Hi
I'm preparing to play my first game of WiF using the Vassel system. Neither my opponent or I have ever used Vassel before so this may require some assistance. Fortunately, Ken Griffiths has been extremely helpful in getting us started. In order to share his assistance with others playing on Vassel for the first time and to save Ken the trouble of having to e-mail all of us individually, I'm going to post our questions and his answers to this thread. I welcome the comments and advice of other 'Vassel-WiF veterans." I guess you could call this 'The idiots guide to Vassel-WiF.' [:)]
Getting started with WiF using Vassel
Moderator: Shannon V. OKeets
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Cheesehead
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:48 pm
- Location: Appleton, Wisconsin
Getting started with WiF using Vassel
You can't fight in here...this is the war room!
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Cheesehead
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:48 pm
- Location: Appleton, Wisconsin
RE: Getting started with WiF using Vassel
1. Is there a method to random draw of units or do we do that with our
cardboard chits on our own?
A: You can do random selectiona nyway you like, of course, but I put in place a marker for every unit in the game. If you select a unit, right-click on it and you will get a menu of a variety of things that you can do with the unit. This is how you flip the unit or delete, etc. There is also an option called Random Select. Selecting this will place a big white counter over the counter with the words "Random Select" on it. Your opponent can then take all of the units and mix them up in a big stack and then you simply un-Random Select the ones you choose.
2. With PBEM, do we use the same file and send it back and forth with
our moves and dice rolls done on our own or do we maintain separate
files?
A. For PBEM you do this. In the File Menu at the top there will be an option to "Start Logfile". When you begin your turn you select "Start Logfile" and then every move and dice roll will be recorded. You can also type things in the chat window like "Rolling for weather" or whatever. When you're done and ready to send your moves to your opponent, go back to the File menu and the select the option that will now appear called "End Logfile". This will save a Logfile that you can send to your opponent. It's a small text file a few kb big so easy. When you receive a logfile, you open the logfile and there will be a set of VCR-like buttons under the menu. Each clik of the forward button shows one move/roll/comment, etc. that your opponent made.
3. My opponent is concerned about the integrity of the dice roller. If
I, for example, make the weather roll for an impulse that I don't like
what would stop me from creating a duplicate file and rolling a second
time (third time, etc)?
A. As for the dice roller, there is a lot of questions that come up it's randomness (or lack thereof). There is certainly no way to prevent someone from cheating and redoing a log file until you get what you're looking for. Of course, if you redo the logfile then you'll have to start your turn over from the very beginning. The bottom line, a certain level of trust has to be in place between players. I would hope most people realize that WiF is rarely decided on a single roll of the dice.
cardboard chits on our own?
A: You can do random selectiona nyway you like, of course, but I put in place a marker for every unit in the game. If you select a unit, right-click on it and you will get a menu of a variety of things that you can do with the unit. This is how you flip the unit or delete, etc. There is also an option called Random Select. Selecting this will place a big white counter over the counter with the words "Random Select" on it. Your opponent can then take all of the units and mix them up in a big stack and then you simply un-Random Select the ones you choose.
2. With PBEM, do we use the same file and send it back and forth with
our moves and dice rolls done on our own or do we maintain separate
files?
A. For PBEM you do this. In the File Menu at the top there will be an option to "Start Logfile". When you begin your turn you select "Start Logfile" and then every move and dice roll will be recorded. You can also type things in the chat window like "Rolling for weather" or whatever. When you're done and ready to send your moves to your opponent, go back to the File menu and the select the option that will now appear called "End Logfile". This will save a Logfile that you can send to your opponent. It's a small text file a few kb big so easy. When you receive a logfile, you open the logfile and there will be a set of VCR-like buttons under the menu. Each clik of the forward button shows one move/roll/comment, etc. that your opponent made.
3. My opponent is concerned about the integrity of the dice roller. If
I, for example, make the weather roll for an impulse that I don't like
what would stop me from creating a duplicate file and rolling a second
time (third time, etc)?
A. As for the dice roller, there is a lot of questions that come up it's randomness (or lack thereof). There is certainly no way to prevent someone from cheating and redoing a log file until you get what you're looking for. Of course, if you redo the logfile then you'll have to start your turn over from the very beginning. The bottom line, a certain level of trust has to be in place between players. I would hope most people realize that WiF is rarely decided on a single roll of the dice.
