Early War Marine Tactics Lesson Wanted!

[DuckofTindalos]

That's right, Gunny! I'm talking to you!

Being a tanker through and through, my main source of experience for all-infantry battles was the Screaming Eagles Mega Campaign. I enjoyed that immensely, and since I've often heard KG Erwin (aka Gunny) gush about the US Marines and the long campaign, I thought I'd check it out.

But, being an old wardog, I've learned that it's smart to try to learn from people who might know a bit more about certain specialised aspects than me.

So, starting out in 12/41 with the Corps, what sort of force ratios would be smart to pick, i.e. what relationship should there ideally be between the main force component (the riflemen), and support component (engineers, mortars, tanks, etc.)?

[KG Erwin]

Ok, Terminus -- my first recommendation is that you start the campaign in August 1942 (with the Guadalcanal battles, "Tenaru" & "Bloody Ridge"), rather than December 1941.

The size of the core force is up to you, but in 8.4, the USMC has 4350 purchase points (true troop cost ON, rarity OFF), which allows buying a reinforced battalion landing team.

Generally speaking, I'd recommend buying a complete light tank company and three rifle companies. To each rifle company, attach a 60mm mortar platoon and three MG platoons.

To this base, I add a parachute platoon and three or four Raider platoons, essentially a fourth infantry company, and three Engineer sections or platoons.

For recon, add three 12-man Infantry Recon elements.

For additional fire support, add two GMC 75mm SPs, four 37mm ATGs, four 81mm mortars, and maybe even two 50 cal MGs. The ATGs are useful against Japanese infantry, as you will rarely encounter any enemy AFVs.

All told, you could have up to 155 units and some 55 different formations.

Given the close nature of the terrain in the first six or seven battles, usually in rain/storm conditions, each line rifle company is essentially a self-contained combat element.

Advances will be slow and deliberate, and try to avoid gaps in the line-- even with all of this infantry, maintaining any sort of reserve is difficult to do, depending on the width of the map.

For off-board support, I usually buy not less that two full 105mm artillery battalions. If you want any of the 75mm pack-howitzers, buy the onboard variety. The offboard 75s are too short-ranged, and are often out of contact. You will rarely get the chance to buy any air support, at least until mid-1943. Also, make sure you buy several ammo carriers to keep your mortars/ATGs in action.

[Wild Bill]

Tanks were not that readily available to the Marines until sometime in 1943. Their first tank used in combat was the M2A1, part of the defending/attacking force at Guadalcanal.

Of course by the invasion of Saipan, tanks were much more plentiful for the Marines, along with armored protection from the genre of LVTs.

I think Gunny has sized it up well. The campaign at Guadalcanal was the first real Marine offensive of the war. Of course they did some defending at Wake and Guam, but that was largely it until Guadalcanal.

WB

[DuckofTindalos]

After I posted here, I experimented some more, and found that I probably WILL start on the Rock, though most likely with a scaled down version of the OOB that Gunny suggested. Buying THAT would be counterproductive to my interest in keeping the battles SMALL...[X(]

[VikingNo2]

When you can get some M4 flame tanks, worth there weight in gold. The Japs will keep attacking and will defend to the last man be prepared for that, be methodical

[DuckofTindalos]

I know, believe me, I know... Not unlike Wild Bill's Korea scenarios, they'll just keep fighting, until you put them all down.

[Poopyhead]

Well, if you are a "tanker through and through", then try a mechanized company. I have had success in my Marine Steel experiment. Take a Marine company and tweak it so you get a platoon of M2A4's, a platoon of Marines (augmented with engineers) in halftracks, several scout patrols and some mortars on trucks or HT's. The jungle terrain is not so dense everywhere as to deny your armor mobility. If you accept the challenge of "Guderian in the Ardennes", then it works. I was even able to blitz a company past the Japanese flank and destroy their artillery and HQ in classic style. Don't play the Japanese jungle game, make them play your game. [:D]

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: Poopyhead

Well, if you are a "tanker through and through", then try a mechanized company. I have had success in my Marine Steel experiment. Take a Marine company and tweak it so you get a platoon of M2A4's, a platoon of Marines (augmented with engineers) in halftracks, several scout patrols and some mortars on trucks or HT's. The jungle terrain is not so dense everywhere as to deny your armor mobility. If you accept the challenge of "Guderian in the Ardennes", then it works. I was even able to blitz a company past the Japanese flank and destroy their artillery and HQ in classic style. Don't play the Japanese jungle game, make them play your game. [:D]

Poopyhead has a perfectly valid point, if you want to throw "historicity" out the window. One of the game's strongest points is its ability to exercise the "what-if" factor, which is one of the big drawing cards of wargames in the first place. It all depends on what you want to get from the game.

