should I buy this?

[bluemonday]

ORIGINAL: Mr. Z
What do you mean by "sortable"?

Example: I click on the Economy tab (above the menu). I get "Economy Report for [Country]." I want to sort provinces by Food production. Why can't I just click on the Food icon to sort them ascending/descending? Where is my ability to evaluate the output/manpower/improvements in a summary screen so I can compare all the provinces rather than having to click through them one by one in the Development menu selection? I want to be able to see that (a) Provence is producing 17 food; (b) it has 21 manpower assigned to food; and (c) the Farms level is 4. All in one screen with the other provinces, so I can compare these values across my country to evaluate how to spend my resources.

What do you think might speed it up?

For starters, the ability to type "8" into the selection window for the commodity, rather than having to click the Up-Arrow eight times.

Thanks for soliciting feedback btw. I (and I'm sure a lot of other people as well) appreciate your commitment to improving the game post-release.

[Reg Pither]

ORIGINAL: bluemonday

ORIGINAL: Mr. Z
Specifically regarding the UI, what do you feel is awkward about it? We're trying to get a feel for what "awkward" means in this regard. Thanks!

I hope the original poster responds, but just to throw my opinion in - the whole interface feels like it was designed in 1998. It actually reminds me a lot of Imperialism 2. The sliders in the development window are incredibly clunky. I have to estimate how much to more the slider to add 6 manpower or whatever to a particular area. Not having sortable summary screens is a big omission. And the lack of an Undo feature is really inexplicable. In general, for me the interface is "awkward" because it requires too much clicking from the player. The Trade screen is a great example. How many mouseclicks does it take to find a region, set up a trade, and propose it? A lot.

I'm afraid I have to agree with my old chum bluemonday. [;)]

'Clunky' is definitely the word, in fact, I'm sure I used it in one of my very first posts. It often takes more than one mouse click to actually make a choice, especially in the diplomacy screens. By that I don't mean that you have to make several clicks instead of doing what just one could have done (although this is sometimes true as well), but that the game often doesn't respond to the first click. Trying to set up a trade route can be trial of patience due to the problem with the delay between pressing a button and the game acting on it. Also, on a more tactile level, none of the buttons graphically 'press' when you click on them (one or two 'light up'), and very few have a sound cue - hence the '1998' feel. All the sliders are too inaccurate and really need arrows or even a box to enter the exact number you want. Being forced to allocate funds in steps of 30 (for example) also seems unnecessarily and annoyingly restrictive. No undo or cancel for anything at all in a turn-based game is just plain obtuse. So the clunkiness derives from both the asthetics and the function of much of the interface.

But then, as most grognards are famously indifferent to such niceties, I can see why the interface might take second place to the actual gameplay, which is (luckily) sleep-stealingly good. [:)]

[cato13]

in regards to making trades they really gotta fix the set policy screen so u can leave the AI to trade the items u want it to. it would really cut down on the micro-management

[BossGnome]

well, its not like Matrix releasese finished products too often[:'(]... it was the same with WITP. I only started playing on 1.2, which had already been patched (twice!) but the bugs and lacks of the game were quite horrible even then, but not enough to screw over the gameplay. Now, on WITP 1.6, the game runs very smoothly, and if you say that the development team is as player-responsive as it is (and most matrix games published games do seem to care a lot about the players), I do not see an extreme problem with a somewhat unfinished product.

[Mr. Z]

ORIGINAL: tonedog

in regards to making trades they really gotta fix the set policy screen so u can leave the AI to trade the items u want it to. it would really cut down on the micro-management

I think the Set Policy screen should be working for trades right now...though you need your Trade Expert turned on. Or are you saying it isn't working?

[Barrold]

Regarding trade, I have been curious to see trade routes involving commodities I did not designate for export. I specifically did not want to export food, but when I reviewed existing trade, I was not happy to see my expert had agreed to a bunch of deals that sent large amounts of food to other countries while my population was starving. The next time he looked at me disapprovingly, I flipped him off.

BDH

[von Beanie]

I'm new to this game and have read through the manual. I find CoG less intuitive than WITP (especially since I learned UV first), and thus much more difficult to learn.

