i think i have down loaded the up date, but when i go into the game it still shows v2.2 is this right or have i done it wrong?
with the thoughts of v2.4,i dont know why you dont go the hole way and remove india as well.this area is just a side show to the main war in the pacific.and it had very little effect on the out come
v2.3--2.4
Hello, if you downloaded from the Matrix site you have 2.2
ftp://ftp.matrixgames.com/pub/PacificWar/PacificWarMatrixEditionv2-3.zip
[ January 26, 2002: Message edited by: Mogami ]</p>
ftp://ftp.matrixgames.com/pub/PacificWar/PacificWarMatrixEditionv2-3.zip
[ January 26, 2002: Message edited by: Mogami ]</p>
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
Yeah, who needs the Brits anyway <img src="smile.gif" border="0">Originally posted by fab4:
with the thoughts of v2.4,i dont know why you dont go the hole way and remove india as well.this area is just a side show to the main war in the pacific.and it had very little effect on the out come
Actually, the reason China is cut out is that Pac War cannot model it, but it CAN model Burma-India fairly well. It is just a matter of coming to a balance between too strong and too weak Indian Divisions, so that Japan can take Burma easily, but not roll over India as easily, and not to have the British back in Malaya by late 1942.
Use the link Mogami posted in his message. It's just the Web site that's still linking to v2.2.Originally posted by Captain Akira Sogi:
<img src="confused.gif" border="0"> Mogami, if the Matrix site has v2.2, where can I download a copy of v2.3?
Some days you're the windshield.
Some days you're the bug.
Some days you're the bug.
thanks for that,its down loaded ok.
had a look, its nice to see a few more bases for the brits.this should stop the japs over running the whole area.my opponant ignors most of the pacfic,and goes and knocks the brits out very quickly.in the original game they were far to week
and i would just ignore them.infact i would evac the whole of india and move all the forces down to dutch held ares which would cause the japs problems,the only draw back was no reinforcments for the brits.
had a look, its nice to see a few more bases for the brits.this should stop the japs over running the whole area.my opponant ignors most of the pacfic,and goes and knocks the brits out very quickly.in the original game they were far to week
and i would just ignore them.infact i would evac the whole of india and move all the forces down to dutch held ares which would cause the japs problems,the only draw back was no reinforcments for the brits.
Fab4,
You dont know the half of it! V2.2 The CBI gambit was a little harder than the original. V2.3 its pretty impossible without a major seaborne force hitting either Dacca or India from Rangoon. I did the following steps as Japan 41'campaign
1) historical setting- PH- 3BB's sunk/damaged 2CA's sunk/damaged several minor vessels damaged (pretty poor performance) although it was like 350 Allied planes lost for the turn. A few landings, no big deal...
2) December- take Lingayen and Lagaspi in Phillipines, start air ops against Singapore, organize transports for 17th/25th Armies, kick/stomp the bejezuus out of any allied who moves or dares attack me...
3) January 42- Clark Field collapses and my armies force everyone onto Bataan (this will prove greviously annoying later), Singapore peninsula falling steadily to ground troops supported by air ops, E-V-E-R-Y TF sailing south from India is battered and mostly sunk by NI Nates/Bettys (Repulse TF gone in 60 seconds! EVERY ship in one turn-seems too easy)
4)Feburary 42- Singapore falls to 3 full regiments and Wavell is killed, peninsula is mine, now starting on New Guinea ports, moving transport TF's around without too much interference from Allied Subs, fuel supplies dropped from high of 4400k to 3300k, Approx. 27 TF's running around (2 4-carrier CV/CVL forces, 3 BB bombardment TF's, 6 CA/DD surface forces 2 replenish AO/TK TF's, 10-12 Transport TF's)put Engineer units on Truk to build it up, Bataan is sole holdout on PI...
5) March 42- The party keeps rolling, Palembang, Oosthaven and Jitra all fall in same week with armies freed up from Singapore, Dutch/Allied lose over 140 planes to landings in 1 week without one loss to any of my air groups, I start using NGU units to invade Dole plantation and south PI, takes a few turns but they do OK, Leaderboard shows after 4 rounds Japan is pulled slightly ahead in scoring, Bataan losing ground forces to air groups but my ground troops are getting chewed up pretty badly by the battlin bastards in the process...
6) April 42- wot the ell??? I hit the wall as far as fuel goes, just captured Balikpapan and its neigbor, own that lovely island too, when I send a NGU force from South Seas to Sorong- take the island and what happens- CREAMED by 60 B-17's outta Port Moresby!!!! 260 unit force reduced to 40 in a week (wow, and I saw someone complaining the B-17's wings got clipped too much on this version???-please!) Needless to say NO progress on Bataan- stalemate and I pull out my troops to Manila-let em get hammered by Clark Field AF, I pull every group I can find to Clark Field in the meantime its not much happening.
7)May 42- hmm, done well chasing those Allied TF's around without getting a bloody nose til now, TF-51 comprising of 3CV's it seems- has mauled one of my CA/DD TF's near Santa Cruz from afar- 2 CA/3 DD's are now fish hatcheries and now I cant find the TF! I had to move my patrol planes back to the Tokyo/Okinawa region as Allied subs are avg. 14 merchants a month and a couple TK right in my own backyard each week- Tojo is not happy! Oh yeah to really prove happy hour is over, I moved two regiments back into the Bataan cauldron- where they promptly got chewed up by massively disrupted Allied units...
