What what what!?!?!

[pauk]

you see, guys?

he couldn't wait for 2 minutes.....[:'(][:D]

[DuckofTindalos]

1 minute, 39 seconds!

[Nikademus]

huh huh huh huh huh huh huh huh huh

[Rob322]

ORIGINAL: Jarhead0331

ORIGINAL: demonterico

Jarhead,

This is a no win situation for you. One against many.

I appreciate the post and your intentions...I also respect your message...that being said, I like the odds and think I have you all right where I want you...[:'(]

So you have is a state of boredom over another pointless thread? It isn't infantile to say that if something is too expensive then you shouldn't make the purchase, it's common sense. Do you go to a Porsche dealership and complain to them that it costs so much more than a Camaro for instance?

It's called Capitalism which is the American way of life. You charge what you think is reasonable to try and cover your costs as well as hopefully make a profit. If your research shows people will pay more then let's not all be surprised when it's charged. Look at gasoline, the price keeps going up but according to current statistics the demand for gasoline is still rising. What can we predict for gas prices to do next?

Anyhow, this is getting tedious and it's all relative anyways. Spending $70 for a game for me now is not as major an outlay as it was for me say 10 years ago. Ten years ago I wouldn't have been able to afford it but I doubt I'd be here whining about it and belittling people who have chosen to spend the money. I see people spending ungodly sums (to me) on items I'd never buy. There are $400,000 motor homes out there for instance. I don't want one but I'm not going to insult people who buy them as "tools" of the motor home industry. It's their money, they can do as they please.

[wernerpruckner]

79$ was not so bad ( plus taxes it was around 100$ for me). I got several other games for much more ( like bombing the Reich (BTR) - 12o´clock high cost me with taxes around 130$ ).

But I think that the cost/play-time factor of this game is extreme high.
( you can play years and you will probably stil have much fun in PBEMs - I still play BTR PBEMs [:)] and that game is nearly 6 years old and it is still the best European air war strategic game on the market - I waited years for a new USAF or Europe Ablaze (a SSG game))).
The amount of accurate information in this game is great - I have seen many thesis that were not as well researched as was this game.

I can also say that if someone would make a new WIPT with the UV scale I would without thinking pay 200+$ for it!!!

Werner


PS:

Kevin:
>>The real secret is in the pouring technique. It has to be poured at 45 degrees onto the inside of the glass, left to settle for 3 mins, then topped off and scraped. In mainland Europe, the bars just pour it out in one go and throw it at you!<<
yes, and the glass will break and the Guiness still stands

[DuckofTindalos]

ORIGINAL: swift
yes, and the göass will break and the Guiness still stands

All wobbly...[:D]

[Rob322]

ORIGINAL: swift

79$ was not so bad ( plus taxes it was around 100$ for me). I got several other games for much more ( like bombing the Reich (BTR) - 12o´clock high cost me with taxes around 130$ ).

But I think that the cost/play-time factor of this game is extreme high.
( you can play years and you will probably stil have much fun in PBEMs - I still play BTR PBEMs [:)] and that game is nearly 6 years old and it is still the best European air war strategic game on the market - I waited years for a new USAF or Europe Ablaze (a SSG game))).
The amount of accurate information in this game is great - I have seen many thesis that were not as well researched as was this game.

I can also say that if someone would make a new WIPT with the UV scale I would without thinking pay 200+$ for it!!!

Werner


PS:

Kevin:
>>The real secret is in the pouring technique. It has to be poured at 45 degrees onto the inside of the glass, left to settle for 3 mins, then topped off and scraped. In mainland Europe, the bars just pour it out in one go and throw it at you!<<
yes, and the göass will break and the Guiness still stands

Thanks to Swift for sterring this topic back to an important and useful topic, BEER!

[wernerpruckner]

After I see how bad the Austrian National Team is "playing" against Scotland I need more of it !!!

[Oznoyng]

ORIGINAL: Distiller
For EUR70 per copy one could really expect a better product.

I disagree.

WitP may eventually sell 15,000 copies, grossing Matrix perhaps 15,000 x $70 = $1,050,000. As gamers, we are accustomed to paying roughly $50 for a game. However, the games that have set our expectations for cost sell between hundreds of thousands of copies and millions of copies, not 15,000 copies. Taking even a game that sells 100,000 copies at $50, the gross is $5,000,000.

Does WitP look like a game written in the early 90's? Yes, it does. The simple fact is that any game company that is expecting sales of 15000 units, maximum, needs to cut corners and deliver on the most important aspects of the game. While I can cite many problems with the game system, it is still very playable. With the kind of budgets that produce Command and Conquer or Ultima Online, we'd be looking the kind of quality you are talking about. Unfortunately, we'd also be looking at a game that sold for $500.

Any way you slice it, not very many people are going to buy a WitP style game. For those that do, they have to accept that they are in a minority and will see higher costs for items that cater to them, and that the items available will have some rough edges.

[Feinder]

While I agree with everything you're saying Oznoyng, in all fairness to Matrix:

1. I'd bet the original engine of WitP (UV), -was- designed back in the lat 90s. That's exactly why it looks, and runs on boxes that old. Granted, WitP evolved into entirely different beast than UV.

2. Also figure that it is very rare, that Devs create code with the expectionaion of greater processer power in the future. Ultimately, we know it happens, but I've only seen a case or two where software was specc'd with the anticipation that greater processing power (and thus the ability to run), would be available in the future.

