Detailed combat

[Gem35]

Hello everyone, In some of my detailed battles ( which i am addicted to now by the way ) I have a few questions.

1.) At times I notice either my infantry attacking and both his target and adjacent enemy unit both take damage or enemy infantry attacks me and 2 of my units take damage. I see 2 sets of casualty numbers 'floating up'. Is this true or is it perhaps just battle lag?

2.) I enjoy using skirmishers, especialy when I have Militia in my armies, although it's a rare occurance. I have yet to train some light infantry. Are they worth it seeing that regualr infantry are cheaper and seem to perform well for me when deployed as skirmishers. ANy advice from you folks is appreciated on these subjects. [:)]

[Hard Sarge]

if I follow your question right, I have seen double numbers coming up from my troops when fired on

most times it does look like overlapping fire, that hits two units that are close together

there is also, the case where as the programs moves around, the numbers from the last attack are still floating up

HARD_Sarge

[Ralegh]

You will notice that the "double hit" usually happens when you fire on an enemy unit that has just been charged - and its the charger who is also taking some damage. I have not seen 2 friendlies taking damage from the same enemy attack - watch for that one again, and see if you can identify the circumstances.

Light infantry go into skirmish for 2 movement points, at 100% success - that is pretty cool. If you are disciplined enough to get your guys into skirmish without the enemy hitting the ones who disorder, then good on you. I sure am not! so I love my light infantry. Love em enough to spend 60 (is it 60? - lots anyway) of textiles to build 'em? Usually not - corps come first for me. Although I do like to have at least one light inf in each army - they make a wonderful target for the enemy to shoot at.

[Reg Pither]

I agree with Hard Sarge's last comment about the 'two sets of numbers' situation. I'm 99% certain that it's just a program glitch that brings up the last casualty figure as well as the present one, and not that two units are taking damage from the same attack. I'd be very interested to know if I'm wrong though! [:)]

But then, as the messages move so fast and there's no way of pausing or rewinding them, there's no easy (any?) way to check.

[Gem35]

Ah, thanks for the comments folks. As far as using my infantry as skirmishers, I have been lucky to get them into formation, but also unlucky at times getting them or other units to reform from being disordered ( especialy hurtful when the given percentage is 70 and up and they still fail [:@])

[Squamry]

Ok, so what do people see the use of skirmisher? personally I never use them. I stick to lines and columns.

[eMonticello]

ORIGINAL: Squamry

Ok, so what do people see the use of skirmisher? personally I never use them. I stick to lines and columns.

In real life, light infantry were used to a) harrass the enemy's main body with the intent to disrupt troops and force artillery from the field, and b) prevent the enemy's light infantry from disrupting their own troops and artillery. They are the first on the battlefield and the last to leave.

For more information, I suggest Rory Muir's Tactics and the Experience of Battle in the Age of Napoleon.

Since I didn't have the time to play a full detailed battle, I don't know if they perform as expected.

[Squamry]

ORIGINAL: eMonticello

Since I didn't have the time to play a full detailed battle, I don't know if they perform as expected.

Their historical use I have no problems about. I just don't particularly see their use much in a situation where a unit represents a division. For myslef I want to maximise firepower and manouvre, so I use columns and lines.

[Reg Pither]

ORIGINAL: Squamry

ORIGINAL: eMonticello

Since I didn't have the time to play a full detailed battle, I don't know if they perform as expected.

Their historical use I have no problems about. I just don't particularly see their use much in a situation where a unit represents a division. For myslef I want to maximise firepower and manouvre, so I use columns and lines.

Yes, I am also struggling to work out what the benefits of skirmishers are in this game. [&:]

[ian77]

I thought they reduced casualties from enemy fire?[&:]

[MarcelJV]

Set the delay bar all the way to the right and the AI turns go much slower and you should see what you are looking for. Delay bar should be mostly Green.

[MarcelJV]

Read the manual, when you have skirmishers deployed you do increased moral damage to your opponent.

Here are some benefits and penalties in detailed combat. All of this is in the manual.

Formation changes: Skirmishers deployed outside of castles make the check 20% more difficult.

Movement costs:
Units with Skirmishers deployed increase cost by 1, unless light infantry or Jager.

Combat:
Skirmishers defending in castles do -50% damage.
Flanking is only half effective against units with deployed skirmishers outside of fortifications.
Units with skirmishers deployed suffer only 66% normal morale loss.

Unit Upgrades: Skirmisher Training.
Infantry in Line formation take -20% damage from non-flanking attacks.

Seems to me they help a fair bit. You take a movement penalty and a formation change penalty, but gain in combat defense quite a bit. I really like the 50% less casualties from flanking fire. Makes me rethink buying light infantry.