8) June 42- I completely own the Guadalcanal chain and everything on Rabaul's Is., working hard on New Guinea- Port Moresby and Kitityna are stubborn holdouts, I have spent so much time fretting over the South Pacific I nearly forgot to march on Rangoon and re-arrange air groups in the Saigon/Singapore region. Yeah Bataan is still vexing me- 6 bomber groups/2 fighter groups needed elsewhere and I'm stuck babysitting these aptly named Bastards of Bataan, hmm check on Tokyo and its christmas time (7-8 LCU's and a handful of air groups that I farm out to grow to strength) now I'm afraid to move my transport TF's to Tokyo in fear of the subs still running rampant -I'm "only" losing 4-8 MCS'/TK per turn now...
9) July 42- I managed to catch a 8 piece Henderson TF going to Broome (???) and bagged the bucket of KFC with my cleverly designed CVL/CVE (3CVL-2CVE) TF just north of Port Moresby (whats clever you may ask... It doesnt seem to suffer the prep pts restriction= all my planes, 50-60 fighters 30-40 bombers fly off nearly every time from it) It was happily pounding P.M.'s airfield when along came this tasty slow moving meal. Santa Cruz was finally invaded by the Allies- with an ENG unit! Unfortuanately it was accompanied by a bombardment TF AND that pesky TF-51, I quickly lose 2 more CA's and 3 AP's trying to reinforce the NGU garrison to TF-51. Now with all this happening I quickly move TF-1 (4 CV's 2CVL's +escorts) to the scene of the fight and everyone goes back into hiding so TF-1 takes its frustration out on the Allied Eng unit- no more invasion at the end of the week, Oh yeah I almost forgot in the excitement- first troops enter Rangoon!
10) August 42- Rangoon turns tail and runs! no fight so to speak, 300 Allies lost and theyre outta here! Now for the bad news- in the bottom of the inning 6 air groups (fighter bomber combo's ) pay me a visit at Rangoon, to the tune (toon) of 16 AFV's 32 LCU's and 5 tanks lost in a week-ouch! As this isn't enough insult TF-51 catches one of my Bombardment TF's coming back to Rabaul from P.M. and sinks the Hiei BB, another CA and severely damages 2 more DD's and escapes without a sniff out of 3 nearby NI (80's exp) betty groups Grrrr!!!! And here's the cherry- I try moving troops from Rangoon to Imphal/whatever and they wont go, check ratings, yep 99, whats wrong now? I get hammered at Rangoon again because in my frustration I didnt move the air groups around to cover Rangoon... another pasting!
Quit week- go back and re-read Major Tom's posts, OH, DUH!!!! he only said it too clearly in the 2.3 post- Rangoon LCU's cant advance northward -must be seaborne... Double Dutch DUUHHHH!!!!! where am I supposed to get that kind of TF now I'm up to it in the South Pacific and sent everyone there... Stupidity kills, FIRST DOWN!
11 September 42, starting to look like the real war, sudden proliferation of US tagged TF's in South Pacific like cherry blossoms in Tokyo, finally get Nates in Saigon area upgraded to Oscars- move em to Rangoon, wow whatta battle!!! knocking down Wellingtons, Bristol IF's, by the dozens but too many to keep bombing from making it an even exchange, see a potential problem as Japanese player in letting them build up India til June 42- Now can't hold off counterpunch and its only late 42...South Pacific still a hornets nest as I lose Owen Stanley post to Allies TF-2 (my magical TF) had to put back to Balikpapan for fuel as replenish wouldnt seem to work-would visit from Balikpapan but never fuel-then leave next turn, Now its too hot for me to post em there, Darwin and Port Moresby having Huge air battles with Hollandia and Wewak A6M2 & Betty's thinning out the ranks but next week its back to the same strength, diffrent aircraft types loss of 50+ aircraft per side not uncommon...
thats where I'm at now.
Its not really an after action report, Steve Utley's got the corner on that- just my $.02 on my troubles and triumphs so far
You dont know the half of it! V2.2 The CBI gambit was a little harder than the original. V2.3 its pretty impossible without a major seaborne force hitting either Dacca or India from Rangoon. I did the following steps as Japan 41'campaign
1) historical setting- PH- 3BB's sunk/damaged 2CA's sunk/damaged several minor vessels damaged (pretty poor performance) although it was like 350 Allied planes lost for the turn. A few landings, no big deal...
2) December- take Lingayen and Lagaspi in Phillipines, start air ops against Singapore, organize transports for 17th/25th Armies, kick/stomp the bejezuus out of any allied who moves or dares attack me...
3) January 42- Clark Field collapses and my armies force everyone onto Bataan (this will prove greviously annoying later), Singapore peninsula falling steadily to ground troops supported by air ops, E-V-E-R-Y TF sailing south from India is battered and mostly sunk by NI Nates/Bettys (Repulse TF gone in 60 seconds! EVERY ship in one turn-seems too easy)
4)Feburary 42- Singapore falls to 3 full regiments and Wavell is killed, peninsula is mine, now starting on New Guinea ports, moving transport TF's around without too much interference from Allied Subs, fuel supplies dropped from high of 4400k to 3300k, Approx. 27 TF's running around (2 4-carrier CV/CVL forces, 3 BB bombardment TF's, 6 CA/DD surface forces 2 replenish AO/TK TF's, 10-12 Transport TF's)put Engineer units on Truk to build it up, Bataan is sole holdout on PI...
5) March 42- The party keeps rolling, Palembang, Oosthaven and Jitra all fall in same week with armies freed up from Singapore, Dutch/Allied lose over 140 planes to landings in 1 week without one loss to any of my air groups, I start using NGU units to invade Dole plantation and south PI, takes a few turns but they do OK, Leaderboard shows after 4 rounds Japan is pulled slightly ahead in scoring, Bataan losing ground forces to air groups but my ground troops are getting chewed up pretty badly by the battlin bastards in the process...
