Suggested Rule Change

[Mziln]

Incomplete Conquest

Merely conquering a Major Power or Minor Country doesn’t mean it is out of the game. That only happens when it is completely conquered. Until then, it fights on with its remaining units.

Incompletely conquered home countries:

Remove from the game all land and aircraft units that are in the incompletely conquered home country or not on the map.

Remove from the game any naval units in its force pools (except convoy points).

let all other units remain where they are.

If you are using Option 28: Pilots

Roll a die for each of its naval units on the Production Circle, in the Construction Pool, or in the Repair Pool on a:

‘1’ or ‘2’ it becomes controlled by any Major Power the controlling Major Power of the incompletely conquered home country chooses (including itself).

‘3’ through ‘5’ it is destroyed.

‘6’ or higher it becomes controlled by any Major Power the conquering Major Power chooses.

All units from the incompletely conquered home country:

Are moved to the nearest friendly hex (or port) within normal range outside the incompletely conquered home country that they may stack in.

Units cannot be moved into a hex (or port) in a home country or Territory controlled by a Major Power they are at war with.

Units that cannot do so are destroyed.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

Incomplete Conquest

Merely conquering a Major Power or Minor Country doesn’t mean it is out of the game. That only happens when it is completely conquered. Until then, it fights on with its remaining units.

Incompletely conquered home countries:

Remove from the game all land and aircraft units that are in the incompletely conquered home country or not on the map.

Remove from the game any naval units in its force pools (except convoy points).

let all other units remain where they are.

If you are using Option 28: Pilots

Roll a die for each of its naval units on the Production Circle, in the Construction Pool, or in the Repair Pool on a:

‘1’ or ‘2’ it becomes controlled by any Major Power the controlling Major Power of the incompletely conquered home country chooses (including itself).

‘3’ through ‘5’ it is destroyed.

‘6’ or higher it becomes controlled by any Major Power the conquering Major Power chooses.

All units from the incompletely conquered home country:

Are moved to the nearest friendly hex (or port) within normal range outside the incompletely conquered home country that they may stack in.

Units cannot be moved into a hex (or port) in a home country or Territory controlled by a Major Power they are at war with.

Units that cannot do so are destroyed.

It is not clear to me what you are changing. It would be helpful to me if you first stated what the problem is you have with the rule that you want to correct. Then give a general statement of how you propose to fix it, and lastly the actual wording of the rule.

As I read the rule (a very badly written rule, I might add):
(1) The incompletely conquered country loses all its land and aircraft units.
(2) Its naval units are up for grabs and either are destroyed or randomly handed out.
(3) Any naval units that are now in enemy controlled ports are treated as if they were overrun and therefore rebase.
(4) Other air and land units on the same side as the incompletely conquered country either remain in place (if they are at war with the conquereor) or teleport to the nearest friendly hex outside the country (if they are not at war with the conqueror).

The teleportation rules are always a strain on the imagination, though in this case it might be envisioned that the conqueror provides transportation to move them out of the country. #3 handles both the newly reassigned naval units and those onthe same side as the incompletely conquered country who are at war with the conqueror. Naval units that are not at war with the conqueror can remain in newly conquered ports - sort of like neutrals.

[Froonp]

As I read the rule (a very badly written rule, I might add):

A personal opinion you share with yourself. I politely beg to difer. [;)]

(1) The incompletely conquered country loses all its land and aircraft units.

Not so. It looses the land & aircraft units that are inside its home country. Units in its controlled minor countries stay on the map.
i.e. : Belgium when conquered keep any units she still have in Belgian Congo.

By the way : Why change this rule ?
I have not understood neither.

[Mziln]

From WiF RaW 7 aug 04 this is an exact quote:

All units from the conquered side in that country are now moved to the nearest friendly hex outside the country that they may stack in, unless they are at war with the conquerer.

What I suggest to replace this is:

All units from the incompletely conquered home country:

Are moved to the nearest friendly hex (or port) within normal range outside the incompletely conquered home country that they may stack in.

Units cannot be moved into a hex (or port) in a home country or Territory controlled by a Major Power they are at war with.

Units that cannot do so are destroyed.

The original segment of the rules is vague, badly written, and in some cases gives units abilities they normaly do not have.

According to the original rule theoreticaly a Danish crusier with a movement of 1 (and there was one in the beta) could rebase to Brittian if Denmark was incompletely conqured. (I was told in the beta there was a scuttle option planned for this situation.)

This would also stop the Commonwealth from using transports to pick up the Dutch army in the Netherlands move to them to sea and abandon their home country to incomplete conquest.

I include this to show this is a very real possiability: USA entry action 43. CW reinforces the Netherlands East Indies ~ The Netherlands East Indies is a minor country consisting of all the 1939 NEI-controlled hexes in the Bay of Bengal, Bismark Sea, East Indian Ocean, South China Sea and Timor Sea. Its capital is Batavia.

I also belive my suggested version is more in line with the rules for incomplete and complete conquest.

Should "friendly hex" be changed to "controlled hex"?

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

From WiF RaW 7 aug 04 this is an exact quote:

All units from the conquered side in that country are now moved to the nearest friendly hex outside the country that they may stack in, unless they are at war with the conquerer.

The original segment of the rules is vague, badly written, and in some cases gives units abilities they normaly do not have.

Hummm..... The segment of the rule you just quoted is far from vague.
It is an abstract form the rule, and it is the one who deals about units on the side of the conquered country, but not at war with the conqueror.

