New enlistment age

[Graycompany]

Now thats funny, I dont care who you are.

We had a Cpl that looked like a barrel, always had trouble with the test.
was a great marine, and was not fat by any means.

[sfbaytf]

If you ask most professional military people they do not want to go back to a conscripted military. Yes they would like to see more people enlist, but not at the expense of quality. As for war not being glorious, I couldn't agree more. My father served during the Korean war and never had great things to say about it. A couple of his co-wokers and close family friends served during World War 2. I had some interesting conversations about their experiences. 2 of them were in the Marines. One was at Pelieu. The other one at Iwo Jima. To this day the wife of the one who was at Pelieu says it was an unnecessary operation and thousands of young Marines were butchered. I still have his WW2 medals he gave to me as well as his MACV stuff. While all are proud to have served, none ever wanted myself or anyone for that matter to experience what they endured.

As for our on-going war in the Middle East, I have no illusions about any quick end or resolution to the conflict. During the late 70's we moved to the Middle East and lived amongst the people. As many are now discovering the enemy we face don't play by our rules, have nothing to lose and think nothing of death. You have a western anglo-christian army in a largely muslim country with 3 factions that don't like one another and lots of people with nothing better to do willing to migrate to Iraq to take potshots at Coalition forces. Not a good situation. Putting your hope in the iraqis to take over and do the job is dicey, but that's just my opinion, based on my personal observations of the chareteristics of the people who inhabit the region.

The sad part is that many in the know, including many fine professional military people who knew better warned about the long term dangers of invading and occupying Iraq, but were ignored by the current administration. Regardless of the past we will now have to deal with the situation we find ourselves in. Hopefully those responsible have learned something from their mistakes.

IMHO this war will last generations and we don't have unlimited time. We're running huge account deficits-the current deficit projections don't include the cost of the ongoing operations in the middle east, so they are alot worse than the are. The economy could easily go into recession in 1-3 years. If the current housing boom is indeed a bubble and bursts, then we will almost certainly go into a recession and once that happens the center of gravity-the American people could turn against the war in Iraq. We also have the runup in oil prices,driven in large part by increased demand by the Chinese (who are holding a large portion of our debts in the form of US tresuries and bonds) and India, both of which are growing rapidly and will require large amounts of oil to fuel their eonomies.

As for me enlisting? Personally I wouldn't for the simple reason I don't have confidence in the current administration running the country. I voted for them in 2000, but not in 2004-no I didn't vote for Kerry either. I wouldn't put my life on the line for leaders I don't trust, respect or admire. I don't think it's way off the mark to also say that many in the Army don't like Rumsfelt.

In any event the current situation is going to be something that others will have to deal with long after the one's who put us in the situation are gone...

[Terminus]

Well put! [&o]

[usersatch]

I think a draft would be a good idea. Maybe people would think twice about going to war, if they knew their kid was going to be there.

Having been in combat myself, it is indeed the ugliest thing about human-kind. Although it is often necessary to wage war, it, by no means, is glorious. I kind of chuckled when I read that the war-mongering Senator(?) from North Carolina changed his mind about our boys in Iraq after he went to a military funeral. Maybe if more people had the taste, the sounds, the smells, and the memories ingrained in their minds for the rest of their life, we could solve things more peacefully. Maybe?

[Graycompany]

In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
-- (George) Orson Welles

[Oldsweat]

I suspect that the whole idea behind raising the enlistment age is to recoup some of the folks that got rolled out during the force reductions during the 90s. I attended round 1 of the current dust up and would go back if they had something productive for me to do, although I imagine most of my expertise is not terribly in demand just now.

[velkro]

I have a funny feeling that no one alive can think of a peaceful means of preventing the bad folk in this world from killing...

As for sfbaytf's take of, "...As for me enlisting? Personally I wouldn't for the simple reason I don't have confidence in the current administration running the country...."

Yea, right. Moral relativism at its finest. That's just one of thousands of different versions of the simple message, "It ain't for me." Justifications abound aplenty in our free society, thanks to freedom of speech. Big words and intellectual vision will always fail to mask this message. Why not just use the four simple words?

[velkro]

The reason behind the raising of the enlistment age is that it's awful hard to recruit an all-volunteer military during a time of sustained hostilities. This is the first time in our country's history that we've done this. In every major contingency, there's always been the draft (along with moral fortitude among the populace to finish the fight). We'll win this thing, just be patient and glad you're not a terrorist...

[Brausepaul]

ORIGINAL: velkro
...Yea, right. Moral relativism at its finest. That's just one of thousands of different versions of the simple message, "It ain't for me." Justifications abound aplenty in our free society, thanks to freedom of speech. Big words and intellectual vision will always fail to mask this message. Why not just use the four simple words?