6) April 42- wot the ell??? I hit the wall as far as fuel goes, just captured Balikpapan and its neigbor, own that lovely island too, when I send a NGU force from South Seas to Sorong- take the island and what happens- CREAMED by 60 B-17's outta Port Moresby!!!! 260 unit force reduced to 40 in a week (wow, and I saw someone complaining the B-17's wings got clipped too much on this version???-please!) Needless to say NO progress on Bataan- stalemate and I pull out my troops to Manila-let em get hammered by Clark Field AF, I pull every group I can find to Clark Field in the meantime its not much happening.
7)May 42- hmm, done well chasing those Allied TF's around without getting a bloody nose til now, TF-51 comprising of 3CV's it seems- has mauled one of my CA/DD TF's near Santa Cruz from afar- 2 CA/3 DD's are now fish hatcheries and now I cant find the TF! I had to move my patrol planes back to the Tokyo/Okinawa region as Allied subs are avg. 14 merchants a month and a couple TK right in my own backyard each week- Tojo is not happy! Oh yeah to really prove happy hour is over, I moved two regiments back into the Bataan cauldron- where they promptly got chewed up by massively disrupted Allied units...
8) June 42- I completely own the Guadalcanal chain and everything on Rabaul's Is., working hard on New Guinea- Port Moresby and Kitityna are stubborn holdouts, I have spent so much time fretting over the South Pacific I nearly forgot to march on Rangoon and re-arrange air groups in the Saigon/Singapore region. Yeah Bataan is still vexing me- 6 bomber groups/2 fighter groups needed elsewhere and I'm stuck babysitting these aptly named Bastards of Bataan, hmm check on Tokyo and its christmas time (7-8 LCU's and a handful of air groups that I farm out to grow to strength) now I'm afraid to move my transport TF's to Tokyo in fear of the subs still running rampant -I'm "only" losing 4-8 MCS'/TK per turn now...
9) July 42- I managed to catch a 8 piece Henderson TF going to Broome (???) and bagged the bucket of KFC with my cleverly designed CVL/CVE (3CVL-2CVE) TF just north of Port Moresby (whats clever you may ask... It doesnt seem to suffer the prep pts restriction= all my planes, 50-60 fighters 30-40 bombers fly off nearly every time from it) It was happily pounding P.M.'s airfield when along came this tasty slow moving meal. Santa Cruz was finally invaded by the Allies- with an ENG unit! Unfortuanately it was accompanied by a bombardment TF AND that pesky TF-51, I quickly lose 2 more CA's and 3 AP's trying to reinforce the NGU garrison to TF-51. Now with all this happening I quickly move TF-1 (4 CV's 2CVL's +escorts) to the scene of the fight and everyone goes back into hiding so TF-1 takes its frustration out on the Allied Eng unit- no more invasion at the end of the week, Oh yeah I almost forgot in the excitement- first troops enter Rangoon!
10) August 42- Rangoon turns tail and runs! no fight so to speak, 300 Allies lost and theyre outta here! Now for the bad news- in the bottom of the inning 6 air groups (fighter bomber combo's ) pay me a visit at Rangoon, to the tune (toon) of 16 AFV's 32 LCU's and 5 tanks lost in a week-ouch! As this isn't enough insult TF-51 catches one of my Bombardment TF's coming back to Rabaul from P.M. and sinks the Hiei BB, another CA and severely damages 2 more DD's and escapes without a sniff out of 3 nearby NI (80's exp) betty groups Grrrr!!!! And here's the cherry- I try moving troops from Rangoon to Imphal/whatever and they wont go, check ratings, yep 99, whats wrong now? I get hammered at Rangoon again because in my frustration I didnt move the air groups around to cover Rangoon... another pasting!
Quit week- go back and re-read Major Tom's posts, OH, DUH!!!! he only said it too clearly in the 2.3 post- Rangoon LCU's cant advance northward -must be seaborne... Double Dutch DUUHHHH!!!!! where am I supposed to get that kind of TF now I'm up to it in the South Pacific and sent everyone there... Stupidity kills, FIRST DOWN!
11 September 42, starting to look like the real war, sudden proliferation of US tagged TF's in South Pacific like cherry blossoms in Tokyo, finally get Nates in Saigon area upgraded to Oscars- move em to Rangoon, wow whatta battle!!! knocking down Wellingtons, Bristol IF's, by the dozens but too many to keep bombing from making it an even exchange, see a potential problem as Japanese player in letting them build up India til June 42- Now can't hold off counterpunch and its only late 42...South Pacific still a hornets nest as I lose Owen Stanley post to Allies TF-2 (my magical TF) had to put back to Balikpapan for fuel as replenish wouldnt seem to work-would visit from Balikpapan but never fuel-then leave next turn, Now its too hot for me to post em there, Darwin and Port Moresby having Huge air battles with Hollandia and Wewak A6M2 & Betty's thinning out the ranks but next week its back to the same strength, diffrent aircraft types loss of 50+ aircraft per side not uncommon...
thats where I'm at now.
