heavy AA guns used against invasions

[castor troy]

Gentlemen

Has anyone experienced how heavy AA performs against invasions? What is with all those 105 mm AA guns the Japanese have? An AA with this calibre and the high fire rate could wreck AKs and APs with no problem, but can they aim at ships?

[FeurerKrieg]

On a related question, how can one tell which guns (if any) in an artillery unit will fire at ships? Do you have to go into the editor or is there an easier way to check?

[castor troy]

I don´t know, that´s the reason I asked this question. I thought someone would have some experience with this.

[AmiralLaurent]

Seems to me from memory that someone posted here that above a certain caliber (3'' or 75mm) guns will fire on ships. So yes 105mm AA are supposed to fire on landings.

[Feinder]

The manual is explicity about BOMBARDMENT (vs. enemy LCUs). A gun must have a certain range, and a anti-soft value of 5. However, from checking the manual, I don't see anything explicity like that for use against ships.

I -do- believe that AA guns fire at ships. We sent a group in the bombard Rabual, and the ships took something like 50+ hits EACH(!). However, there was only marginal damage to the ships. I assumed it was because it was an AAA unit demonstrating a high ROF, and not a CD unit (which would have actually damaged the CLs).

It doesn't say, but I'd bet a Bombardment TF "with escorts to bombard" probably fires at 4000 yds at night. Which would mean that any weapon with a range of 4 - 6 would be (potentially) be able to fire back. With "escorts not bombard", I would guess they fire at 8k to 12k yards, in which you guns would need ranges of 8 - 15 to fire back.

All that being said, there may be something that limits AAA guns from firing back. Surface ships do not use the AAA guns in surface combat, even against PTs. I would think there is probably something in engine, that marks -DP- guns as being able to fire ship to ship, and ship to shore. The same constrain may be for guns explicity marked as AAA guns. Guns marked as AAA guns, -might- not be able to fire at ships due to a constraint of the engine.

However, it is not documented what can fire, so it would be a matter of having to do controlled tests, to see if they're actually firing.

-F-

[castor troy]

Thanks for the info AdmiralLaurent and Feinder
!

[Feinder]

You got me curious about this, so I'll try to run some tests in the next few days. It would be kinda funny to discover that your Heavy AAA units were actually the best CD guns, now wouldn't it...

[;)]
-F-

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

You got me curious about this, so I'll try to run some tests in the next few days. It would be kinda funny to discover that your Heavy AAA units were actually the best CD guns, now wouldn't it...

[;)]
-F-

Yes would be funny indeed. Perhaps then we have something we can use those Jap AAguns.

[Martti]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

All that being said, there may be something that limits AAA guns from firing back. Surface ships do not use the AAA guns in surface combat, even against PTs. I would think there is probably something in engine, that marks -DP- guns as being able to fire ship to ship, and ship to shore. The same constrain may be for guns explicity marked as AAA guns. Guns marked as AAA guns, -might- not be able to fire at ships due to a constraint of the engine.

However, it is not documented what can fire, so it would be a matter of having to do controlled tests, to see if they're actually firing.

-F-

Ships do use AA guns in surface combat. I have had several PT boats sunk by 25mm or 40mm AA guns. However, I do admit that it is very rare, and usually happens only at very short range (2000 yards).

[Feinder]

I stand corrected!

I'll still run the bombardment tests for everybody tho. I'm curious now.

-F-

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

I stand corrected!

I'll still run the bombardment tests for everybody tho. I'm curious now.

-F-

Looking forward to the results sir!

[Feinder]

The results are trickling in.


What I did was...

Nuked everything off the map (I have a "Blank Slate" scenario).
Tweaked Batan Island to have 10,000 supplies (so very ample).
Set the exp of the unit to 99, and the morale to 99 (to insure the if something was going to fire, it would).
Changed the BF there to have 100 Support, and 100 of various weapons and types (but only one at a time). I also changed the TYPE of the unit from ENG, to CD, to AAA, to see if it made any difference (it didn't).

The following DID fire vs. bombardment TFs -
Weapons of type "DP" in the database.
Weapons of type "Naval Gun" in the database.

The following did NOT fire vs. bombardment TFs -
Weapons of type "AA"
Weapons of type "Army Weapon"
Weapons of type "AFV"

Note that the NAME of unit can be misleading:

#409 75mm AA Gun, is a type AA
#410 3" AA Gun, is actually a type DP.
#411 3"/20cwt AA Gun, is type AA

#451 155mm Field Gun, is type Naval Gun.
#434 75mm Field Gun, is a Army Wepon.

I tried several of each type, with varying ranges (some very long), and couldn't get the unit to fire back. I only did about 3 - 4 tests, with each type (so I did 3 different AA guns, 3 different Army weapons, etc). I do want to more tests, with varying ranges, and also vs. "escorts no bombard" (assumed at longer range), and also vs. transport TFs.

I was playing around, and put 100x 21" torpedo launchers, but they didn't fire back. Would have been amusing if they had[:D].

I also found it interesting that :
Devices
83 - 5" rocket
84 - 4.5" rocket
85 - 4.2" mortar
that are used on the LCI class ships (for artillery support), all have anti-soft and anit-armor ratings of ZERO. I'm thinking, this is why they don't seem to work very well. They do have a penetration and effect ratings tho, so it would be interesting to try and put them in a surface combat group... :^)

-F-

[FeurerKrieg]

Great info Feinder. So do you have to go into the editor to find out what 'type' of weapon something is? Or can you use the ingame database?

[Feinder]

I just checked, and it appears that, if you pull up the in-game database (the icons on the top left corner), it lists the weapon types correctly under the "ship info" icon.

-F-

[michaelm75au]

Only DP and Naval Guns fire at Bombardment TFs as you correctly show.
This where the agruments arose in last patch about 155mm Field Gun being a type Naval Gun or Army Gun - one shoots back a Bomardment TFs, the other not.

However, the AA, Army Gun,etc will fire on an invasion TF ("coastal guns firing" stuff) hitting ships and troops, depending on range/effect/etc. [I have not had a chance to test the effectiveness of such weapons, though.]

Michael