Are you guys sure about allied convoys?

cyberwop · Post by **cyberwop** » Thu Jul 26, 2001 6:38 am

People suggest packing L.A. with MCS units. The way I read the rules unused MCS units from all over are used. To simulate US logistic superiority every ship used is filled with fuel and supply at no cost to the base it departs from. There is no advantage to using LA for MCS. Escorts must be left there to make sure your not using them in TF's.
I know I'm a rookie in my 1st game, but all my bases have plenty of supply. I seem to get the best results leaving 10 ship MCS units in ports just behind the forward areas. The key is having air superiority to allow the system to function. The only cargo TF's I use are for newly captured bases and to move air and LCU's.
It's sept. 43 I have no MCS units in LA. all my old clemson DD's and most of the new DE units. Each cycle I have about 280 to 320 ships being used. The only MCS I use on the west coast are to move new air groups.
If you position your HQ's properly and HQ targets, win the air war, supply takes care of itself.
Two other things to remember when reading the convoy reports. The Allied merchant men have a much larger capacity than their jap counter parts. So you need less ships and your not hauling stuff back home.

ps not 1 tanker has been used the entire war and i have plenty of fuel [mixed supply].

pps i'll mail my save if someone cares to see.

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:53 am

That would account for the AI's MCS conventions (placing large numbers of MCS in forward areas) It also makes sense to have MCS at every base (for a pipeline effect to work)

madflava13 · Post by **madflava13** » Thu Jul 26, 2001 6:57 pm

I'm still not getting the number of escorts I would expect as the Allies. I've tried putting a ton of DDs in LA/Calcutta, I've tried different classes, etc... I just started a new game against the Jap AI to try some new strategies, and I am only getting 1 or 2 DDs per turn as escorts when I have 10-15 in LA/Calcutta... Not that its a huge deal, as I blanket my PBYs/SBDs over the islands and convoy routes, but its a little annoying to see those tin cans go unused.. Any thoughts or suggestions?

cyberwop · Post by **cyberwop** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 1:07 am

flava, I noticed in my game the dd's in india don't help at all. The totals on the convoy report always match my LA totals. I tried all the ports over there.

madflava13 · Post by **madflava13** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 1:15 am

Cyberwop, thanks for the info... I'll try putting my escorts all in LA tonight, as soon as I can get out of work.. I'll let you know if I come up with anything with regards to the system. Thanks again.

Warpup · Post by **Warpup** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 5:37 am

I just finished a long PBEM game which went to August '44. My DDs in Calcutta (India now) were used. I checked the convoy phase several times throughout the game and noticed that the number of DD was greater than the number of DD in LA, and seemed to reflect part of the small number of DD I had in India. This was not always happening, however. My opponent was moving his subs from time to time and would leave no subs in the Bay of Bengal for long periods. Maybe the convoy program reacts to subs spotted when picking whether or not escorts are assigned to routine convoys... :rolleyes:

madflava13 · Post by **madflava13** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 5:30 pm

Cyberwop-
That seems likely to me as well.. I simmed a bunch of turns in my Jap AI game, and it seemed like the number of escorts started to pick up once I was sighting more enemy subs around the convoy routes.

madflava13 · Post by **madflava13** » Fri Jul 27, 2001 5:37 pm

Sorry guys, I need to read more closely... Warpup, I was responding to your comment. Sorry for any confusion... :rolleyes:

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Sat Jul 28, 2001 8:02 am

In a current PBEM US tankers were used to supply Brisbane (from LA I believe) I don't remember seeing them before, but they do get used.

madflava13 · Post by **madflava13** » Tue Jul 31, 2001 7:55 pm

I've seen TKs used by the Allies in almost all my games. They aren't used very much, but I've seen Port Moresby and Johnston resupplied with them. Both times were during periods where those bases were conducting or under fierce air attacks. I think the AI can keep up with normal air ops using MCSs, but when you've got some serious furballs going on for multiple weeks, the AI needs the "big mammas" (10,000 ton TKs) to keep the bases supplied...

Ranger-75 · Post by **Ranger-75** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 8:28 am

I will also confirm that the program appears to use escorts based on sub contacts. My latest game (solo) has shown almost no sub activity on the convoy routes and I'm getting by with only 4DD in LA and 2 DD in India. They both get used (sometimes) and tankers get used (even less frequently). Every so often I run a sh!tload of MCS back to SanFran with the empty APAs and CSs and then I dump a few thousand additional supply in Pearl on the next trip out, This has kept the Central Pacific well supplied witha a very low number of MCS beung used. I also spread the extra MCS around, but don't seem to see any of them being used.
Having some MCS units in Canton Is. helps until Tonga can be built up. US Fighters can fly further south until tonga is built to at least AF:2.