Its not really an after action report, Steve Utley's got the corner on that- just my $.02 on my troubles and triumphs so far
Hi, pretty interesting. The 'clever' TF is only 5 command points so it should fly all the time with a decent leader. TF2 is a whopping 10 command points so it most likely only flys half (still alot though) I admit my TF's are usally 7 or 8 command points (4 CV or 2CV 3-4 CVL/CVE)(I put the 30+ knot ones in 1 TF and the slower ones in the other) I am in Feb 44 now. I never tried for anything north of Rangoon or Milne Bay/Port Moresby I still hold as far south as Santa Cruz/Ellice/Canton In South Pac. In Cen Pac my forward bases are Marcus/Wake/Marshells. All Southern Resource area and New Guenia (except the 2 mentioned) Oil reserves jump up and down between 4-8k I have fought off 5 seperate attempts to land on Ellice (poor Americal div has been evacated all 5 times, others 1st and 2nd Mar Divs twice each and 37th Inf Div once) But my CV's never able to hit his (LBA hurts them) My CV's get pounded by his but do lots of damage to landing TF and supply TF then they go home to repair and retrain. I have lost 3 CV 4CVL 2CA 3Cl 30 DD(most on escort duty) and 45 subs I have sank 4CV 3 CVE 10BB 1BC 9 CA 7 CL 29 DD and 19 subs plus 60AP. Currently I am training my airgroups in new model aircraft IJNAF (Jacks mostly) IJAAF (Tony and Tojo mostly) but there are 3 groups in OscarII in China 4 Nick and 4 OscarII in CBI they hold there own pretty well I just seen Thunderbolts flying in China. I can't keep airgroups in my forward southern bases the B-24's slaughter them in mass. Ellice gets air cover from Tarawa. Whenever recon spots a juicey TF I transfer airgroups to Canton or Ellice and then remove them when nothing to hit. The Tojo's at Balikpapan do pretty good everyturn versus unescorted B-24's coming out of Darwin. I don't see how the AI is going to force a surrender from where it is now at in less then 24 months.
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
Hi Mogami,
You have made a good showing, except for the CV's lost, its what I have to look forward to? (VBG) I plumb forgot about the Command points limit, (it smacked me across the forehead when you said it)Explains it beautifully!
I get very frustrated with the CBI in this game, they send an neverending supply to China while I'm bombing the airfields to rubble (I'm not gonna do a Hitler!). Bataan is a major pain- wasting troops and air units babysitting it. (I WILL take Bataan 1st next game-see what they do then... Major Tom has made this pretty realistic so far (fall 42) so I just gotta keep plugging away, see what happens.
You ought to post on Utley's thread-I'd be interested to read what happens...
You have made a good showing, except for the CV's lost, its what I have to look forward to? (VBG) I plumb forgot about the Command points limit, (it smacked me across the forehead when you said it)Explains it beautifully!
I get very frustrated with the CBI in this game, they send an neverending supply to China while I'm bombing the airfields to rubble (I'm not gonna do a Hitler!). Bataan is a major pain- wasting troops and air units babysitting it. (I WILL take Bataan 1st next game-see what they do then... Major Tom has made this pretty realistic so far (fall 42) so I just gotta keep plugging away, see what happens.
You ought to post on Utley's thread-I'd be interested to read what happens...
Hi, I had no problems with Singapore or Bataan (Hong Kong was a different story). 25th Army 'borrowed' all but 2 divisions of 15th Army for Malaya, then they were returned. Since Rangoon was terminus of offensive their was no need at the time. Now 15th Army numbers 6 divisions 1 Bde. 25th Army 4 Divisions and 4 Bde. Lt Gen Homma was replaced as commander of 14th Army on turn one. He saw service as a field commander during the battle for PI (to get his land combat rating up) There after when 10th Area Army took over occupation of PI 14th Army was given the Islands from Guadualcanal to Ellice and Homma was commanding on Ellice (to control the airgroups) Maj Gen Horii took over after the first allied landing attempts. Lt Gen Homma currently with 7 air and 7 land combat ratings commands the 35th Army (Tarawa Makin area) since the air support for Ellice comes from here. The other bases are too close to the allied bases and airgroups suffer greatly while stationed there.
I am trying to figure out how to get airgroups on Ellice to attack Fiji's port. There are at least 3 burning CV's there. I accept the large loss envolved with staying on Ellice but what happens is fighters clear out allies over Fiji and bombers ignore orders to bomb port or TF and hit depots or airfields instead. If I set them to NI they do not bomb at all and are sitting ducks for B-24's. (40-50 Betty's at a pop for nothing is more then I can afford) Any Ideas?
[ January 28, 2002: Message edited by: Mogami ]</p>
I am trying to figure out how to get airgroups on Ellice to attack Fiji's port. There are at least 3 burning CV's there. I accept the large loss envolved with staying on Ellice but what happens is fighters clear out allies over Fiji and bombers ignore orders to bomb port or TF and hit depots or airfields instead. If I set them to NI they do not bomb at all and are sitting ducks for B-24's. (40-50 Betty's at a pop for nothing is more then I can afford) Any Ideas?
[ January 28, 2002: Message edited by: Mogami ]</p>
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
-
Blackhorse
- Posts: 1415
- Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: Eastern US
Suggestions for Allied dispositions in Burma for v2.4. These changes are historically accurate, and should restore the "pop" to the Japanese drive in Burma, without weakening India's defenses.Originally posted by Major Tom:
Yeah, who needs the Brits anyway <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Actually, the reason China is cut out is that Pac War cannot model it, but it CAN model Burma-India fairly well. It is just a matter of coming to a balance between too strong and too weak Indian Divisions, so that Japan can take Burma easily, but not roll over India as easily, and not to have the British back in Malaya by late 1942.
1. Eliminate the 44/17 (turn 2) and 45/17 (turn 2) reinforcements.
2. Eliminate the 63/25 (turn 6) reinforcement.
3. Reduce the entrenchment level of the 16/17 bde at Moulemein to "0".
4. Reduce the number of starting squads in the 17th Indian Division to 60.
5. Remove the 7th Armoured Brigade from "at start" forces: it arrives instead in Columbo or Madras as a turn 10 reinforcement.