[DuckofTindalos]

I've started a campaign now in 8/42. My first action is an Advance at Tenaru (lucky me). Hate fighting the Japs: until you get to within buckle-grabbing range, all you see are muzzle-flashes!

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I've started a campaign now in 8/42. My first action is an Advance at Tenaru (lucky me). Hate fighting the Japs: until you get to within buckle-grabbing range, all you see are muzzle-flashes!

What did you buy as your core force?

You'll find that Japanese squads greatly outnumber yours--THIS is why you want to support your Marine platoons with plenty of MGs, mortars and light tanks! The Americans win through smothering application of firepower -- bullets & shells save American lives-- that's our way of war. Get those mortars in action, man , if you have them. Target artillery right down on their butts.

Get the rifle units next to them when they're suppressed, and then the Marines can start killing them.

However, beware the Banzai charge, Terminus. Good luck and Semper Fi!

[DuckofTindalos]

Bought a reinforced rifle company (D+), two Stuart platoons, a 75mm GMC platoon, an 81mm mortar platoon, a 75mm pack howitzer platoon and a forward observer.

I'm thinking of replacing the pack howitzers with more 81mm mortars.

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Bought a reinforced rifle company (D+), two Stuart platoons, a 75mm GMC platoon, an 81mm mortar platoon, a 75mm pack howitzer platoon and a forward observer.

I'm thinking of replacing the pack howitzers with more 81mm mortars.

That's a fine combination you have there. Gonna give them a name, like Charlie 5 or Easy 8?

[Poopyhead]

I hope that you reinforced your company of Marines with a lot of scout patrols. The Pacific Theater will get you an Eagle Badge in "scouting".[:D] You're right about the howitzers too. Have your FO target your 81 mm mortars next to the japanese units and then adjust onto them with a unit that has LOS. Mortars at less than 6 hexes can shred an infantry platoon.

[DuckofTindalos]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

That's a fine combination you have there. Gonna give them a name, like Charlie 5 or Easy 8?

I'm going to wait and see if they survive the first battle. It's a difficult one. I really wish I could simulate cannister rounds for the Stuarts; the mortars are doing very well, though. They're pinning the Japs, so they don't reaction fire on my Marines when they come close. Damn 50 meter visibility.

Plus, these particular Japanese have brought some 150mm mortars to the party. Those things HURT!

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Plus, these particular Japanese have brought some 150mm mortars to the party. Those things HURT!

The Marines on Guadalcanal gave the 150s the nickname "Pistol Pete".

[DuckofTindalos]

Another fun aspect is that the mortars set fire to the jungle, which causes suppression in both sides.

[Twotribes]

I bought the reinforced companies and couldnt spend the points from setting to xxx. Ran out of unit slots and still had almost a 1000 points. With 3 companies and a weapons company plus a tank company ( which meets your criteria of what to buy) I had 1400 plus points left and 42 slots left. And that was with the Marines set to 130 percent ( which I believe makes them cost more? )

Doesnt matter the jungle fighting where you can only move one hex at a time is too damn boring for me.

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

I bought the reinforced companies and couldnt spend the points from setting to xxx. Ran out of unit slots and still had almost a 1000 points. With 3 companies and a weapons company plus a tank company ( which meets your criteria of what to buy) I had 1400 plus points left and 42 slots left. And that was with the Marines set to 130 percent ( which I believe makes them cost more? )

Doesnt matter the jungle fighting where you can only move one hex at a time is too damn boring for me.

I understand your point, Twotribes. "Getting into" the Pacific Theater requires a different mindset for those accustomed to the wide-open plains/deserts and extensive road networks found in Europe or North Africa. However, the jungles of 1942-43 will give way to the more open terrain found in the island assaults of 1944-45.

The leftover purchase points are a reflection of the lowered experience levels in 8.4. Using true troop cost, your units are (usually) cheaper to buy than in 8.3. This makes it easy to "max-out" the units/formations limits.

[RayM]

While I'm sure it's well-known in the Pacific community, keeping your Marines with your armor and your armor with Marines at all times is something that any player of Pacific scenarios soon learns to stick to....no matter tempting it is to send your tanks to the VH or on sweeping arcs using the "hey--diddle--diddle--up--the--middle" method of attack. Combined arms is the answer...tanks support Marines, Marines protect tanks. Repeat ten times.......

Ray

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: RayM

While I'm sure it's well-known in the Pacific community, keeping your Marines with your armor and your armor with Marines at all times is something that any player of Pacific scenarios soon learns to stick to....no matter tempting it is to send your tanks to the VH or on sweeping arcs using the "hey--diddle--diddle--up--the--middle" method of attack. Combined arms is the answer...tanks support Marines, Marines protect tanks. Repeat ten times.......

Ray

Semper Fi, Ray. You know how it works. It's good to hear from you. [;)]