Oh the horror, the horror

vlar · Post by **vlar** » Sat Dec 15, 2001 10:35 pm

something so... just so very...so unbelievably horrible just happened to me. i created a SC TF in singapore with 2 BBs, 2 CAs, 6 CLs, 2 CLAAs and 8 DDs. the japs had a couple TFs supplying their divisions fighting in singapore. they had about
3-5 CLs and about 10 DDs and a lot of merchant ships. so here i am preparing to massacre their tiny TFs. THEN OUT OF GOD DAMN NOWHERE A JAP TF SHOWS UP WITH 2 BBs, 1 CA, 1 CL AND 6 DDs COMMANDED BY REAR ADMIRAL NISHIMURA. THEY SHOW UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT, SURPRISE MY SHIPS AND START MASSACRING THEM WITH GUNS AND TORPS.
THE END RESULT IS:

1 RAMILLES BB - 97 DAMAGE POINTS
1 ROYAL SOVEREIGN - 24 DAMAGE POINTS
1 DORETSHIRE CA - 13 DAMAGE POINTS
1 ENTERPRIZE CL - GONE
1 MAURITIUS CL - 10 DAMAGE POINTS

NOW GUESS WHY I DIDN'T WRITE ANYTHING ABOUT THE JAPANESE. CAN YOU GUESS? BECAUSE MY SHIPS DIDN'T FIRE A SINGLE SHELL AT THE JAPS DURING THE ENTIRE BATTLE!!!!!. THEN THEY RETREATED AN MY SHIPS RETURNED TO PORT.
can anyone explain how is this even possible.
THEN AFTER MY SHIPS RETURNED TO PORT THEY BOMBARDED SINGAPORE KILLING ANOTHER 150 SOLDIERS GIVE OR TAKE A FEW AND DESTROYED ABOUT 20 PLANES.
THEN BOMBERS FROM SAIGON CAME TO FINISH THE JOB DESTROYED ANOTHER DD AND 2 PCs AND 2 MCs AND 3 MORE PLANES.
IS THIS A HORROR OR WHAT.

p.s. can someone tell me. is this a bug or is it just my luck. condolence posts are also welcomed.

gdpsnake · Post by **gdpsnake** » Sun Dec 16, 2001 3:23 am

On occassion one TF will surprise the other and shoot for free. No doubt your spotters failed to see the approaching bombardment TF and you got caught with your proverbial pants around your ankles. Welcome to the "unknown" in war!
Also, Jap TF's early in the war are better at night fights even without surprise.
Nasty business - war!

LargeSlowTarget · Post by **LargeSlowTarget** » Mon Dec 17, 2001 1:37 am

Hope you learned a lesson: No battle plan survives contact with the enemy.

If it comforts you: strange things like this happen in PW from time to time. One of my PBEM opponents (playing the Allies) tried to bombard Saipan in late 43 with 2 modern BB, 6 CA, 3 CL & destroyers. I had all my capital ships (had lost only a few) in two TFs in Saipan on reaction movement with range 0, and as a last ditch defense a TF with 17 Yugumo and Fubuki-DDs. Well, my heavy ships - with agressive leaders and low TF numbers - did nothing to stop the Americans, but they ran smack into my destroyers. My tincans made a night attack with torpedoes, sinking the South Dakota and heavily damaging several cruisers. There was never any return fire. At the same time, I also had three carrier TFs on reaction movement in Saipan. For two turns there were several American CTF off Saipan with standoff range 2. Oddly, not a single aircraft from my carriers rose to attack - neither did the American carrier air groups.
Another game, another example: my opponent (as Japanese) tried an all-out attack on Canton. I had Halsey there with four CV. I got multiple reaction movements in the same turn! First my TF sank the enemy carriers, then went for the Surface-TFs. Final score: 4 CV, 9 (!) BB, 1 CA sunk. My own ships were never touched.

A famous prussian king once said something like "A successful commander-in-chief not only needs to be skilled, he also must have fortune (luck)".

P.S.: My fortune ran out in my current PBEM game as Japanese. My opponent has captured Paramushiro and started bombing the home islands. I have 2 CV and 4 CA left in fighting condition. It's June 1942. What a humiliation!

[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: LargeSlowTarget ]</p>

Erik Burriss · Post by **Erik Burriss** » Mon Dec 17, 2001 10:39 am

Well, I've never had anything quite that lopsided happen to me, but I've had plenty of embarrising surface actions. Usually when I try to invade Saipan I get into a ruckus where Yamato and Musashi blow the crap out of two modern US BBs, older BBs and CAs trash the next few while taking punishment and my CAs sink a CL or two and some destroyers while getting torpedoed.

Net result: four or five US BBs back in the shop for 4-6 months in exchange for one or two older Jap BBs sunk and some lighter units lost on both sides.

As Japan I can never get quite the same results the computer can though.

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Mon Dec 17, 2001 11:11 am

Greetings. How many PP's did your HQ have? (may have contributed to your being surprised-who was your TF leader?)
During a suprise the suprising TF gets a free round. If they damage your ships enough they will not return fire once the regular shooting begins.

In a PBEM game I once had 5 British BB's and support ships in a reaction TF surprised and destroyed by a musch smaller IJN TF. Then Jap carriers finished off the damaged ships. Neither my land based air or TF ever fired a shot.

[ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: Mogami ]</p>

Ranger-75 · Post by **Ranger-75** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 11:22 am

If your TFs are moving into enemy areas and you don't have air cover from friendly LBA (check the screens) you need to be very aware of your HQ PPs and your TF leaders. In these cases a very agressive TF CDR may NOT be the best choice, especially in a surface TF going into enemy areas. The agressive leader will likely help with walking into a reaction move "trap" by the other side. This is even more dangerous if the enemy still has substantial surface assets available (BBs and CAs).
Enemy surface TFs are not supposed to react in friendly LBA zones, but I'm not sure that that's always a safe bet.
Good luck.

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 2:51 pm

Greetings, good point about aggresive TF leaders. Halsey has lost more battles for me then anyone else, by tearing off after some wimpy Jap TF and then getting creamed next turn by LBA

vlar · Post by **vlar** » Fri Dec 21, 2001 10:21 am

well, im glad im not alone with this problems. but did it ever really happened in the war. because if it didnt happen in the real war it shouldnt happen in the vrtual war.

Erik Burriss · Post by **Erik Burriss** » Fri Dec 21, 2001 12:17 pm

There were plenty of srface fights where one side had it all their way.

Surigao Strait. So lopsided Maryland didn't get achance to shoot.

Or Savo Island, where multiple allied cruisers were sunk in exchange for a Japanese admiral's chart room.

Vella Gulf, three of four Jap DDs sunk by six US DDs in a suprise torpedo attack, no hits on the Americans.

madflava13 · Post by **madflava13** » Fri Dec 21, 2001 6:36 pm

Here's a real life "Too aggressive" blunder-
Leyte invasion when Halsey pulled his carriers and fast battleships off their covering duties to steam north after Ozawa's empty carrier decoys...Damn near cost us the invasion, if it weren't for the fierce attacks the "Taffy" escorts put up...
I still love Halsey though.