6. Increase the experience of the Chinese 5th Army from 20 to 40.
Justification:
1,3 & 4. British divisions normally have three brigades. When the Japanese began to attack Burma, the 17th Division HQ (in Rangoon) commanded only one brigade -- the 16th. This brigade was based in Mandalay and reached Moulemein after the war began. (The division's other two brigades had been detached and sent to Malaysia. The 44th and 45th brigades, depicted as reinforcements in v2.3, did not fight in Burma).
Two more brigades were shipped from India to the 17th Division to bring it up to full strength: the 46th brigade, which reached Rangoon on January 1, 1942 (turn 4) and the 48th brigade, which arrived on February 2 (turn 9). The arrival of these reinforcements can best be simulated by giving the 17th Division a starting strength of 60 squads, which will "grow" to 240 squads over 9 turns.
2. The 63rd brigade was detached from the 23rd Indian Division and arrived at the docks of Rangoon on March 1, (turn 12) to be attached to the 17th Division. Since the 23rd Division is already in the game, and will be at full-strength before March 1, the Allied player already has the ability to "split" the division and send a brigade to Burma whenever transports are available.
5. The 7th Armoured Brigade sailed directly from North Africa to Rangoon, rolling off the ships on February 21 (turn 11), and going directly into action that same day! Since Rangoon may be lost to the Japanese by turn 11, having the brigade arrive in Columbo or Madras on turn 10 seems the best option.
6. The Chinese 5th Army was hampered by a tug-of-war between the aggressive Joe Stilwell, who nominally commanded Chinese forces, and 5th Army commander Tu Yu-Ming, who did not want to challenge the Japanese. Two of Tu's four Chinese divisions performed creditably, however, -- especially Sun Li-jen's 38th Division -- launching local counterattacks with some success while the 17th Indian and 1st Burmese divisions, by comparison, simply fell apart.
NOTE1: The 7th Armoured Brigade was not in the Pacific Theatre for long. After covering the retreat of British forces from Burma, the brigade scuttled its tanks -- sinking them in a river -- and marched to India on foot. Once the brigade was re-equipped in September it was sent back to the Middle East. In Pacwar ships "upgrade" their flak during the war. To avoid having this powerful brigade hanging around permanently is it possible to have the 7th "upgrade" or morph into the 254th Indian Tank Brigade (with lower experience) in September?
NOTE2: After the war began, the two major British Headquarters were the Far Eastern Command, in Singapore, and India GHQ. SEAC, which wags said stood for "Save England's Asian Colonies" was not established until 1943. If v2.4 eliminates the Chinese theatre, and KMT HQs, it would make sense to use it for an India GHQ with many of the same restrictions. The British had many forces in India -- including an entire armoured division -- that could defend against an attack, but would not be released for campaigns in other theatres as they had to be kept in-country to overawe the locals.
WitP-AE -- US LCU & AI Stuff
Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!
Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!
-
Jeff Norton
- Posts: 506
- Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: MD, USA (You're not cleared for specifics...)
- Contact:
Blackhorse, a lot of good ideas...
1. & 2. The removal of the split brigades. I decided for 2.4 to have only split units that appear at the start of the OBC file to be included. Let the AI or player create any others.
3. The 16/17th Brigade should have a weaker entrenchment. This will make it a little more difficult for the British.
4. I guess the 17th Division could be weakened, since it did sent its brigades out to be slaughtered...
5. The problem with this is that it will require A LOT of transport to move, and all British units start at Columbo. I could change it to an Indian unit, or leave it out totally. This is what is difficult about having units that served only for a while. Unformtuately it cannot morph.
6. This sounds good.
NOTE 2: Actually, you would not believe it, but I used Nationalist China to create the 10th Army, located in a Base I created called "to Middle East". I noticed that after the 2.1 patch when San Francisco no longer had ships going to Calcutta during routine convoy, that the AI removed all MCS from Calcutta over tine, effectively cutting off all supplies to China, Burma, India. This was one of the reasons why taking it was so easy. What I did was to take the US West Coast (now 4th Army) base Eastern U.S. and moved it over to India as the to Middle East base. Why? Eastern U.S. gets supply every turn, so even if Calcutta does stop making supply, there will be enough floating around the continent to keep at least a defence going. So far I added (for the 10th Army) the following units.
2nd Indian Division
6th Indian Division
8th Indian Division
31st Indian Armoured Division
They all served in the Middle East, so if the Japanese get this far, it would be like they were attacking the Middle East, where 4 strong Indian Divisions are located. The British player COULD move these units out of the Middle East base, but, they would not perform very well in battle other than on defence.
The problem with creating an Indian GHQ is that there were not many units attached to it. The 32nd Armoured Division was, but that was then merged with the 43rd Armoured Division to the 44th, which I have just included in the game as the 44th Airborne Division (which was to be used on the assault on Malaya). Otherwize, I could not find any large units beyond Batallions that garrisoned these new bases I created:
New Delhi
Bombay
Madras
However, if anyone has any information regarding larger units used exclusively for guarding India from 1941-1945, either Division or Brigade sized, let me know so that maybe an Indian GHQ could be created.
Also, for making the game even harder for an Allied Player, the 20th and 26th Indian Divisions will not appear until April 1942, when they were actually raised.
This leaves the Indian HUMAN player with only the following Units in December 1941
British Formations
29th Amphibious Brigade
7th Armoured Brigade (to start off at to Middle East base)
Indian Formations
17th Indian Division
23rd Indian Division
34th Indian Division (Ceylon's Garrison Division)
39th Indian Division (1st Burma Division)
50th Parachute Brigade (at New Delhi)
These were the only raised formations in the area at December 1942. So a Human Allied Player could not necessarily throw away Ships, LCU's and air groups in Malaya or the East Indies because they are needed to guard the Indian Ocean.