Ranger-75 · Post by **Ranger-75** » Thu Sep 13, 2001 6:55 pm

I've now progressed about 1 & 1/2 years and have paid attention to the routine convoy on each turn and can now report the following:

1. DDs in both LA and India will get used, especially if there are enemy subs spotted on the convoy routes. This is more important in LA, where all the old Clemson DDs and any new DEs should be parked. I've lost 60 MCS, 10 AP and 2 TK so far, most of that to enemy subs in the central pacific (on the other hand, over 300 Japanese vessels of these types are on the bottom).

2. TK units get used regularly, but not every week.

3. Putting MCS units San Francisco and San Diego, really increases the amount of MCS in the routine convoy. I can tell that these ships were being used, because when the enemy subs put holes in them during the convoy run, I track the ships down and they end up in SF and SD in addition to LA. I have seen to total MCS used go over 400 a few times. (My bases are Very well supplied, I am after all, a Quartermaster Officer).

4. Damaged ships continue to get used with no apparent loss of efficiency, so unless you don't want the shipyard points "wasted" on repairing the MCS, you don't have to scuttle them. (You can see this if you watch your own subs attact the enemy merchant fleet.) That would be a personal decision. For me, over 30 damage and goodbye, the MCS is getting scuttled.

5. Placing MCS units in areas like Brisbane, Midway, Canton, Fiji, New Caledonia, has NO EFFECT on the routine convoy system. These units will just sit there. After I moved them to either fowrard areas or to SF,SD,LA, the numbers of MCS in the RCS actually INCREASED. Keeping a few MCS in Auckland, and Canton Is. can help with shuttling Air units, but other "rear areas" do not need MCS. I keep all the MCS not used for RCS in my HQ bases (including western Australia) where they can run out emergency convoys to forward bases under attack.

6. LA needs no more than 3 TK units of about 6 ships each. The remaining TK and AOs are best kept at the main HQ bases (Pearl and wherever SOUTHPAC and SWPAC are) and certain "key" locations where they can form an instant Replenish TF to keep a long distance TF's DDs from running out of fuel. I keep 1 TK or AO unit at Johnston, Kwajelin, Canton, Milne Bay, & Pearl. I keep 2 AO units at Wake, Rabaul & Truk. This allows me to send a TF from LA to Rabual with DDs in it and not worry about having them run out of fuel. Just form a replishsh TF at the port closest to the low fuel DDs and have the DD TF replenish. Most of the time the Replenish TF actually has enough movement to go back to its home port so you can disband it right away.

Dean Robb · Post by **Dean Robb** » Fri Oct 26, 2001 7:51 pm

According to long-time gurus and PWHints, the AI uses ships in the pool for routine convoys. It uses existing groups and pulls the ships for them from the replacement pool. New groups are created (at another point) based on the number of ships in the pool.

So. To increase both the number of groups and the number of ships per group, periodically go to all the collection points and send the ships there to the pool just before you end your turn.

My own experiences (playing PW since it's original boxed relase by SSI) has been that this is how it works.

Elvis1965 · Post by **Elvis1965** » Fri Oct 26, 2001 9:26 pm

I am a PacWar newbie.

Help me out here. Both sides run routine convoy activity.

But in the couple of games (more like turns) I have played, my forward bases of Port Moresby, Miline, New Caledonia, Fiji, etc are low on fuel & supplies.

Port Moresby is under attack and it's supply situation is acute. The others just worrisome.

I have put new airgroups in many places.

Is this why the fuel levels are dwindling? Or am I being impatient and just need to let the Routine Convoys struggle against the curve of battles and new force distributions???

Can the Routine Supply Convoys keep up with the pressing issues at Port Moresby etc??

underdog · Post by **underdog** » Sat Oct 27, 2001 6:07 am

Elvis, are your forward bases iso-bases? If Port Moresby is under attack it may well be. That would keep routine convoys from resupplying there. You have to resupply iso-bases manually.

Even if it isn't an iso-base, I seem to have to manually resupply some critical locations where there is a lot of activity early in the game.

You could try making the base you want in question a HQ and/or a HQ target.

(Does anybody know whether making a friendly base a target increases routine supply? I seem to remember it does somewhat, but I'm not sure.)