Some minor bugs v2.2

Mika Väliviita · Post by **Mika Väliviita** » Mon Jan 15, 2001 4:57 pm

Looking with an editor, there appears to be a new F6F factory in slot 100, but it doesn't work in the game.

Allied artillery accumulation in the pool is in no relation to the production, pool reached 32000 in early 1943, on even. If this is planned, the artillery factories are redundant.

When using replenishment, you can accidentally (or willfully) remove the receiving "TF at sea" to the port where the replenishment originated. The cursor is moved to the port, but active TF is the one at sea.

Mika V.

Mika Väliviita · Post by **Mika Väliviita** » Mon Jan 22, 2001 3:15 pm

Wasn't there supposed to be a change where bombs were used against MTBs? All I see is attacks by AC cannon, is this same or better effect than MGs used before?
Mika

Mika Väliviita · Post by **Mika Väliviita** » Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:53 pm

Here's more: US subs sometimes use Japanese torpedoes, or even 13.2mm (!) torpedoes.
Japanese TKs still may drift to central pacific ports, and are not used in routine convoys and oil reserve runs low, and then I need to use an editor to move them back to Japan if I want even the minimal resistance the computer gives. Maybe this is related to the fact that forward ports fill with hundreds of ships, which then run away after 50 of them have been sunk in port. Repeatedly.
Computer performance in China is as pitiful as ever, it just doesn't do anything. After I get North CAC/some Indian units I can almost just walk to Shanghai and destroy the HQ there.
Could someone comment on the issues in this thread, I feel silly talking to myself.

Mika V.

moore4807 · Post by **moore4807** » Thu Feb 01, 2001 9:12 pm

Originally posted by Mika Väliviita:
Here's more: US subs sometimes use Japanese torpedoes, or even 13.2mm (!) torpedoes.
Japanese TKs still may drift to central pacific ports, and are not used in routine convoys and oil reserve runs low, and then I need to use an editor to move them back to Japan if I want even the minimal resistance the computer gives. Maybe this is related to the fact that forward ports fill with hundreds of ships, which then run away after 50 of them have been sunk in port. Repeatedly.
Computer performance in China is as pitiful as ever, it just doesn't do anything. After I get North CAC/some Indian units I can almost just walk to Shanghai and destroy the HQ there.
Could someone comment on the issues in this thread, I feel silly talking to myself.

Mika V.

LOL- your commentary on the shipping in ports are true. I set up A/C strikes against them and after a few turns they scatter(makes it great for a TF to pick em off when they do).
I also agree with your China comments but it seems to be a PP problem with supply more than anything else. Have managed to get all but one of the Chinese posts there before Allied attacks broke my forces down. (amazing how fast they rebound from India debacle...)
Anyway- good luck
Jim

chanman · Post by **chanman** » Fri Feb 09, 2001 1:26 am

I thought that carriers were supposed to arrive with a full complement in 2.2

My most recent Bogue class CVE's just showed up with no air groups. I have just started to receive Essex and Independence class carriers and they are showing up with skeleton (4 planes each) squadrons.

Any comments? Anyone? Bueller?

BTW, using the editor isn't an option for me since the last version of Excel I have is 95

Mika Väliviita · Post by **Mika Väliviita** » Fri Feb 09, 2001 3:45 pm

More bugs: Sumner DDs have 255 armor. In addition to the obvious effect, they are not likely to arrive at all since the armor is a factor in construction cost. I tried changing it to 0 as other DDs, but after loading the save, they change back to 255.
One of the routines handling Japanese TKs create 0 (zero) tanker units (which can be sunk over and over again) after the tanker pool has been depleted (sunk).
Eastern fleet controlled bases have the 'enemy presence' yellow background, even when there is no enemy.
I remember Clemson DDs converting to Rudderow APDs at some point, does this no longer happen? (I only played until Oct44.)
AC TFs don't get refuelled from replenishment TFs that don't have CVEs. Thus the historical 1st round Japanese replenishment TF following Kido Butai is useless.
When starting some of the scenarios, then going back to change the setup, instead of changing the current game it starts a new game.
Regarding the artillery production, I noticed that the factory numbers are multiplied by 5 to get the actual production. Is this intended behavior?
Aircraft do not use bombs against PC, contrary to the change notes. Thus you can use PC to wipe out kamikaze wings which use AC cannon, but are still destroyed.
When bombing ships in port, I have never seen rockets being used. While they are mostly a reduction in efficiency compared to bombs, they are better against PC.
Mika V.

Longstreet_slith · Post by **Longstreet_slith** » Fri Feb 09, 2001 7:42 pm

Is there a chance that this growing list of minor (maybe some are not so minor!) bugs will be fixed....or is version 2.2 the "final version"?