However, for the OBC that the Allies are played by the AI the defence of India will start off in 1941 with more divisions placed around since we would not want the human player to cheaply land on bases that they know are not defended against an opponent who would never defend them.
1. & 2. The removal of the split brigades. I decided for 2.4 to have only split units that appear at the start of the OBC file to be included. Let the AI or player create any others.
3. The 16/17th Brigade should have a weaker entrenchment. This will make it a little more difficult for the British.
4. I guess the 17th Division could be weakened, since it did sent its brigades out to be slaughtered...
5. The problem with this is that it will require A LOT of transport to move, and all British units start at Columbo. I could change it to an Indian unit, or leave it out totally. This is what is difficult about having units that served only for a while. Unformtuately it cannot morph.
6. This sounds good.
NOTE 2: Actually, you would not believe it, but I used Nationalist China to create the 10th Army, located in a Base I created called "to Middle East". I noticed that after the 2.1 patch when San Francisco no longer had ships going to Calcutta during routine convoy, that the AI removed all MCS from Calcutta over tine, effectively cutting off all supplies to China, Burma, India. This was one of the reasons why taking it was so easy. What I did was to take the US West Coast (now 4th Army) base Eastern U.S. and moved it over to India as the to Middle East base. Why? Eastern U.S. gets supply every turn, so even if Calcutta does stop making supply, there will be enough floating around the continent to keep at least a defence going. So far I added (for the 10th Army) the following units.
2nd Indian Division
6th Indian Division
8th Indian Division
31st Indian Armoured Division
They all served in the Middle East, so if the Japanese get this far, it would be like they were attacking the Middle East, where 4 strong Indian Divisions are located. The British player COULD move these units out of the Middle East base, but, they would not perform very well in battle other than on defence.
The problem with creating an Indian GHQ is that there were not many units attached to it. The 32nd Armoured Division was, but that was then merged with the 43rd Armoured Division to the 44th, which I have just included in the game as the 44th Airborne Division (which was to be used on the assault on Malaya). Otherwize, I could not find any large units beyond Batallions that garrisoned these new bases I created:
New Delhi
Bombay
Madras
However, if anyone has any information regarding larger units used exclusively for guarding India from 1941-1945, either Division or Brigade sized, let me know so that maybe an Indian GHQ could be created.
Also, for making the game even harder for an Allied Player, the 20th and 26th Indian Divisions will not appear until April 1942, when they were actually raised.
This leaves the Indian HUMAN player with only the following Units in December 1941
British Formations
29th Amphibious Brigade
7th Armoured Brigade (to start off at to Middle East base)
Indian Formations
17th Indian Division
23rd Indian Division
34th Indian Division (Ceylon's Garrison Division)
39th Indian Division (1st Burma Division)
50th Parachute Brigade (at New Delhi)
These were the only raised formations in the area at December 1942. So a Human Allied Player could not necessarily throw away Ships, LCU's and air groups in Malaya or the East Indies because they are needed to guard the Indian Ocean.
However, for the OBC that the Allies are played by the AI the defence of India will start off in 1941 with more divisions placed around since we would not want the human player to cheaply land on bases that they know are not defended against an opponent who would never defend them.
We can expect it when it is done <img src="smile.gif" border="0">Originally posted by Jeff Norton:
When can we expect the 2.3 to 2.4 update?
Seriously though, since I have changed most aspects of the game to where research has been exhausted, and changes will mainly occur in base location, unit disposition and other relatively minor areas, it will not be as long as the gap between 2.2 and 2.3. I can't really say, since I am not entirely sure of what limits I will set for the changes yet.
I am also thinking about making India-Burma more appealing to the Japanese to invade. Why should they invade in 2.1-2.3? To get rid of the British thorn in your back was the only reason. Invading India got you to free up massive numbers of troops and aircraft (since you did not have to garrison this area!), but this also required the USE of a lot of troops, ships and aircraft!
What can be done? Add more resources to Burma-India bases, so if captured they will increase the Japanese VP level in regards to control of bases. Just like Singapore suddenly gained 90 Resources, who is to say that Burma should not have more resources? What about India? The prime reason Britain took it was for resources and manpower. It would add another dimension, as possibly winning through taking India? Or at least trying to...
What can be done? Add more resources to Burma-India bases, so if captured they will increase the Japanese VP level in regards to control of bases. Just like Singapore suddenly gained 90 Resources, who is to say that Burma should not have more resources? What about India? The prime reason Britain took it was for resources and manpower. It would add another dimension, as possibly winning through taking India? Or at least trying to...
Sorry Mogami,
I dont have any ideas -this has long whupped me too. something in the coding makes values screwy so bombers will bypass juicy targets to bomb seemingly empty space or useless MCS when a BB is sitting next to them in port...
VBG I'm not bitching at you Major Tom! I love what ya done so far!
I dont have any ideas -this has long whupped me too. something in the coding makes values screwy so bombers will bypass juicy targets to bomb seemingly empty space or useless MCS when a BB is sitting next to them in port...
VBG I'm not bitching at you Major Tom! I love what ya done so far!
Hi, the OB for India is only part of the problem.
