Submarines with radars

[Sardaukar]

US submarines with SJ radars have obvious advantage in getting into contact with IJN shipping. But they also had air warning radar (called SD). Would it do anything to equip boats with these too ?? It seems that radar-equipped boats are still highly vulnerable to air attacks..which should not be the case.

From:
http://www.fleetsubmarine.com/radar.html

The earliest radar installed in the fleet boats was the SD air search radar. This was a very basic unit. Operated from the conning tower, the SD radar was only vaguely directional. It was capable of warning that a plane was within about 6 miles of the boat, but couldn't really pinpoint a bearing, or give much in the way of information.

The main advantage it conferred was that it warned of aircraft in the vicinity, and could also indicate if they were coming closer, giving the boat time to dive and elude. The obvious problem was that it was still short range—6 miles can be covered in just over a minute at 300 mph—and was of very little use for surface searches.

Cheers,

M.S.

[Ron Saueracker]

Welcome to the ASW model and the submarines which won't dive during daylight, with or without radar.

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Welcome to the ASW model and the submarines which won't dive during daylight, with or without radar.

Kinda thought it'd be like that... Been wondering why my subs return from coast of Japan with all AA ammunition expended...[X(][:D] But has anyone tried to test if Air Radar would help ??

[DuckofTindalos]

Why don't you try it and tell us?

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Why don't you try it and tell us?

Because I'm too scared about editor !! [:D] I have enough hard time to play the game...[:'(]

[DuckofTindalos]

Don't be scared... It probably won't make your computer explode and blackout your town. Probably...[X(]

[testarossa]

There are two types of radars in the database Surface (for installation on ships) and Air (for instalation on planes). I cant see which one is actually for AA detection. May be they are considered to be dual purpose in the game?

Although with the rate my aircrafts killing IJN submarines (more than 20 sunk by a/cs alone) i suspect air detection is not modelled in the game. Radar is used only for the surface target detection (increases your chances to initiate an attack).

[Sardaukar]

It seems that air detection is somewhat modelled in game. I tested it briefly by editing tutorial scenario and comparing the results to original. I gave US subs "SD Radar" (in addition to SJ) with following stats: Range 20 (20 000), Effect 70, Penetration 500 (used to indicate Surface-based Air Search radar, compare to CXAM for example) and Weight 100.

In original, I did send all subs next to IJ bases. IJA/IJN Level bombers and patrol planes were set to ASW at 2000 ft. Float planes to Naval Search, 2000ft. I played it to end of the month (about 3 weeks). Results were 5 hits to submarines (with 10-20 attacks daily).

Then I did same in edited version. Positioning was same, as were other settings. Number of attacks daily were about same too. Only difference was "SD Radar" in subs. Only one sub was hit, thus 1 hit.

That is not conclusive proof about anything, since it was just a brief test. Subs in both cases expend their AA ammunition. But it seems to indicate that subs evade air attacks better if they also have surface to air search radar. That is set by setting Penetration value to 500 (at least it's so for big long range radars in CVs and such).

Cheers,

M.S.

[Sardaukar]

I don't have much time for tinkering with editor, but testing this should be quite easy. Just edit tutorial and play it Head to Head. No other air ops than ASW and Naval search with same parameters as I used. Then run the original and compare the results.

[Sardaukar]

Just added SD and SV radars for subs in CHS1.02 for my own amusement...and realized I prolly have to add air search radars to large amount of other vessels too...[:D][8D]. Haven't yet truly tested this concept, but I doubt it'll do any harm either...[8D]..unless if it completely messes up Air ASW..[:(]

[Ron Saueracker]

I'm interested in the results of putting SC radar on subs as well as SJ. I wonder what it will do?

[testarossa]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Just added SD and SV radars for subs in CHS1.02 for my own amusement...and realized I prolly have to add air search radars to large amount of other vessels too...]

Why not to increase a penetration value for the existing sets? I put 500 for the SJ set. And PY1s didn't achieve a single hit on 8 subs 1 hex from the base. Detection works fine. every turn 5-7 subs were detected by ASW missions, but no hits. I'll try to do the same for IJN boats.

Edited: Although could be the low exp (40-50) of PY1s, will try to change that too.

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: testarossa

Why not to increase a penetration value for the existing sets? I put 500 for the SJ set. And PY1s didn't achieve a single hit on 8 subs 1 hex from the base. Detection works fine. every turn 5-7 subs were detected by ASW missions, but no hits. I'll try to do the same for IJN boats.

Edited: Although could be the low exp (40-50) of PY1s, will try to change that too.

By adding 500 you just made SJ an surface to air search radar..now it's no longer surface to surface search radar. That's why you need 2 sets. SJ and SD/SV.

[Sardaukar]

Interestingly..database includes H2S and Oboe navigation radars for airplanese too... I wonder if they are used in some planes and what *their* effect will be for night bombing ?? This is getting more interesting day by day !! Might be interesting to add them to Lancasters if they are not already there [:)]. I think I'm now suitably happy with my sub radars [:D].

[Sardaukar]

*Bump*

At least SD radar seem to protect Subs from air attacks quite well. Have to play more to see if they imbalance the game.

[Halsey]

Man! Why weren't these included in the original game?[&:]

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Man! Why weren't these included in the original game?[&:]

There seem to be lot of stuff that is in database and in game that didn't make it to "final product" or are not explained at all..[:'(]. Have to be careful, though...especially when messing with undocumented devices like Radar detector, sonar and such. Someone said those device classes are also found. But no-one can tell how they effect in game..or what the results will be.

Problem with my experiments is that I actually have to play the game far enough to see the gameplay effects even when it's easy to *test* them in separate scenarios. Very time consuming..but at least SD radar that I added to my modified CHS1.02 seems to work satisfactory way. it doesn't make US subs invulnerable but reduces hits. Seems that it may give some sort of evasive bonus..as it should.

[Speedysteve]

But I don't understand why these weren't included as upgrades in the 'standard' scenario........

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: Speedy

But I don't understand why these weren't included as upgrades in the 'standard' scenario........

You gotta ask from scenario designers...[:D]. But I bet there are lot of things GG & Co did program into game that no-one didn't get to think about yet...[8D]. One possibility is that there was not enough time to test everything for bugs and gameplay balance.

[witpqs]

So, is this going to be included in CHS?