Bombing Midway from French Frigate

[mc3744]

Some time ago there was the issue on whether it'd be possible to bomb a Japanese Midway from French Frigate.

I recently built up FF to airfield size (4) and I bombed Midway with (64) LB-30 and (64) B-17. I had high operational losses and poor results, but I also had insufficient air support at the base. So maybe with increased air support in FF the op losses would/will be lower.

[cyberwop36]

B-17's need a level 5 AF to carry a full load and have low op losses. There is a bomb load / AF formula. Somebody here knows it

[Terminus]

The formula is AF size 4 + (bomb load/6500).

[Ron Saueracker]

Sad that the game allows this many aircraft on something basically the size of an escort carrier. That picture posted in another thread showing FFS said it all. It was basically an emergency strip also used for air transfer missions.

[Terminus]

Yeah... I have a high tolerance for what others might call "gamey", but plunking down bombers there would cross that line in my book.

[String]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Sad that the game allows this many aircraft on something basically the size of an escort carrier. That picture posted in another thread showing FFS said it all. It was basically an emergency strip also used for air transfer missions.

Oh god.. Ron, can you ever post anything positive? I've just taken a look at 10 of your last posts, and only 1 or perhaps 2 (depends on how you look at it) was neutral, the rest were negative.

[Terminus]

Uh oh... INCOMING!!!

[tsimmonds]

ORIGINAL: String

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Sad that the game allows this many aircraft on something basically the size of an escort carrier. That picture posted in another thread showing FFS said it all. It was basically an emergency strip also used for air transfer missions.

Oh god.. Ron, can you ever post anything positive? I've just taken a look at 10 of your last posts, and only 1 or perhaps 2 (depends on how you look at it) was neutral, the rest were negative.

Why should he go out of his way to make a feel-good post? There are plenty of guys around here to fill that role. He is absolutely right; there is no way a/c should be able to operate from this hex in any meaningful way other than to patrol and to transfer someplace else. Ron has a unique POV and we should welcome his input. If it p1sses you off, you might just look the other way (as I have done occasionally; I mean even when you are right, enough can sometimes be enough!).[;)]

[bradfordkay]

Unfotunately, the game system has no way to model extremely tiny airstrip locations, when compared to undesirable territory in full land hex. Within the sixty miles of mountainous territory, you can usually come up with airstrips capable of holding 150 aircraft total. But on a tiny rock like French Frigate Shoals, it is an impossiblity. I never understood why FFS has a rating of 0 (1). It most certainly be a 0 (0).

[Oznoyng]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Sad that the game allows this many aircraft on something basically the size of an escort carrier. That picture posted in another thread showing FFS said it all. It was basically an emergency strip also used for air transfer missions.

Check your facts. The information I dedged up ( I goodled it) showed the airstrip to be 3300 x 400 feet. Show me an escort carrier that is that size... While it would be an extraordinarily packed airfield, you might actually be able to fit 50 or so B-17's there. I seriously doubt you could operate 200 from it. On the other hand, I am not sure whether it was expanded as far as it could have been.

[mogami]

Hi, The FFS Naval air station remained open till the 1960's.
(People keep forgetting that in war it is doing what is considered impossible that wins)

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Unfotunately, the game system has no way to model extremely tiny airstrip locations, when compared to undesirable territory in full land hex. Within the sixty miles of mountainous territory, you can usually come up with airstrips capable of holding 150 aircraft total. But on a tiny rock like French Frigate Shoals, it is an impossiblity. I never understood why FFS has a rating of 0 (1). It most certainly be a 0 (0).

Be more correct to make it a 0 (-2). Then the largest it could ever become would be a "1"---which may
still overstate it's actual abilities.

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, The FFS Naval air station remained open till the 1960's.
(People keep forgetting that in war it is doing what is considered impossible that wins)

Park two dozen bombers on it and there is no room to take off or land. And that's assuming the second dozen didn't crash into the earlier 12 trying to land in the first place.

[Sharkosaurus rex]

But the USA didn't need to develop the base any further than shown in the photo. But if Midway was lost in June 1942, more work would/could have been under taken to improve the runway and facilities further. Maybe not enough to sustain months of operations- but well enough to launch a week of pre-invasion attacks for a re-occupation of Midway.

[AmiralLaurent]

ORIGINAL: Sharkosaurus rex

But the USA didn't need to develop the base any further than shown in the photo. But if Midway was lost in June 1942, more work would/could have been under taken to improve the runway and facilities further. Maybe not enough to sustain months of operations- but well enough to launch a week of pre-invasion attacks for a re-occupation of Midway.

To expand the facilities you will have to expand the island, that is find some earth and rock somewhere and bring it there. And given the nature of atolls, that rise sharply from deep ocean, it will require a huge engineering effort.
Also I suppose anybody basing 200 heavy bombers there will also have patrol and CAP aircraft, and thousands of men to take care of them and a division or at least a RCT to protect them. Where will they stay ?

In WITP II the size of island should definetly be taken in account. And the size of AF/port should have three numbers: actual size / normal size / maximum size, so you can't build anything up to 3 points above the normal size (especially when it's zero).

[Terminus]

Damn... Just looking at that picture; you'd hate to be stationed there and have a problem with somnabulism. Out the door, turn right, three steps and you're in the Pacific![8|]

[Bobthehatchit]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, The FFS Naval air station remained open till the 1960's.
(People keep forgetting that in war it is doing what is considered impossible that wins)

Park two dozen bombers on it and there is no room to take off or land. And that's assuming the second dozen didn't crash into the earlier 12 trying to land in the first place.

Dam i didn't realise it was that small! Only got a base force AA unit and some PBY's there in my game, although there's a RCT on the way think i'll send them else where otherwise it'll be standing room only!

[Terminus]

That's why they're called "shoals"...[;)]

[Bobthehatchit]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

That's why they're called "shoals"...[;)]

If the sea gets up a bit it'll wash right over!

That could reck your whole day[:D]

[Burkowski]

Yah, based on Terminus' comment above re: "gaminess," for PBEMers, looks like this issue is another candidate for a house rule.... e.g. make a list of similar oceanic postage stamps and place our own restrictions... workarounds are part of the WITP currency...

Burkowski