You can't fight in here...this is the war room!
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Cheesehead
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:48 pm
- Location: Appleton, Wisconsin
RE: Getting started with WiF using Vassel
1. How do you select (to move) just one counter off of a stack of
counters? Whenever I click and drag the whole stack moves.
a) To view a stack of counters, simply double-click the top counter and it will expand the stack out. From there you can select individual counters to manipulate. If you hold the Shift key down you can select more than one to move as a smaller stack. Also, Shift+arrow key (number pad arrows) will move counters up and down in the stack. Double-click again to compress the stack back.
2. What is the purpose of the different force pool screens? My guess is
that it is to place all the current year counters into the various
labelled boxes (HQ-A, INF, FTR, etc), but whenever I try to drag counters
into the force pool screen, nothing happens. When I click and drag from
the counters section into the force pool screen, the unit I'm attempting
to move ends up on the map underneath the force pool screen.
a) The Force Pools are setup with a button for each Major Power. There are two grids for each MP to place the counters in the pools; the second grid is intended for division-type units. The thing with the Force Pools is that you can only manipulate (i.e. add/remove counters) the Force Pool(s) that corrspond to the Major Power(s) that you selected to play when you started the game. You can view all the Force Pools, but only play around in your pool(s). I'm still debating and looking for inputs if this is the best way to do this. I'm also planning on making a new looking Force Pool grid thingy.
3. What is the 'Load continuation' under File?
a) The Load Continuation is what you select when you are going to continue a game using the Log File. The Log File is what is used when doing a PBEM game.
I don't have anything in the User's Guide so I'll look into putting something in there for the next version due out soon.
Hope this helps.
Ken
counters? Whenever I click and drag the whole stack moves.
a) To view a stack of counters, simply double-click the top counter and it will expand the stack out. From there you can select individual counters to manipulate. If you hold the Shift key down you can select more than one to move as a smaller stack. Also, Shift+arrow key (number pad arrows) will move counters up and down in the stack. Double-click again to compress the stack back.
2. What is the purpose of the different force pool screens? My guess is
that it is to place all the current year counters into the various
labelled boxes (HQ-A, INF, FTR, etc), but whenever I try to drag counters
into the force pool screen, nothing happens. When I click and drag from
the counters section into the force pool screen, the unit I'm attempting
to move ends up on the map underneath the force pool screen.
a) The Force Pools are setup with a button for each Major Power. There are two grids for each MP to place the counters in the pools; the second grid is intended for division-type units. The thing with the Force Pools is that you can only manipulate (i.e. add/remove counters) the Force Pool(s) that corrspond to the Major Power(s) that you selected to play when you started the game. You can view all the Force Pools, but only play around in your pool(s). I'm still debating and looking for inputs if this is the best way to do this. I'm also planning on making a new looking Force Pool grid thingy.
3. What is the 'Load continuation' under File?
a) The Load Continuation is what you select when you are going to continue a game using the Log File. The Log File is what is used when doing a PBEM game.
I don't have anything in the User's Guide so I'll look into putting something in there for the next version due out soon.
Hope this helps.
Ken
You can't fight in here...this is the war room!
RE: Getting started with WiF using Vassel
I was setting up a MP test game with a friend. And it created some questions that I hope might be answered by someone.
I had previously started a new game and had been doing some setting up as the axis. in order to start up the game in MP I sent my friend, my savefile. loaded up vassal and loaded up my save game. He then joined my room and loaded the same save. Then his wife called him and told him to get away from the computer[:D] so we newer really got to test if it was the right procedure, any info on the procedure ?
If the procedure is correct then it would seem, that if you play realtime the last person to log of should save and send the save file to all players before the next session, correct?
I had previously started a new game and had been doing some setting up as the axis. in order to start up the game in MP I sent my friend, my savefile. loaded up vassal and loaded up my save game. He then joined my room and loaded the same save. Then his wife called him and told him to get away from the computer[:D] so we newer really got to test if it was the right procedure, any info on the procedure ?
