDues)
{
if (Random(100)<15)
Do_ModfNationalMorale(p, -Random(200)-Random(200)-2, feudalAdjustment_MoraleMod);
Do_ModfNationalMorale(p, -Random(12)-Random(12)-2, feudalAdjustment_MoraleMod);
PH2_Migrate_Gov(&GetGovs(p).FeudalDues, &SelectGovs[p].FeudalDues,
(int) fChangeMul*Players[p].pGovChange->FeudalDues,
p, STRING__412, STRING__413);
}

[Naomi]

ORIGINAL: ericbabe



if (GetGovs(p).FeudalDues!=SelectGovs[p].FeudalDues)
{
if (Random(100)<15)
Do_ModfNationalMorale(p, -Random(200)-Random(200)-2, feudalAdjustment_MoraleMod);
Do_ModfNationalMorale(p, -Random(12)-Random(12)-2, feudalAdjustment_MoraleMod);
PH2_Migrate_Gov(&GetGovs(p).FeudalDues, &SelectGovs[p].FeudalDues,
(int) fChangeMul*Players[p].pGovChange->FeudalDues,
p, STRING__412, STRING__413);
}

Mind-boggling. --> (@,@)"

[MarcelJV]

Being a code monkey, I find it very clear.[:D]

ORIGINAL: Naomi

ORIGINAL: ericbabe



if (GetGovs(p).FeudalDues!=SelectGovs[p].FeudalDues)
{
if (Random(100)<15)
Do_ModfNationalMorale(p, -Random(200)-Random(200)-2, feudalAdjustment_MoraleMod);
Do_ModfNationalMorale(p, -Random(12)-Random(12)-2, feudalAdjustment_MoraleMod);
PH2_Migrate_Gov(&GetGovs(p).FeudalDues, &SelectGovs[p].FeudalDues,
(int) fChangeMul*Players[p].pGovChange->FeudalDues,
p, STRING__412, STRING__413);
}

Mind-boggling. --> (@,@)"

[Mynok]

As I suspected from the report. The 2 to 25 drop always occurs. The big hit only occurs once in a while.

[mogami]

Hi, I always get the big hits. Sometimes I get them 3 turns in a row. National morale at +500 so I reduce feudal level by 1. 4 months later National morale at -750. [X(] And then I require 6-8 months to get it bact to +100

[Mynok]

Haven't kept up the sacrifices to the Luck gods, eh? [:D]

[mogami]

Hi, I have no luck in games. This is not really bad thing because it forces me to plan around luck. I just make my plans assuming where ever luck is involved it will go against me. When I send an Army it is going to meet my objectives regardless of luck because I built it to be luck proof. I can't think of a game I play where I use tricks or count on luck.

[Ralegh]

Yeah - my comments were from observation, and I completely accept the manual details (I didn't know it was all in there) and eric's code quote of course. Sorry if anyone thought I was saying it was all different: I should have said something about 'from what I';ve seen recently it is something like..."

BTW Mogami, I take that view too - then in the last game, I have 3 x -275 in a row, followed by none for like 16 months - my NML went back up up to 1000 while I was reducing the feudal level.

[ian77]

Max value for NML is 1000 isn't it? [&:] It is just that I seem to recall that the nanual mentions NML >1900 at some point..(I am at work and unable to check exactly where).

So please confirm that it is 1000 max.

Thanks
Ian

EDITED - I forgot I had a copy in my briefcase! Page 55, Glory modifiers, +1 when NML>1500, and +2 when NML exceeds 1900....... [&:][&:][&:]

[Naomi]

ORIGINAL: ian77

Max value for NML is 1000 isn't it? [&:] It is just that I seem to recall that the nanual mentions NML >1900 at some point..(I am at work and unable to check exactly where).

So please confirm that it is 1000 max.

Thanks
Ian

EDITED - I forgot I had a copy in my briefcase! Page 55, Glory modifiers, +1 when NML>1500, and +2 when NML exceeds 1900....... [&:][&:][&:]

You're now confirmed. It can go only as high as 1000.

[YohanTM2]

That would be one of us [:(]

ORIGINAL: MarcelJV

Being a code monkey, I find it very clear.[:D]

ORIGINAL: Naomi

ORIGINAL: ericbabe



if (GetGovs(p).FeudalDues!=SelectGovs[p].FeudalDues)
{
if (Random(100)<15)
Do_ModfNationalMorale(p, -Random(200)-Random(200)-2, feudalAdjustment_MoraleMod);
Do_ModfNationalMorale(p, -Random(12)-Random(12)-2, feudalAdjustment_MoraleMod);
PH2_Migrate_Gov(&GetGovs(p).FeudalDues, &SelectGovs[p].FeudalDues,
(int) fChangeMul*Players[p].pGovChange->FeudalDues,
p, STRING__412, STRING__413);
}

Mind-boggling. --> (@,@)"

[ericbabe]

ORIGINAL: Naomi

ORIGINAL: ian77

Max value for NML is 1000 isn't it? [&:] It is just that I seem to recall that the nanual mentions NML >1900 at some point..(I am at work and unable to check exactly where).

So please confirm that it is 1000 max.

Thanks
Ian

EDITED - I forgot I had a copy in my briefcase! Page 55, Glory modifiers, +1 when NML>1500, and +2 when NML exceeds 1900....... [&:][&:][&:]

You're now confirmed. It can go only as high as 1000.

This is just a manual error. Internally (in the program code) NML is stored as an integer from 0 to 2000, and I guess in this case it crept into the manual.

[carnifex]

So the correct Glory modifiers are

+1 when NML > 500
+2 when NML > 900


?????

[ian77]

ORIGINAL: carnifex

So the correct Glory modifiers are

+1 when NML > 500
+2 when NML > 900


?????

I would guess, so if the range is 0 - 2000, I presume that 0 = -1000NML, and therefore 1500 = 500NML and 1900 = 900NML