What what what!?!?!

[Theng]

Better late than never for a reply. My first computer game was War in Russia from Gary Grigsby from 1983. The MSRP then was $79.99. I lived at that time overseas and had to pay 369 Deutschmarks for it. I worked for 3 weeks on a summer job to get the money for it. What's the lesson of this?
a) I got paid shitty at that time.
b) I got ripped off for 369 DM by the importer
c) The cost in nominal dollars for the Gary Grisgby game did not change in 22 years. In constant dollars the price of the game is next to nothing now. I wish I could say that about gasoline. According to the BLS $79.99 in 1983 dollars has the same purchase power as 156.93 today. So in 1983 dollars I am paying $40.81 for the game, which is actually below the $49 the poster suggested. As you see, it's all a matter of perspective.

I think this forum is a good testimony that the demand for Gary Grigsby games is highly inelastic. There is a certain subsegment of buyers who do not care about the cost of the game, whereas a very large segment will never buy it. Please note that this is a function of an aging gamer population. Basically the same people who played wargames in the 1980s when wargaming was the #1 game segment are playing it today. Some attrition, some additions, net zero effect. It's just that we are making today way more money than in 1980s. Basically the $20 price difference is a trivial amount. It does not compute in the purchasing decision. Also, I would say that today less wargames are sold than in the 1980s and the cost of producing them has gone up.

The aging gamer population is actually the most concerning factor. We, as the gamer community, are losing the battle for new kids, that get absorbed into the shooter games, rather than into the thinking games and don't realize the fun and longer life of a wargame. Or maybe they prefer to shoot things up now rather than play a thinking game.

[Speedysteve]

I am the future. Only 25 here [:D]

[Theng]

Speedy, you didn't play Gary Grigsby games when you were 3 years old? Shame on you!

[duckenf]

ORIGINAL: Xian
I think this forum is a good testimony that the demand for Gary Grigsby games is highly inelastic. There is a certain subsegment of buyers who do not care about the cost of the game, whereas a very large segment will never buy it. Please note that this is a function of an aging gamer population. Basically the same people who played wargames in the 1980s when wargaming was the #1 game segment are playing it today. Some attrition, some additions, net zero effect. It's just that we are making today way more money than in 1980s. Basically the $20 price difference is a trivial amount. It does not compute in the purchasing decision. Also, I would say that today less wargames are sold than in the 1980s and the cost of producing them has gone up.

The aging gamer population is actually the most concerning factor. We, as the gamer community, are losing the battle for new kids, that get absorbed into the shooter games, rather than into the thinking games and don't realize the fun and longer life of a wargame. Or maybe they prefer to shoot things up now rather than play a thinking game.

Well, I agree with your general analysis on the GG gaming population (being one of them myself), but I think that it depends on what you compare it to. For instance, the price of the computer (Apple II) that I originally played War in the South Pacific on was about $2000 in 1982. In 2005, you can get a very decent Dell computer system for about $500 (that would be about $250 in 1982 money). A CD costs less than an old 5 1/4" floppy did...

Of course, the GG games take advantage of all the new capabilities of the new systems and are a lot more in-depth now. And with more detail a monumentally better interface, faster resolution, and a much broader scope, I think that WITP is very much worth the money. I seem to remember reading a short interview with a designer (maybe GG, but perhaps John Tiller) where they said that in the 1980s they could create 3-6 games a year and make a bundle, now it takes them 2-3 years to produce a single game. That's a lot of sunk costs before any return on investment...

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: Xian

Speedy, you didn't play Gary Grigsby games when you were 3 years old? Shame on you!

Sorry [;)]

First one was War in the South Pacific in 1988

[DuckofTindalos]

Bah! Infant!

[YankeeAirRat]

Anyone remember the days of Victory Games, GDW, Avalon Hill, etc. All those great beer and pretzel games. Let alone games such as Squad Leader and its follow on Advanced Squad Leader. At various times I think just to get everything that I thought I would need just to play some of those games. I know for example that when I finally got all of my own ASL sets I spent about USD$200 alone in just one hobby store to get all the sets that I wanted.
Remember that this is your own hobby, at anyone time you could wait and see if the price will come down a while or look around and see if someone sells a used copy someplace such as EBay or some other online auction site. Also remember, that when Matrix, Battlefield, and Shrapnel games first came into being most people felt that the $49.99 was a high cost and that was very unreasonable, if you also included S&H to deliever a box to a home, for a game in a niche market. However, for a large number of people they realized that the games being produced by these companines although not completely up to par with companies like EA, Bioware, Interplay, etc. They have been give those companies a decent run for thier money in the topics covered. The other advantage is that most of these games are produced by teams usually under 20people. I know that one of my favorite games Harpoon has been picked up by Matrix and the next update to Harpoon3 and something called Harpoon Commander's Edition (which is the original version with some new features) are supposed to be published sometime here in the next 6 months or so. I would be willing to pay a decent price for those games. Even though I have about 8-10 different version floating somewhere in my bookcases in my office at home.
I have also known folks that will spend 1000-1500 to fly from where I am in Washington State to places such as London or Berlin to go and buy add-ons in both hardware and software for microsoft's flight simulator game, some of these same people will also scoure retail stores looking for good strategy/wargames to play and end up paying at just the electronics store 25-90 dollars for a game or three. Total cost there at least 2000+ dollars.

The final word that I can tell you is that again it is your hobby, your money, your decision, there are always ways around to have enough to make a future purchase of this game.

just my .02cents

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Bah! Infant!

Quiet Grandad

[Gem35]

In 2005, you can get a very decent Dell computer system for about $500

IMO, I'd prefer to build my own computer. It's alot more fun, you learn alot more and you know what you are getting for your money. I perceieve Dell sorta like the Borg. [;)]

[DuckofTindalos]

Speedy, you insolent little so-and-so. If it wasn't for my rheumatism, arthritis, failing eyesight, bad back, halitosis and generally bitter outlook on life, I'd punish you for that!

[Nikademus]

AlienWare! [8D]

[DuckofTindalos]

Now, now, Buttdemus, be a good little Alienware drone and go away, while the adults are talking.[:D]

[Nikademus]

thats not a nice thing to say while my laptop is sitting next to me currently working away at your hacking into your computer.

Prepare to always suffer vulnerable hits on your Panthers.......

[DuckofTindalos]

So that's what's been feebly trying to get through my firewall! Better luck next time, Stoatgobbler!

[Speedysteve]

Nik don't worry about it. He does anyway. You gotts to love Bazooka's. KABLAMMMOOOOOOO eh T?

[DuckofTindalos]

Bah, the game is broken!

[Speedysteve]

No no no. Penetration value of Bazooka is 104. Panther front hull armour is 90 odd. Not broken. Working as designed. Face facts T. So far its England 1 Denamrk 0 with a draw too [:'(]

[DuckofTindalos]

Yeah well, I felt sorry for you, what with the cricket and the football, so I went a little easier on you. Don't invoke my wrath!

[Nikademus]

Every game is broken when your at the helm.

Wow...you guys should see the collection of farm animal pictures Terminus keeps on his computer........gotta go tell Frag.

[:'(]

[DuckofTindalos]

You should probably be careful with those, Buttdemus... If you like your computer intact, that is.