If the procedure is correct then it would seem, that if you play realtime the last person to log of should save and send the save file to all players before the next session, correct?
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Cheesehead
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:48 pm
- Location: Appleton, Wisconsin
RE: Getting started with WiF using Vassel
By MP do you mean multiplayer?
Are you playing PBEM or online?
Are you playing PBEM or online?
You can't fight in here...this is the war room!
RE: Getting started with WiF using Vassel
ORIGINAL: FaneFlugt.DK
If the procedure is correct then it would seem, that if you play realtime the last person to log of should save and send the save file to all players before the next session, correct?
I have not really tried this myself but I think that's correct. Even better would be to turn on the logfile and save so your opponent can see what changes you've made when he was away.
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Cheesehead
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:48 pm
- Location: Appleton, Wisconsin
RE: Getting started with WiF using Vassel
I'm still working on PBEM at the moment...haven't even looked at online play, yet. Hopefully, someone else can help there.
I did just find out that the USA force pool function does not work in this version. Ken promises it will be fixed in the next...meanwhile, it's not a problem to have the USA use China's force pool.
I did just find out that the USA force pool function does not work in this version. Ken promises it will be fixed in the next...meanwhile, it's not a problem to have the USA use China's force pool.
You can't fight in here...this is the war room!
RE: Getting started with WiF using Vassel
Im doing a Online MP game.
Troubles so far. Can confirm that the US forcepool dosent work. We have some trouble resigning as the leader of our nations, as we started out two players and expanded the game into three players later on. We discovered that you cant be the USSR and France at the same time which should be an option in a threeplayer Wif-total war scenario. Its not big a problem though. The Soviet player can just make a French forcepool at the egde of the map or whereever he would like. the game is perfectly playable.
It would be nice with a sequense of play chart though. And some kind of notebook where you could keep track of your build points but thats luxery. Some attack markers would be great too.
Troubles so far. Can confirm that the US forcepool dosent work. We have some trouble resigning as the leader of our nations, as we started out two players and expanded the game into three players later on. We discovered that you cant be the USSR and France at the same time which should be an option in a threeplayer Wif-total war scenario. Its not big a problem though. The Soviet player can just make a French forcepool at the egde of the map or whereever he would like. the game is perfectly playable.
It would be nice with a sequense of play chart though. And some kind of notebook where you could keep track of your build points but thats luxery. Some attack markers would be great too.
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Griffitz62
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:31 am
- Contact:
RE: Getting started with WiF using Vassel
This is exactly the kind of stuff I like to hear about. I tried to get a message board area on my website, but it would cost me a little bit more than I'm already paying. My wife already gave me crap about paying for a site, but I needed a pay site because the module is so big a free site won't support the bandwidth.
The USA Force Pool problem I have already fixed for the new version. The rest I will look into tonight when I get home from work.
Adding a USSR/France option is easy. I tried to get every combination in there, but I guess I missed some.
The Sequence of Play chart I should be able to add to the pile of charts already in there.
I thought about doing an attack marker, but I'm not sure of the best way to do that. What it should look like and if it's worth having another marker on the board. I rotate the counters to show who is attacking. If there are any thoughts on what to make an attack marker look like I'll take it.
The notebook, I'll have to check on how to do that.
The resigning thing is a little bit odd and I've had issues with it as well. I will look into it and see if there is an easier way to do this.
The new version should be out within the week. It should be compatible with the previous version and adds quite a bit of content as well as the fixes for things that have been found. Including:
Africa Aflame
Mechs in Flames
Asia Aflame
A hex grid has been added so the chat window will report moves made by players
Pre-defined set-ups that will load the force pools for all the different scenarios
Let me know if anyone has other ideas and suggesstions.
Ken
The USA Force Pool problem I have already fixed for the new version. The rest I will look into tonight when I get home from work.
Adding a USSR/France option is easy. I tried to get every combination in there, but I guess I missed some.
The Sequence of Play chart I should be able to add to the pile of charts already in there.
I thought about doing an attack marker, but I'm not sure of the best way to do that. What it should look like and if it's worth having another marker on the board. I rotate the counters to show who is attacking. If there are any thoughts on what to make an attack marker look like I'll take it.
The notebook, I'll have to check on how to do that.
