Victory Points

xor · Post by **xor** » Wed Jul 04, 2001 7:25 pm

Guess I'm kind of late, but I just finished my first game of the 41 campaign. I think I've barely managed to win it, but I don't know why exactly.

Late in '45, I was significantly ahead in points but far from the 2:1 winning ratio. So I had pretty much already accepted a draw, and only decided to make a final attempt for the Japanese heartland because SigInt claimed there wasn't much of a defense in Takamatsu. And indeed, I conquered it almost without resistance, must have been one of my easiest attacks.

Now from reading the manual, I would have expected a significant change as far as the control points are concerned. But what surprised me was that after capturing Takamatsu, the Japanese kill points dropped by almost 50%, from some 120k to some 60k. That being the case, Japan surrendered after one more turn, and just in time, I migth add (11/19/45).

Now I'd like to think I deserved to win this, because I control the battlefield, and Japan doesn't seem to have any more oil left but I wouldn't want to win because of a bug. So someone please tell me how this works.

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I'm glad I finally got into the game, because the scope and depth are quite unique. But on the other hand, is this interface a nightmare or what? So much clicking and micro-management involved, my hands seriously started hurting sometimes. (And you guys tell me I shouldn't even use the "get transport" function? I would have died if I hadn't.)
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If anyone's up for a leisurely, non-competitive PBEM (as you can see, I'm quite a newbie), let me know.

Warpup · Post by **Warpup** » Wed Jul 04, 2001 9:06 pm

Sounds like you and Cyberwop (see his recent threads) should get together for a "secure pbem" game, since both of you are new to the game, but both seem to have a handle on the mechanics. You could keep a game against the AI going so that you can discover the arrival of units in the 2.2 version ahead of your pbem game. It's really scary having the much more intelligent and unpredictable human on the other side.

1089 · Post by **1089** » Thu Jul 05, 2001 9:54 am

Originally posted by xor:

If anyone's up for a leisurely, non-competitive PBEM (as you can see, I'm quite a newbie), let me know.

I am looking for an opponent, and I haven't played a human yet myself. I would like to start in Campaign '42 if I play the Japanese, so I don't have to organize so many invasions in the first 6 months. No historic move. If you want to play let me know.

kp

Rich Dionne · Post by **Rich Dionne** » Thu Jul 05, 2001 9:49 pm

Originally posted by xor:
Late in '45, I was significantly ahead in points but far from the 2:1 winning ratio. So I had pretty much already accepted a draw, and only decided to make a final attempt for the Japanese heartland because SigInt claimed there wasn't much of a defense in Takamatsu. And indeed, I conquered it almost without resistance, must have been one of my easiest attacks.

Now from reading the manual, I would have expected a significant change as far as the control points are concerned. But what surprised me was that after capturing Takamatsu, the Japanese kill points dropped by almost 50%, from some 120k to some 60k. That being the case, Japan surrendered after one more turn, and just in time, I migth add (11/19/45).

Now I'd like to think I deserved to win this, because I control the battlefield, and Japan doesn't seem to have any more oil left but I wouldn't want to win because of a bug. So someone please tell me how this works.

XOR

In 1945, Japanese kill points are multiplied by 2 "if the Japanese production points stay above 500". When you took Takamatsu, you must have put the Japanese production level below 500, thereby removing the x2 multiplier for kills, giving you a 2:1 score ratio and the victory.

Regards,

Rich Dionne

xor · Post by **xor** » Thu Jul 05, 2001 10:13 pm

Originally posted by Rich Dionne:

In 1945, Japanese kill points are multiplied by 2 "if the Japanese production points stay above 500". When you took Takamatsu, you must have put the Japanese production level below 500, thereby removing the x2 multiplier for kills, giving you a 2:1 score ratio and the victory.

Regards,

Rich Dionne

Thanks. This is exactly what happened.
Does the manual mention this point at all?

And can one even win the '41 campaign for the allies without crippling Japanese production this way? Looks like that Jap kill x2 modifier in '45 is pretty steep, since kill points seem to be the biggest fraction of the total score.