One of the worst things to appear in the recent time is the disgusting disapproval of a different opinion.

[velkro]

I'm not going to serve the state because I have no confidence in the state.
I will take from the state, I will enjoy the state, I will raise my family safely in the state, I will play wargames in the state, I will partake of the fruits of the state's roads, aqueducts, and natural resources, but like I said, I have no confidence in the state. The state gives me no confidence. The state's the best in the world, but it gives me no confidence...

Joey, I'm being facetious...this is a position that many Americans have but it's a self-contradicting argument; some "fluff" for their inability to 'nad up and do something in the face of terrorism.

[velkro]

You disapprove of my opinion?

[Brausepaul]

He said he has no confidence in the current government, not in the countries resources or aqueducts. But apparently one isn't allowed to contradict the government anymore.

[joey]

Velkro, I guess you could save I served the state. I served the state for many years. Or maybe I served myself. Confindence in the state? I am not sure that matters. The state is made up of men and women. They have adgendas and are falable, as I am I. We all do what we can. Does that mean we have no confidence in any of us? To have no confidence in the state, any state, does not lead to improvement only bitterness.

[mogami]

Hi, It might be funny to some people but the entire time I was serving in the military I never bothered to worry about who was in charge or why I was being sent. I just could not stand to stay at home while other people were sent. That remains true today. I would not start something so I could go but if we are there I want to be there too. I never worried about why I just want to be there along with the other people serving in the military. I have always liked and admired those I served with and my only worry was not to be with them.

[Graycompany]

You may argue, on both sides, that the current war in Iraq is just, or unjust. That the war was for WMD or for future protection of WMD.
You may argue that it is against terrorism, or that it is against a tyrant
that to long walked this earth, and brought nothing to his people but
sorrow and inhumanity. You may say it is for Oil, or power, or that the Administration is unjust. No matter what reason you believe, for or against this war, one thing stands out. That the people of Iraq will have a chance to have true freedom, something people in the west tend to take for granted, for most born into freedom, and those that have known nothing but freedom, often take it for granted. As for me, I pray, that freedom takes a hold in the middle east, and that the people of Iraq never take for granted the freedom that cost men and women life itself.

[sfbaytf]

Has nothing to do with Moral relativism. As for your preaching about moral fortitude to finish the fight. Perhaps you should enlist if you're not already serving. When you see all of the conservative talking heads on TV and talk radio spouting their mouths off and calling others who may not agree with their point of view cowards, moral weakings and what have you, it amazes me how those who are screaming the loudest for war have never served, nor intend to. Many actually had the gaul to disparage members of the military who spoke out against the war and spoke the truth about the risks and potential costs of the war.

This is exactly the reason why I want nothing to do with them. At least when we had conservatives who had honor and character I could support them. President Reagan was man enough to go in national TV and accept full responsibility for the Iran/Contra affair. As he put it "the buck stops here". The first President Bush had integrity and was wise enough to listen to the military when it came to foreign affairs and war. Unfortunately I can't say this about those who are leading this country today.

So put on your flak jacket and go kill some of the bad guys for us...

[mogami]

Hi, After WWII when did terrorism in Germany end? Not 1945 or 46 or 47 or 48 it was 1949 before the bombings and murders ceased. However the Germans did not target Americans for the most part they targeted other Germans.
It did not matter that Germany overall was better off (human rights wise) after 1945.

[Mike Solli]

I've been in the military for the past 17 years. I came back from a deployment this past spring. Being away from home sucked, but being away from my army buddies would have hurt more. I just volunteered to go to Iraq next year. Why? I don't want to leave my family for 16-18 months but I'm going to command a company I spent 14 years in. I can't bear to see them go and stay home. My wife understands it and agrees with me. Does it have anything to do with the current administration? Of course not. For me, it's being with my army brothers.

[mogami]

Hi, OK Mike I will get my BP down and go with you.

[sfbaytf]

I can respect that and support what you're doing. I just never thought that Iraq was the right place or the right war. I did not believe it was going to the cakewalk as advertised. I really believed we should have focused on Afghanstan and not opened another front in Iraq. Correct me if I'm wrong, but even many in the Army have said basically the same thing. Now that we are in Iraq we need to do our best to finish it, but I would be lying if I didn't say I believe that it will continue to be a festering problem, that in the end may be more trouble than its worth. If indeed the war against terrorists is going to last generations, as I believe it will, then you better pick your fights carefully. No country, even a rich and powerful one like ours can afford to engage in open ended hostilities.