[Reg Pither]

Are there no charge or fire restrictions or penalties for skirmishers?

[MarcelJV]

My list is directly from the manual, so no. Other than firing from a castle (-50%).

[Reg Pither]

I must be thinking of some other game, then! Must get some sleep some time...[;)]

[ericbabe]

Stepping through my source code, the effects of being in skirmish formation are:

* +1 move point cost to change facing
* Light infantry/jager do +20% of base damage when attacking
* Do -50% damage when defending, except when in a fortress
* Skirmishing units are a bit more vulnerable to being flanked
* Skirmishing units receive only half the combat penalty for attacking out of rough terrain
* Skirmishers outside of a fortress take only 66% the normal morale loss
* Skirmishers are less likely to become disordered during a fire combat (as if their morale were +2.0 higher than it actually is)
* 20% harder to change formation while skirmishers are deployed
* Cost to move is +1 for non light-infantry/jager while skirmishing

The big advantages of skirmishers, in summary, is their resistance to morale loss, their resistance to spontaneous-disorder during fire combat, and their increased ability to fire out of rough terrain.

[MarcelJV]

Ok, this does not match what is in the manual as I posted above.
* Skirmishing units are a bit more vulnerable to being flanked
So it seems that skirmisher deployed units take more damage from a flank attack, and in the manual it states the opposite?

* Do -50% damage when defending, except when in a fortress
So as the defender you shoot back at -50%, but if you fire from the fortification, on your turn, you do not take the -50%? The manual says the opposite.

* Skirmishing units receive only half the combat penalty for attacking out of rough terrain
Not in the manual at all.

* Skirmishers are less likely to become disordered during a fire combat (as if their morale were +2.0 higher than it actually is)
Also Not in the manual.

Eric just looking for clarification so that I understand better.
Below is the ful post by Eric.

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

Stepping through my source code, the effects of being in skirmish formation are:

* +1 move point cost to change facing
* Light infantry/jager do +20% of base damage when attacking
* Do -50% damage when defending, except when in a fortress
* Skirmishing units are a bit more vulnerable to being flanked
* Skirmishing units receive only half the combat penalty for attacking out of rough terrain
* Skirmishers outside of a fortress take only 66% the normal morale loss
* Skirmishers are less likely to become disordered during a fire combat (as if their morale were +2.0 higher than it actually is)
* 20% harder to change formation while skirmishers are deployed
* Cost to move is +1 for non light-infantry/jager while skirmishing

The big advantages of skirmishers, in summary, is their resistance to morale loss, their resistance to spontaneous-disorder during fire combat, and their increased ability to fire out of rough terrain.

[ian77]

[:-] No I will not believe that the manual could be wrong... No! No! No! Not again....[8|]

So having read what skirmishers can really do, they could be useful, especially for low morale infantry... better go try some again........

Ian

Edit - I did of course mean infantry who were cowards (low morale) and not troops prone to rape and plunder (immoral)[8|]

[carburo]

Now I'm confused.

I thought skirmishers were useful when defending: took fewer casualties from enemy fire and were less prone to disorder.

What I haven’t found in the manual is the difference between regular infantry and light infantry in fire and charge power. Or the difference between regulars skirmishing and lights skirmishing.

[MarcelJV]

Well you could check the manual and see the difference between infantry and light infantry, but here is a synopsis. Remember I did this above and most of it was wrong as it came from the manual.

Light Infantry:
--Quick Combat:
*-1 to attack compared to regular infantry
*+2 defense bonus compared to regular Infantry

--Detailed Combat:
*Reduced cost to deploy skirmishers (only 2 movement points), and under normal circumstances may do so without the need to make a organizational check. (100% chance)
*Do more damage when skirmishers are deployed than regular infantry.
*have reduced movement costs compared to regular infantry when skirmishers as deployed. (I take this to mean the +1 movement penalty is not applied.)
*Have a chance to avoid being charged by enemy infantry
*Fire out of forests, villages, and orchards without an attack penalty.
*Scout one hex farther, and require only half as many movement points to change formation, than regular infantry.

For comparison here is a Rifle Infantry bonuses.

Quick Combat:
*+2 attack bonus compared to regular infantry

Detailed Combat:
*receive much reduced range penalties.
*can attack two hexes farther than regular infantry.
*at close range do 20% more damage than regular infantry.

ORIGINAL: carburo

Now I'm confused.

I thought skirmishers were useful when defending: took fewer casualties from enemy fire and were less prone to disorder.

What I haven’t found in the manual is the difference between regular infantry and light infantry in fire and charge power. Or the difference between regulars skirmishing and lights skirmishing.