[ July 05, 2001: Message edited by: xor ]

xor · Post by **xor** » Fri Jul 06, 2001 1:01 am

Originally posted by Keith Price:

I am looking for an opponent, and I haven't played a human yet myself. I would like to start in Campaign '42 if I play the Japanese, so I don't have to organize so many invasions in the first 6 months. No historic move. If you want to play let me know.

kp

Check your "private messages."

Ranger-75 · Post by **Ranger-75** » Sun Jul 08, 2001 5:04 am

Warpup's statement: "It's really scary having the much more intelligent and unpredictable human on the other side." is true,

But,,, it's equally scary when the AI sends CV raider task forces to Pearl Harbor and takes Christmas Island on the 3rd week of December!!

I got the last laugh though: The many AZOCs around Hawaii allowed Halsey in an Air TF & Spruance in a Surface TF to each manage a "surprise attack" Halsey sunk the Akagi, Kaga, Shokaku & Zuikaku. Spruance went in and made a mess of the remaining ships in the enemy TFs. I also pasted 3 CVLs and 1 CVE, total 4 CV, 3 CVL, 1 CVE in about 3 turns. I think it was the combination of surprise and no Jap radar than made this possible (allowed a FULL strike of some 180 planes), otherwise, the 4 CVs would likely have trashed my TFs.

Christmans Is was recaptured in 1 turn (I had two div already on ships going to the south and diverted them).

This took the sting out of losing Rangoon and Khota Baru on that same turn.

Warpup · Post by **Warpup** » Sun Jul 08, 2001 6:55 am

Warning! Agressive Japanese AI! Yes, it does happen sometime. A few months ago there was a thread with a discussion of how often the Japanese AI will choose a very aggressive path. I forgot what the percentage chances were for the Japanese AI to make early Banzai charges at the Hawaian Islands.

Because this leads to the type of destruction of the IJN that you described most of the time, the more dangerous is when the more rare chance happens of a full blown Japanese offensive on Ceylon, which, from what I've read (haven't seen it myself), is a sure conquest for the Japs.

Most of the time I think the Japanese AI for the 1941 campaign isn't so aggressive. It will often piddle around and even fail to take all of the target perimeter in SE Asia. I think it may be better to play the 1942 campaign against the AI Japanese, because you won't be able to save lots of units and good leaders as the allies, and also because the Japanese will start with their initial target perimeter in hand, and because the IJN CVs won't be on the bottom already as you experienced.

The 1941 campaign against a human is great. You are guaranteed a very aggressive IJN & IJA, but without suicidal risks like the attack on Hawaii. Well, some human players will go after Hawaii in an early mass attack, but maybe they will try to figure out where Halsey and the USN CVs are first.

Major Tom · Post by **Major Tom** » Sun Jul 08, 2001 7:30 pm

Unfortunately we are all aware of the Japanese suicide rush, but that first time that they did the attack, you were sweating, eh?

ANY game against a human opponent will be better, especially these 'early' games with their simple AI. Even still, the AI is pretty good, for 1990.

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:01 pm

The canny human as Japan learns it is not nessacary to risk his carriers in the central pacific. In the first weeks even if the allied CV's react they only seem able to sink carriers. Against BB's and CA's they are shot down in swarms with the transports landing the divisions on Johnson/Midway without trouble. In the first few weeks Pearls land base air is nil. As stated above Ceylon is impossible to defend. A few heavy surface units for bombardment is all that is needed freeing 3/4 of the IJN for service against the Central or Southern Pacific (Moresby is dead meat if Japan cares to go there in the opening weeks) One nightmare PBEM game I played my US CV's got their suprise first strike on the IJN CV's. the air groups were slaughtered without scoring a hit and the IJN counter strike sank all 3 of my carriers. Result good bye Pearl a few weeks later

xor · Post by **xor** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 11:36 pm

Originally posted by Mogami:
One nightmare PBEM game I played my US CV's got their suprise first strike on the IJN CV's. the air groups were slaughtered without scoring a hit and the IJN counter strike sank all 3 of my carriers. Result good bye Pearl a few weeks later

Ah, you have no idea how good it feels to read this. (Hi Keith

) I've also learned that Halsey's aggressiveness can really add to the desaster early on.