Russian Winter notification

[toddtreadway]

I think it would be useful to have a notification at the beginning of each player turn that the Russian Winter is taking place that turn. Similar to the notifications that the production multipliers are going up.

[von_Schmidt]

Ditto.

[JanSorensen]

Thats a good idea - not least because its bugged and does not follow the rules (though that should obviously be fixed)

[aletoledo]

Thats a good idea - not least because its bugged and does not follow the rules (though that should obviously be fixed)

I assume you mean that they get more than one winter bonus season?

I know they get winter'41 and winter'42 bonuses, but I don't know about past that.

[JanSorensen]

The bug is when the Germans attack during a winter turn. Then the rules very clearly state that the bonus should be delayed till the next winter turn but it takes effect right during the invasion turn. To my knowledge the bonus is not given twice - have you experienced that?

[toddtreadway]

I guess this might fall into the game transparency category.

It is my opinion that if you can give information to the player without detracting from the game experience, you should probably give it. Or at least have a game option for verbose/nonverbose (or something like that).

Another example would be in the combat summary screen. Instead of simply having, for example, 6 base dice + 1 or base defense 24 - 4 maybe there should be a more in-depth explanation.

[JanSorensen]

The ability to see the break down of the modifiers would be absolutely superb. I think its been suggested before too and the Devs stated it was on their wish list too.

[TomFoolery]

Haven't tried it yet, but I anticipated attacking in the spring. Pushing the offensive in summer & fall then playing purely defensively during the 1st winter season. Would that help cut losses?

[von_Schmidt]

ORIGINAL: TomFoolery

Haven't tried it yet, but I anticipated attacking in the spring. Pushing the offensive in summer & fall then playing purely defensively during the 1st winter season. Would that help cut losses?

Yep. In the 'Russian winter' turn, either retreat your German troops or consolidate into insurmountable stacks.
Seems to work for me.

[aletoledo]

The bug is when the Germans attack during a winter turn. Then the rules very clearly state that the bonus should be delayed till the next winter turn but it takes effect right during the invasion turn. To my knowledge the bonus is not given twice - have you experienced that?

actually I just looked at the rules and I guess what I saw wasn't an error. I just didn't realize that any defending unit in a cold region during winter gets a +1 modifier.

I think the russian bonus applying during the same turn as the initial attack is fair. it may not be the letter of the rules, but it fits the spirit of the rule. its meant to model the ill preparation of the german army for the first winter. it wouldn't be very logical for them to do well the first winter, then do poorly the second winter and then back to normal again the third winter. its supposed to be the first encounter with the severe winter that catches them unprepared.

[aletoledo]

funny thing is, the rules clearly state that it can't be the same turn!

I still think its more logical "the first encounter", but I guess it also represent an early spring offensive when the germans launch an attack in winter and thus miss the brunt of the winter. then the russians get a real boast in having the bonus when they've concentrated their forces.

[toddtreadway]

So if the Germans initially attack Russia in Winter of '41 the Soviet Winter effects take place during that entire Winter '41 turn but not the Winter '42 turn?

[toddtreadway]

I also think (maybe for the next incarnation of this game) that a winter preparation technology might be a fun concept. Then you could apply the winter effects to everyone equally unless they have paid for the research. There could even be varying levels and effects, and likely the Soviets could start off at a higher level.

[JanSorensen]

I posted about the bugs with the Russian bonus a while ago: tm.asp?m=894737

[Lebatron]

I remembered that a previous patch had cleared this up in the readme. From patch 1.016

7.Bug Fix - When Germans invade Russia in winter, the first winter rules are in affect on the turn of invasion. They will no longer take affect until the following winter turn.

[JanSorensen]

That bug fix isnt mentioned in the official errata thread though - tm.asp?m=848325

Further, its semantically nonsense unless my English is worse than I think. The first part says it will take effect right away - while the second part says it will take effect (written affect for some reason) one year later. I actually think its trying to say

"7.Bug Fix - When Germany invades Russia in winter, the first winter rules were wrongly in effect on the turn of invasion. That will no longer be the case and the bonus will instead take effect during the following winter turn as per the written rules"

[toddtreadway]

So what's the verdict? Is the Russian Winter effective in the turn you attack as Germany/Japan if that turn is a winter turn?