4th Marines - December 1941

[BruceAZ_MatrixForum]

"The Government of the United States has decided to withdraw the American Marine detachments now maintained ashore in China, at Peiping, Tientsin, and Shanghai. It is reported that the withdrawal will begin shortly."

President Franklin D. Roosevelt Press Conference, 14 November 1941

HELP!

I am looking for any historical records that really identify the make-up and size of the 4th Marines during the finest hour – December 1941 in either Olongapo or Mariveles.

I know the regiment was comprised of two small battalions, made up of approximately 800 Marines and attached naval personnel. During the Battle for Bataan, many of these men were the only combat experienced troops in the Philippines as many had fought guerilla actions in the Caribbean, Central America or the unrest in Shanghai.

If any one knows where I can find a fairly accurate TOE for either the regiment as a whole or any of the composite battalions, such as the 1st Provisional, I would appreciate a heads-up.

I have obtained some records but the data needs to be verified, as some of the equipment is hard to believe since most in the battalions were armed with early 1930’s hardware or they became very successful at “scrounging.” I know that they brought back some of their coast defense guns and one company was even temporarily “mounted” until the horses were slaughtered for food.

Why? Some friends have been pestering me to consider designing a short-campaign based around one of the Marine Corps finest, though desperate, hours – even if many ended up in the Bataan Death March – though sometimes they have been forgotten and overshadowed by more public events in the later years. A good example is Guadalcanal.

If you have any info or web sites, please let me know.

Thanks.

Recon
Semper Fi

[BruceAZ_MatrixForum]

Shameless Bump (I am going crazy!)

Recon
Semper Fi

[KG Erwin]

Bruce, the task organization is listed here: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/I/USMC-I-A-C.html

This does not have a detailed breakdown of force strength, unfortunately. I'll do some more digging.

[BruceAZ_MatrixForum]

Thanks, I have this site.

I have been reading the USMC "Small Wars Manaual" 1940 NAVMC 2890 (PDF File) as a friend told me this was the precursor to the FMF Manual and used by most units assigned outside the USA including China in 1940.

If you come across any other 1940-41 USMC data, holler. Stuff is very hard to find!

Bruce
Semper Fi

[panther_fan]

I believe that the Marines were assigned beach defense on Corregidor. If my memory of reading is not too far off they were assigned to the sector along the 'tail' of Corregidor. I don't think too many survived. That was the site of the main Japanese landing and the shelling must have been incredible.

[Twotribes]

I thought the 4th Marines surrendered on Bataan? While there may have been Marines on Corrigador it wasnt the 4th Marines was it?

[Major Destruction]

I will ask around for you, using your original message.

[Major Destruction]

In response to my requests for info I received this list of possible sources,

Condit, Kenneth W.; Turnbladh, Edwin T.
Hold high the torch; a history of the 4th Marines,
United States. Marine Corps. Historical Branch, G-3
Division, Headquarters, U.S. Marine Corps, 1960.

Santelli, James S.
A brief history of the 4th Marines,
Historical Division, Headquarters, U.S. Marine Corps,
1971.

Peterson, Michael I. and Perlmutt, David.
Charlie Two Shoes and the marines of Love Company.
Naval Institute Press, 1998. ISBN: 1557506728.

might be some stuff in:
Lewis, Graydon A.
Intercept Station "C": from Olongapo through the
evacuation of Corregidor, 1929-1942.
Naval Cryptologic Veterans Association, 1983.

Horie, Yoshitaka. and Jones, Edgar L.
Japanese defense plan for Iwo Jima.
The Brass Hat, 1985.

Gordon Rottman replied with this:
I only have what in my books, Stu. The sources are far from solid. One said it was complied from what officers recall after they were liberated in 1945. I've seen the regiment's monthly Muster Rosters, but its just lists of names without breakdown by company in most cases once all sorts of personnel from different organizations were assigned. The many companies were in constant flux and no unit rosters survived.

It certainly doesn't appear that much information will be 'out there'. I hope you can find some useful stuff in the books quoted above. Hold High the Torch might be your best bet, initially.

Let us know what you find, eh?