I believe India herself raised around 20 divisions. I believe 3 or 4 saw service in North Africa and italy while the rest stayed in India or fought in the CBI. One of my major concerns is the lack of any weather effects in Pac War. The allies need more units to increase the difficulty simply because the Japanese players do not have to contend with the weather. If you look at the dates for battles here you will notice they all occur in non monsoon periods with a total halt during the monsoons. House rules work in 2 human games (where you can agree or not in advance) but against a allied AI The British OB has to be strengthend even against historical considerations or the area is unreasonably easy to conquer (and really it would be silly for the human not to do it in games where victory was his sole concern) I tend not to do things in solo games if I feel they are not very realistic (even when I know they would work in the game) I don't try to bomb the US West coast (or land there or Austraila) But against a human you always have to guard against his trying. The AI just ignores these possibilities unless Major Tom deploys an unhistorical unit to compensate. The OB's for human versus human should be as historical as possible. OB's for AI's have to be doctored to a degree. However weather in CBI should be addressed in some manner so Japanese players understand that even against no opposition in would be difficult if not impossible to advance during parts of the year. It is not for no reason that after 41 early 42 Japan was unable to mount an offensive there intill 44. (The famous Bangkok to Rangoon railroad did not exist yet) The Rangoon islolation thing helps to a degree. I feel after the RR is completed Japan should have a better supply situation but how to achive in Pac War I do not know.
I believe India herself raised around 20 divisions. I believe 3 or 4 saw service in North Africa and italy while the rest stayed in India or fought in the CBI. One of my major concerns is the lack of any weather effects in Pac War. The allies need more units to increase the difficulty simply because the Japanese players do not have to contend with the weather. If you look at the dates for battles here you will notice they all occur in non monsoon periods with a total halt during the monsoons. House rules work in 2 human games (where you can agree or not in advance) but against a allied AI The British OB has to be strengthend even against historical considerations or the area is unreasonably easy to conquer (and really it would be silly for the human not to do it in games where victory was his sole concern) I tend not to do things in solo games if I feel they are not very realistic (even when I know they would work in the game) I don't try to bomb the US West coast (or land there or Austraila) But against a human you always have to guard against his trying. The AI just ignores these possibilities unless Major Tom deploys an unhistorical unit to compensate. The OB's for human versus human should be as historical as possible. OB's for AI's have to be doctored to a degree. However weather in CBI should be addressed in some manner so Japanese players understand that even against no opposition in would be difficult if not impossible to advance during parts of the year. It is not for no reason that after 41 early 42 Japan was unable to mount an offensive there intill 44. (The famous Bangkok to Rangoon railroad did not exist yet) The Rangoon islolation thing helps to a degree. I feel after the RR is completed Japan should have a better supply situation but how to achive in Pac War I do not know.
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
March 1944, the war plods slowly along. Oil reserve constantly below 1k imobilizing the fleet and slowing airgroup training. Allies land a division on Buna/Gona without first opening the trail over the mountains. Maj Gen Horii transfered to command the 2 divisions there, they wioe out the 1 Allied division on first try. Transports arrive and remove the divisions to bases I can supply. Japan withdraws from aircombat everywhere but China and Rangoon. IJAAF bomber groups slowly reequipping from Helen to Peggy bombers. Only 3 groups still flying OscarII and 2 groups in Nick, rest are Tony/Tojo. My CV airgroups all in 80-90 exp. But except for a surface TF based at Tarawa everything in port Tokyo due to fuel. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
-
Jeff Norton
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Is it correct that, now, there is no path from Port Morsby to Buna???
I may have this wrong, but you can go over the Owen Stanley's to the the otherside, but cannot reach either the point north or the one south except via sea transport.
Is this an intended change??
I may have this wrong, but you can go over the Owen Stanley's to the the otherside, but cannot reach either the point north or the one south except via sea transport.
Is this an intended change??
-Jeff
Veritas Vos Liberabit
"Hate America - love their movies" -Foos Babaganoosh - Anchor - Jihad Tonite
Veritas Vos Liberabit
"Hate America - love their movies" -Foos Babaganoosh - Anchor - Jihad Tonite
Hi, the three connecting bases are Port Moresby to Owen Stanly (now something Trail0 to Buna-Gona.
I had captured the mountains early in war planning to someday cross over. That never happened as the 2 divisions I sent had their experiance eroded away from constant air attack and I just forgot they were at Buna intill this landing reminded me (I then withdrew them back to Lae by transport.) they had survived for nearly a year by eating the stockpile of supplies in the Owen Stanly base.