For example, I have to hunt down my diplomats each turn to figure out where they are. If you try to click on them in the military screen the game doesn't automatically go to the unit. And as far as I can tell, the military screen doesn't tell you where they are. I'm also having the same problem figuring out where my ships are. Perhaps I'm missing something basic here? Without such an intuitive procedure, perhaps a "next unit" button is needed so that I can scroll through my units on the map.

I also haven't figured out how to make treaties correctly. Sometimes it says a peace treaty is ratified but then I find out that I'm still at war. Does it matter who the first party is to the treaty when you have to fill out the treaty? If the nation proposing the treaty is supposed to be the first (or second) party, why wouldn't the game automatically fill in the slot? These are the sorts of basic questions that keep cropping up.

I think it may be these types of problems that makes the interface a bit "grognardy". I'm trying to hang in there, but the frustration level is rising.

BTW, many of the same sorts of basic interface problems exist with GGWAW, so you are free to choose your poison.

[Hard Sarge]

for treatys, it can be confusing (maybe Ralegh has a guide written or will write one)

but somewhat, you got to read and understand what you are trying to do

France ensureing peace for 2 years with Spain, is not he same as Spain ensureing peace with France

right now, there is not a way with treatys to stop a war other then though surrendering

over all play around with it, it is very helpful at times, you can give away stuff you don't want, or try and get stuff you want, you can make sure your backdoor is protected when you plan on going to war with someone else

if you have money, you can get others to fight your wars for you

of course, remember, the AI is not really easy on you, you want someone to ensure they will not attack you for 2 years, just saying you will not attack them for two years is enough, they gonna want more (which is strange as most are cheap and will do alot of things for a few bucks tossed in)

but still play with it, some work, some don't

I can really write some confusing treaties, that tie up everybody on the board

I think there is a lot more to the Diplo side of the game then most people think

[Gem35]

Some of you folks are missing the point and not seeing the big picture here. This game is NOT Risk or Command and Conquer or any of the other "commercially vanilla" wargames. It's a solid well designed extremely strategic deep wargame that requires alot of attention to detail. It's not going to satisfy the casual gamer who wants to click a button and bam you conquered the world in an hour. The only closest thing you can do is perhaps turn on all your advisers. I look at this genre of games with this analogy.. Commercially vanilla wargames are like corporate owned radio stations, you hear the same song every hour, they have one "tape of songs" and it's flipped over each hour. CoG and WitP are a radio station that never plays the same song more than once a month. [8D]

[Hard Sarge]

Hi Gem
don't get em wrong, they have complaints about the UI, but at times, I wounder how many of them know how to use

I mean, how many people know you can lock a slider in the province screen, or that you can click to a space to move the slider, or you can grap the slider and slide it

the complaints about the Treaty screen, I not so sure, sure, you know what you want to do, why should the AI ?

I mean, you can make a treaty with a nation, or you can make a treaty with 6 nations
you can make the offer for yourself or for them, why do they expect the AI to know what you want to do ?


but, to each there own, I loved WitP when it first came out, I never thought or felt it was unfinished

[ian77]

ORIGINAL: von Beanie


For example, I have to hunt down my diplomats each turn to figure out where they are. If you try to click on them in the military screen the game doesn't automatically go to the unit. And as far as I can tell, the military screen doesn't tell you where they are. I'm also having the same problem figuring out where my ships are. Perhaps I'm missing something basic here? Without such an intuitive procedure, perhaps a "next unit" button is needed so that I can scroll through my units on the map.

I think you will find "+" and "-" buttons will cycle you through your unmoved units.

Ian

[Ralegh]

I think the Set Policy screen should be working for trades right now...though you need your Trade Expert turned on. Or are you saying it isn't working?

I have reported the Set Policy screen bugs on other threads. In 1.1, (a) the Trade Adviser does the wrong things and (b) the upper part of the screen has both the columns mislabelled and some interacting in unexpected ways. Eric thinks most of these issues are fixed in the current beta patch - I haven't tested that bit yet, but I will, and I think he is committed to having it right in next patch.