Longstreet

grumbler · Post by **grumbler** » Sat Feb 10, 2001 7:33 am

I'd rather see the talent used to accelerate WitP than continually patch PacWar, myself.

chanman · Post by **chanman** » Sat Feb 10, 2001 9:00 am

Hmmmm. Depends on the scale of the patch. Since a bunch of the issues we are finding are new introductions, it should be easier to localize than an old bug (such as the Palambang resource problem). If it is an easy fix (Note: my definition of easy here is that the programmer in question can localize and come up with a proposed solution in a day or two), I would definitely like to see a patch for PacWar. WitP is way far away while PacWar is an active product.

grumbler · Post by **grumbler** » Sun Feb 11, 2001 4:41 am

Yeah, I hear ya. My concern is for the pockets of Matrix. They need to get some cash flow at some point, or the whole shebang goes down the tubes. I would like to see them produce a product and get some sales, if only for my peace of mind!

chanman · Post by **chanman** » Mon Feb 12, 2001 1:25 am

Hi Grumbler,
I understand your comment about Matrix cash flow, though I admit I am out of my depth talking about business models. As a professional tech support geek, I do understand the bug localization and fix process pretty well. Doing it for free wouldn't be any fun.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Mon Feb 12, 2001 6:21 am

Originally posted by grumbler:
Yeah, I hear ya. My concern is for the pockets of Matrix. They need to get some cash flow at some point, or the whole shebang goes down the tubes. I would like to see them produce a product and get some sales, if only for my peace of mind!

I don't want to see Matrix spend time trying to add features to either PAC or WIR, but bugfixes are another matter, especially given the delay before we ever see WITP. Its a long way away, now that they've switched priority to UV. For all we know, the map screenshots may be only thing they have, the rest being vaporware.

PW has some new bugs, including my report about the Mohawk IV and A17 Nomad airgroups not upgrading, and they need to fix those.

Warpup · Post by **Warpup** » Mon Feb 12, 2001 8:28 am

It's nice to have some computer upgrades. But the manual aircraft upgrades still work. Having a couple of early war planes like the Mohawk IV and A-17 Nomad require manual upgrades isn't too bad. There is only the Chines A-17 squadron. Some may not want to give them more planes. I had no problem changing them to Vindacators. There are only a couple of Mohawk IV squadrons. Might not be too bad to be forced to look at the production situation before making a choice on switching those anyway.

Not sure the upgrades work in the new "Secure PBEM" mode anyway. Not far enough into my first game of that to tell. That's a very nice mode of play. Like the VCR function.

Main problem I'm having, and my opponent is having it too, is that our subs aren't finding merchant ships after the initial three weeks. Don't think I can put subs on computer control in "Secure PBEM".

Major Tom · Post by **Major Tom** » Mon Feb 12, 2001 10:47 am

Both the Mohawk IV and the A-17 Nomad were very late additions, after the auto-upgrade feature was implemented. The A-17 uses a space that we thought didn't work before so has no auto-upgrade attached to it, and the Mohawk IV used the modified old Galadiator, then changed to the Sea Hurricane (which auto upgraded from to the Seafire III). You will notice when you get seafire's in production that any Mohawk IV group will be upgraded to the seafire. Historically, Mohawks served until 1944, so, it isn't that unhistoric when the AI removes them from service.

I thought that Clemsons upgraded to Manley APD's if they upgraded at all?

Try putting the armour on the Sumner DD's at 1.

I have never seen a rocket used in any version of Pacific War.

I am not sure about the PC Cannon attack, but, I do notice that more PC's are sunk by Cannon attack than previously.

Realistically, you aren't supposed to use formations that are not attached to Nationalist China HQ or Chinese Expeditionary Army HQ in China. The units attached to these HQ's are severely hampered when it comes to activation and PP levels. Even before the updated OBC it was pretty easy to smash the Japanese forces in China using some Indian Divisions. What the current OBC does, is, removes all of the Divisions from China creating a series of 'armies' to simulate the relative static warfare experienced in China throughout the war. Previously, a very aggressive IJA player could conquer China withthin a few turns with the 20-40 Divisions stationed there, then move on to India. Historically, this couldn't happen. Changing these divisions to armies also frees up more spaces to have some extra Japanese units that actively served in the Pacific to be modeled. The divisions that transferred out from China to the Pacific are still represented, with most appearing a couple turns before the game engine transferred them (with them starting off being attached to the HQ's they transferred to).

There is no computer control for PBEM, not sure exactly why, but I think this is to even it out somehow.