The resigning thing is a little bit odd and I've had issues with it as well. I will look into it and see if there is an easier way to do this.
The new version should be out within the week. It should be compatible with the previous version and adds quite a bit of content as well as the fixes for things that have been found. Including:
Africa Aflame
Mechs in Flames
Asia Aflame
A hex grid has been added so the chat window will report moves made by players
Pre-defined set-ups that will load the force pools for all the different scenarios
Let me know if anyone has other ideas and suggesstions.
Ken
RE: Getting started with WiF using Vassel
Hope you got my mail Griffitz62, there was a link to some nice attack markers i found on the net.
http://homepage.mac.com/iseca/Hobbies/W ... unters.pdf
Anyway here they are again. [:)]
http://homepage.mac.com/iseca/Hobbies/W ... unters.pdf
Anyway here they are again. [:)]
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pak19652002
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:40 am
- Contact:
RE: Getting started with WiF using Vassel
ORIGINAL: Cheesehead
3. My opponent is concerned about the integrity of the dice roller. If
I, for example, make the weather roll for an impulse that I don't like
what would stop me from creating a duplicate file and rolling a second
time (third time, etc)?
For Cyberboard games, we use a third party die roller, ACTS http://acts.warhorsesim.com/home.asp. ACTS simultaneously generates random die rolls and emails them to all players. No way to cheat. It also creates a game log that allows you to review past activities and rolls. Seems to work well for CB. I haven't gotten to play VASSAL yet, but I imagine it would work there also.
RE: Getting started with WiF using Vassel
ORIGINAL: Griffitz62
The USA Force Pool problem I have already fixed for the new version. The rest I will look into tonight when I get home from work.
I'm not sure that keeping the forcepool only editable by the owning player is a good idea. I am playing a PBEM game now and I am unable to check what units for example China has in his forcepool. I am also unable to put units back in his forcepool that I have killed.
Why not allow all players to move counter's around in the forcepool.
I also discovered that the memory crash appears when I have a game loaded and try to load a continuation, then game crashes if I instead just load the game it works ok. Does Vassal support other types of images? With Jpeg compression maybe the maps would be much smaller.
Nícklas
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Griffitz62
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:31 am
- Contact:
RE: Getting started with WiF using Vassel
I went with the current choosing sides/force pool as an early design decision but was never convinced if it was a good idea or not. If I make all the Force Pool availbale to all players, then that would eliminate the need to choose sides as well. The choosing sides is what determines which force pools are accessible to whom. By getting rid of that it would also get rid of the resigning thing. Maybe that is the way to go. No more choosing sides when you start a game, no more resigning if players come and go and all pools can be accessed by all players. Any other thoughts?
Ken
Ken
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Cheesehead
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:48 pm
- Location: Appleton, Wisconsin
RE: Getting started with WiF using Vassel
Nicklas and I are using ACTS for our current Vassal PBEM WiF game and it works great. Our game is progressing nicely...we're almost through S/O '39 and everything is working fine (except for that US force pool which as already mentioned is being fixed). Anyone not playing WiF because they lack local opponents should start playing using Vassal...it really works.
John
John
You can't fight in here...this is the war room!
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Cheesehead
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:48 pm
- Location: Appleton, Wisconsin
RE: Getting started with WiF using Vassel
We just finished J/F 40 in our PBEM and the game is working splendidly. We're about to begin the battle for France...so we'll see how much things slow down with extra air phase decisions. In some ways I like this better than my face to face game that I'm playing because of the extra time I allow myself to ponder.
John
John
You can't fight in here...this is the war room!
RE: Getting started with WiF using Vassel
One impulse of german stukas and there will be nothing left for you to fight with. [:D].
Just see what they did with the french factories
Just see what they did with the french factories
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Cheesehead
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:48 pm
- Location: Appleton, Wisconsin
Entry chits with 2.00
If you were in the middle of a game from Vassal 1.82 and upgraded to 2.00 you will lose your entry chits or not be able to flip them. This is one glitch I discovered that Ken confirmed. If you haven't yet upgraded, make sure you have an accurate record of all your chits on the map and in your random pool. Then simply recreate them from the new 2.00 counter pool.
You can't fight in here...this is the war room!