3. Most grognards still have their boxes from the 90s anyway. I see folks that post the specs of their boxes on these boards, and I'm thinking, "H_ll, my alarm clock on my night-stand is smarter than their PC. No wonder they're having trouble!" I don't know that Matrix actually figured on the fact that the audience (mostly) have crappy boxes, and so thus you could write it as such. I think it's more that it was designed in the 90s, and it happens to be fortunate that folks around here still happen to have boxes from the 90s, so it's all good.

-F-

[Tophat]

I went to origins mainly because this game was coming out.I got to meet Mogami<poor man looked exhausted>and get a firsthand overview.Much to my regret I'd been in such a hurry the previous night i left my wallet in cleveland,so i endedup having my good friend of over 20 yrs buy it for me.....[:D] i've had to putup with ribbing over this ever since but the game is well worth it all.

[ilovestrategy]

Oh, this is too cool, a chance to add another post to my count so I can someday get that fourth star! [:D]

[Tophat]

You shameless poster you!!!!!![:-]

[Knavey]

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

ORIGINAL: Knavey

Doh,

Forgot to say...aside from UO this game is the game that has taken more of my time than any other. Price was worth it, and will continue to be worth it for some time to come regardless of the games flaws.

Oh boy, Ultima Online. Hours of trying to grandmaster mining. click on the the pick, click on the rock, click on the pick, click on the rock. I said in another thread in this forum one time my kid thought I was insane when I told her it would take me 6 months real time to grandmaster taming, one skill of many [X(]. Took me 3 years to max everyone out. So, i can truly understand what you WiTP fanboys are talking about [:)]. I'm looking at October before I can get enough $$$ to buy it. [8|]. BTW Knavey, I made it to 95 mining before I couldn't take it anymore [:D][:D][:D][:D]

I was on UO from day 1 and stuck with it for over 5 years. Favorite thing to do was run a shop. Was accused at times of being one of the richest men in Sosaria. Don't know if I was, but I sure enjoyed the more tedious aspects of shopkeeper. I know your pain with the point and click. In the early years it really took effort to make GM before the macros and skill timers took over. I probably had more fun in that game than in any other (including WitP but it is a different style of fun), but they slowly ruined the game as it adapted over the years. Became less fun and although I really hated giving it up, the game had just moved past what I really liked.

Trust me though that you will not regret buying this game. Like I said, it is 2nd only to UO on my list of hours played, and although I am sure it will never eclipse that total, it is going to give a hearty try.

[sadja]

I played a play by mail (Land) "Schubel and Sons Global Surpemacy " It cost me about 250.00 a month if you count long distance phone calls to allies and the SOB's I played against. I made about 7800.00 that year and my apt/utillities was only 230.00/month. The 70+ dollars is nothing. That game cost you money if you attacked or were attacked. The gameist thing was to have your group launch a bunch of attacks on 1 guy and cost him about 200.00 and drive him out of the game financally.

Sadja

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: Jarhead0331

ORIGINAL: demonterico

Jarhead,

This is a no win situation for you. One against many.

I appreciate the post and your intentions...I also respect your message...that being said, I like the odds and think I have you all right where I want you...[:'(]

Ok,
That's it. Out of principle I think Jarhead has already ordered WitP, or is in the process of DDL'ing it right now on his 56K modem. Now wonder he has the time to lurk this thread and strategically "bump" it. That being the case Jarhead, after you complete your DL and have had a suitable Familiarization period, I got dibs on your first PBEM.

Let's see you put your money where your mouth is Marine! Whoo yah! I say a Navy guy like me can whip you by 42'.

PS. My current opponent is FRENCH![;)]...think you can do better? I'll even play the Japanese to make it somewhat fair.

(no offese Francois, you're the toughest Frog I know)

[Jarhead0331]

ORIGINAL: TheElf

ORIGINAL: Jarhead0331

ORIGINAL: demonterico

Jarhead,

This is a no win situation for you. One against many.

I appreciate the post and your intentions...I also respect your message...that being said, I like the odds and think I have you all right where I want you...[:'(]

Ok,
That's it. Out of principle I think Jarhead has already ordered WitP, or is in the process of DDL'ing it right now on his 56K modem. Now wonder he has the time to lurk this thread and strategically "bump" it. That being the case Jarhead, after you complete your DL and have had a suitable Familiarization period, I got dibs on your first PBEM.

Let's see you put your money where your mouth is Marine! Whoo yah! I say a Navy guy like me can whip you by 42'.

PS. My current opponent is FRENCH![;)]...think you can do better? I'll even play the Japanese to make it somewhat fair.

(no offese Francois, you're the toughest Frog I know)

Interesting...reverse psychology...muuust....resist....

[Knavey]

Just do the PBEM thing for a month and then restart. Found that it is better to familiarize that way. Learn more too.

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: pauk

WiTP is underpriced. And I would pay 10x more if i would know that Nik, Terminus and Speedy will shut up[:D]

Oops. Fellow Stooges another unhappy cuctomer. I don't understand it. We talk in depth, factually and helpfully and we get this. I don't understand it

[:'(]

[m10bob]

Okay...I'm only gonna say this once....
Beck's dark....Amstel (not "light"), San Miguel's(Phillipines version tested in combat/Vietnam)...
I too think the price of the game sucks, but I also think the price of a 1942 Piper Cub sucks as well.If I want either, I have to pay the price.
I did, (on WITP anyway)..
Like most other posters here, I am a military history afficianado, and this is the ONLY game covering the genre at this level.
How much DO you pay for the ONLY of anything?....[;)]
(Oh, yes, we already know why American beer is like making love in a canoe..)