Not guaranteeing anything, and if it is to happen it will not be for a long time, but, certain OBC problems might be addressed and repaired (ie. Tank Production, US Bomber Production, certain aircraft Stats, etc..). Basically anything that does not require hacking into code, just stuff that could be done by Rich's editor.

Mika Väliviita · Post by **Mika Väliviita** » Mon Feb 12, 2001 4:39 pm

Clemsons used to upgrade to some APD type, I thought of Rudderow since those appear in pool long before any group arrives.

I tried changing the Sumner armour to 1 and to those values in the original, but the exe still turned it to 255 on loading. One odd thing I noticed was that this happened when I was playing a game with the new obc41, but when I tested with the old obc_j with old values, Sumners didn't change. I'll test some more.

Rockets are and were before used against TFs, when they become available. Versus ships in port they might not have, but I don't currently have the old exe to test.

Ok, I understand no Indian units in China. What was the role of the North CAC and it's units? Also, would it possible to place the Japanese armies in China so that the Allies could not advance without driving the Japanese out, this would discourage the active approach.

The LA Calcutta replenishment express still exists, if in reduced form, and is the most non-minor bug I've mentioned in this thread. Second is the 0-TKs if they add to allied killpoints when sunk, if they don't do that, it's just a glitch. Third is the kamikaze sweeper PCs.
Mika V.

Major Tom · Post by **Major Tom** » Mon Feb 12, 2001 9:42 pm

Manley APD's appear in December 1941, so they are the first USN APD's.

Strange thing about the Sumners, did you try and put their stats back to the original?

North CAC was stationed in Northern Burma (Lashio) to attack Mandalay from another direction. For some reason they appear at Chunking! What should happen is they should be moved to Kushing/Lashio for actions against the Japanese army in Burma.

As far as I know the Japanese armies are positioned in China where the Allies cannot advance on land without encountering one. You cannot cut off North Burma from China though with a IJA Army.

I think that if the LA/Calcutta bug was removed all together than India/Ceylon/Burma will not get any supply at all. I think that only LA is a supply port, and India gets its supply from LA. It is only a theory that I am running on, as, I noticed that when the PBEM bug did not have an Allied convoy phase that absolutely no supply reached India, even though supply appeared on the US West Coast.

Which Tanker Class does this? Is it just one? Possibly meddling with the OBC will just fix that?

Possibly for a PBEM rule, MTB's should not be used when you know that there are Kamikaze's in the area (ie. used blatantly as Kamizake busters). I am not sure wether or not the Matrix team has the time to put in another patch. They are heavily working on UV. Personally, I never thought that MTB's were adequately modeled, since for one, there were hundreds of them on both sides, where only a few are modeled. They didn't play an extremely important role, other than harassing light skinned merchants and other patrol vessels. Possibly you might want to eliminate them from the game completely?

daniel123 · Post by **daniel123** » Mon Feb 12, 2001 10:24 pm

i am playing as the japanese and have conquered all of asia. however both Dacaa and Rangoon show a isolated base.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Tue Feb 13, 2001 10:04 am

Originally posted by Warpup:
It's nice to have some computer upgrades. But the manual aircraft upgrades still work. Having a couple of early war planes like the Mohawk IV and A-17 Nomad require manual upgrades isn't too bad.

No its not bad if its two humans playing one another, but what about the AI? How bizarre is it going to look if the AI as the Allied player keeps a Mohawk IV air group in India with zero planes ready or damaged and less than 10 in the pool from mid '42 till '44? Same with the A17, the AI doesn't know how to "correct" this problem.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Tue Feb 13, 2001 10:15 am

Originally posted by Major Tom:
Both the Mohawk IV and the A-17 Nomad were very late additions, after the auto-upgrade feature was implemented. The A-17 uses a space that we thought didn't work before so has no auto-upgrade attached to it, and the Mohawk IV used the modified old Galadiator, then changed to the Sea Hurricane (which auto upgraded from to the Seafire III). You will notice when you get seafire's in production that any Mohawk IV group will be upgraded to the seafire. Historically, Mohawks served until 1944, so, it isn't that unhistoric when the AI removes them from service.

So the Mohawk IV group, starved of planes since the Mohawk isn't produced, must sit around in India for 2 years with never more than 10 planes in it? And the A17 group *never* upgrades?

I have never seen a rocket used in any version of Pacific War.

They were there. Late war USN, very good at sinking smallish ships because of their accuracy. They were in the original game.

Major Tom · Post by **Major Tom** » Wed Feb 14, 2001 10:09 am

Nothing really can be done, and it is not critical anyway.