I have to calm down, the excitement of my war is getting to me. 6 weeks after the Japanese evac Buna-Gona the Allied AI captures it. It is Now the first week of May 1944. I have redeployed all scout and bomber air groups to cover Southern Resource area shipping lanes. First week of this saw 1 allied sub sunk bring the total for war to 20 (56 IJN subs have been sunk and for last 2 years I have used them in front of my bases not near allied bases but allied scouts continue to sink them. (I keep seeing messages about attacks on subs north east of Pearl Harbor even during turns when all IJN subs are in port?)(and total lost does increase subs are set to human control)
Meanwhile I increase the number of DD's pulling convoy escort duty from 40 to 72 leaving only 34 DD's for fleet duty. There remain 40 DE also on escort. The result for first 2 weeks was very discouraging. My merchant loss jumped up from 13 per week to 23. 30 DD and 42 DE have been sunk by subs. 359 MCS and 51 tankers (all to subs)for a total loss of 482 vessels for 20 subs, what does the allies think? that I am made out of merchant ships? The oil reserve hit an all time low towards the end of March (200) it has slowly made it's why back to 1600 now in first week of May. I stopped training of all CV pilots. I stopped all training of airgroups outside Home Islands. and stopped all training of units with over 70 exp in the Home Islands. Place all IJN ships in port. Place all IJN ss I class in port. 4 groups of RO's remain on picket duty from Marcus to south of Tarawa. Allies have commenced bombing of both Saesbo and Port Arthur from bases in China. I transferred fightergroups from Home Island to Port Arthur even though I can not transfer then out here after. (blowing up the supplies there created a vacuum effect of sucking out more supplies from Home Island, there is nothing in Port Arthur that uses supply, dozens of bases else where with LCU and airgroups get ignored but Port Arthur every turn 2k fuel 2k supplies so I have to put airgroups there to try to stop this. Sasebo now has 450 fighters of various training readiness stationed there. I have decided simply to trade space for time. The AI has 76 turns remaining to force a surrender. I plan on doing nothing except train and wait and build inner defense line airbases. Then I will fight a great battle if/when the AI decides to try for a base that would place B-29s in range of Home Islands. 6CV 5 CVL and 3 CVE remain all with airgroups in newest model aircraft and trained over 80 exp (highest are 94) All 12 BB's remain undamaged, 19 of 22 CA I intend on soon retreating from Rangoon to Bangkok (to buy a little training time for those airgroups. The air attacks are steady lowering my LCU exp (only 1 div remains in Rangoon all others already south of Bangkok, NGU garrisoning Mouliman. I would evac all bases south of Truk Tarawa except evac from forward areas would eat to many AP (2k space lost in evac from Buna) 5div 1 bde on PI 2 more on Leyte Java has 2 div 3 bde all atoll have 240sqd in various formations but there are 5 divs and 5 bde south of line mentioned guess the AI gets to kill some Japs if it wants to
So when you decide to play the game as Japan be aware of what is to come, without any combat taking place (except for air battles in China and at Rangoon) with out the allies capturing anything containing oil or resource. My economy is doing very poorly. But on the plus side it has not caused ship or aircraft production any damage. And as far as I can tell all LCU remain with supply. Fuel is the problem. To counter I have placed airgroups on rear (easy to send supply to) bases while manual run convoys of fuel to the bases they will defend. (so they don't use it before it's time)
[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: Mogami ]</p>
I had captured the mountains early in war planning to someday cross over. That never happened as the 2 divisions I sent had their experiance eroded away from constant air attack and I just forgot they were at Buna intill this landing reminded me (I then withdrew them back to Lae by transport.) they had survived for nearly a year by eating the stockpile of supplies in the Owen Stanly base.
I have to calm down, the excitement of my war is getting to me. 6 weeks after the Japanese evac Buna-Gona the Allied AI captures it. It is Now the first week of May 1944. I have redeployed all scout and bomber air groups to cover Southern Resource area shipping lanes. First week of this saw 1 allied sub sunk bring the total for war to 20 (56 IJN subs have been sunk and for last 2 years I have used them in front of my bases not near allied bases but allied scouts continue to sink them. (I keep seeing messages about attacks on subs north east of Pearl Harbor even during turns when all IJN subs are in port?)(and total lost does increase subs are set to human control)
Meanwhile I increase the number of DD's pulling convoy escort duty from 40 to 72 leaving only 34 DD's for fleet duty. There remain 40 DE also on escort. The result for first 2 weeks was very discouraging. My merchant loss jumped up from 13 per week to 23. 30 DD and 42 DE have been sunk by subs. 359 MCS and 51 tankers (all to subs)for a total loss of 482 vessels for 20 subs, what does the allies think? that I am made out of merchant ships? The oil reserve hit an all time low towards the end of March (200) it has slowly made it's why back to 1600 now in first week of May. I stopped training of all CV pilots. I stopped all training of airgroups outside Home Islands. and stopped all training of units with over 70 exp in the Home Islands. Place all IJN ships in port. Place all IJN ss I class in port. 4 groups of RO's remain on picket duty from Marcus to south of Tarawa. Allies have commenced bombing of both Saesbo and Port Arthur from bases in China. I transferred fightergroups from Home Island to Port Arthur even though I can not transfer then out here after. (blowing up the supplies there created a vacuum effect of sucking out more supplies from Home Island, there is nothing in Port Arthur that uses supply, dozens of bases else where with LCU and airgroups get ignored but Port Arthur every turn 2k fuel 2k supplies so I have to put airgroups there to try to stop this. Sasebo now has 450 fighters of various training readiness stationed there. I have decided simply to trade space for time. The AI has 76 turns remaining to force a surrender. I plan on doing nothing except train and wait and build inner defense line airbases. Then I will fight a great battle if/when the AI decides to try for a base that would place B-29s in range of Home Islands. 6CV 5 CVL and 3 CVE remain all with airgroups in newest model aircraft and trained over 80 exp (highest are 94) All 12 BB's remain undamaged, 19 of 22 CA I intend on soon retreating from Rangoon to Bangkok (to buy a little training time for those airgroups. The air attacks are steady lowering my LCU exp (only 1 div remains in Rangoon all others already south of Bangkok, NGU garrisoning Mouliman. I would evac all bases south of Truk Tarawa except evac from forward areas would eat to many AP (2k space lost in evac from Buna) 5div 1 bde on PI 2 more on Leyte Java has 2 div 3 bde all atoll have 240sqd in various formations but there are 5 divs and 5 bde south of line mentioned guess the AI gets to kill some Japs if it wants to
So when you decide to play the game as Japan be aware of what is to come, without any combat taking place (except for air battles in China and at Rangoon) with out the allies capturing anything containing oil or resource. My economy is doing very poorly. But on the plus side it has not caused ship or aircraft production any damage. And as far as I can tell all LCU remain with supply. Fuel is the problem. To counter I have placed airgroups on rear (easy to send supply to) bases while manual run convoys of fuel to the bases they will defend. (so they don't use it before it's time)
[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: Mogami ]</p>
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!