According to the original rule theoreticaly a Danish crusier with a movement of 1 (and there was one in the beta) could rebase to Brittian if Denmark was incompletely conqured. (I was told in the beta there was a scuttle option planned for this situation.)

A Danish cruiser is not covered by the sentence you write.
It is not from a country on the Danish side not at war with the Germans.
It is not teleported.
It must return to base to another friendly port, within double range.

This would also stop the Commonwealth from using transports to pick up the Dutch army in the Netherlands move to them to sea and abandon their home country to incomplete conquest.

The Dutch army is not covered by the sentence you write.
It is not from a country on the Dutch side not at war with the Germans.
Moreover, the Dutch Army is normaly dead when it comes to the CW to play.
And anyway, if it wasn't dead, it is perfectly legal for a CW TRS to transport it back to Britain where it will survive destruction and fight later on.

Incomplete Conquest is a complicated matter (Complete conquest, Vichy are others), and the rule is written in sequential order. You must read it and do what it says, sequentialy, and when you reach the end of the rule reading, you've done all what was to do when a country is incompletely conquered. Such a complicated procedure cannot be without a long and extensive rule, who must try to cover all cases possible.

The case of units from the side of the conquered country, but not at war with the conquerer, happens very very very rarely, and was not in the original RAW of WiF FE. In fact, it covers what was called the "Peacekeepers" problem. It must be included in the incomplete conquest rule. The rule as you rewrote it does not mean the same and does not cover the same aspect of incomplete conquest.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

From WiF RaW 7 aug 04 this is an exact quote:

All units from the conquered side in that country are now moved to the nearest friendly hex outside the country that they may stack in, unless they are at war with the conquerer.

What I suggest to replace this is:

All units from the incompletely conquered home country:

Are moved to the nearest friendly hex (or port) within normal range outside the incompletely conquered home country that they may stack in.

Units cannot be moved into a hex (or port) in a home country or Territory controlled by a Major Power they are at war with.

Units that cannot do so are destroyed.

The original segment of the rules is vague, badly written, and in some cases gives units abilities they normaly do not have.

According to the original rule theoreticaly a Danish crusier with a movement of 1 (and there was one in the beta) could rebase to Brittian if Denmark was incompletely conqured. (I was told in the beta there was a scuttle option planned for this situation.)

This would also stop the Commonwealth from using transports to pick up the Dutch army in the Netherlands move to them to sea and abandon their home country to incomplete conquest.

I include this to show this is a very real possiability: USA entry action 43. CW reinforces the Netherlands East Indies ~ The Netherlands East Indies is a minor country consisting of all the 1939 NEI-controlled hexes in the Bay of Bengal, Bismark Sea, East Indian Ocean, South China Sea and Timor Sea. Its capital is Batavia.

I also belive my suggested version is more in line with the rules for incomplete and complete conquest.

Should "friendly hex" be changed to "controlled hex"?

I believe the confusion with this rule has to do with what its last phrase ("unless they are at war with the conquerer") is modifying. Patrice seems untroubled by this, but I find it hard to read even after the tenth time. Apparently the phrase modifes the first noun in the sentence: "All units".

This interpretation is consistent with Patrice's reading of the rule. What that means is what I was saying, this entire sentence does not apply to units who are (1) on the same side as the incompletely conquered country and (2) at war with the conqueror. Units meeting those qualifications just stay where they are.

It does apply to units who are (1) on the same side as the incompletely conquered country and (2) not at war with the conqueror.

[Mziln]

I believe the confusion with this rule has to do with what its last phrase ("unless they are at war with the conquerer") is modifying. Patrice seems untroubled by this, but I find it hard to read even after the tenth time. Apparently the phrase modifes the first noun in the sentence: "All units".

This interpretation is consistent with Patrice's reading of the rule. What that means is what I was saying, this entire sentence does not apply to units who are (1) on the same side as the incompletely conquered country and (2) at war with the conqueror. Units meeting those qualifications just stay where they are.

It does apply to units who are (1) on the same side as the incompletely conquered country and (2) not at war with the conqueror.

So your saying:

We are to ingnore the fact that "All units from the conquered side" would include naval units in the incompletely home conquered country. Giving the conquror a free shot at overrunning them.

Remember durring the End of Turn Stage ~ Peace step ~ Conquest: all land and air units in the incompletely conquered home country have been removed.

If a home country is incompletely conqured.

Non-home country friendly land, air, or naval units not at war with the conqueror (whatever the weather, face down or face up, surrounded or not, in range or not, will move through units they are at war with if necessary) and show up at the nearest hex they can stack in (even if it would require naval units that don't exist).

These units would be able to enter countries without permission of the controlling Major Power and even change control of the hexs in these countries.

You could even argue that naval units could avoid naval interception since they are "moved to a friendly hex". After all look at the rules land and air units get to violate.

All this with out mention of Multiple States of War?

Then this rule violates just about every movement rule except stacking.


Here is a example of Multiple States of War with Incomplete Conquest:

The USA has not entered the war. Japan has conqured China. Germany has declaired war on the USSR. The Commonwealth is at war with Japan and has flown bombers in Vladivostok against Korean factorys.

The USSR is incompletely conqured and the Commonwealth bombers now are moved to India.

[doctormm]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

I believe the confusion with this rule has to do with what its last phrase ("unless they are at war with the conquerer") is modifying. Patrice seems untroubled by this, but I find it hard to read even after the tenth time. Apparently the phrase modifes the first noun in the sentence: "All units".

This interpretation is consistent with Patrice's reading of the rule. What that means is what I was saying, this entire sentence does not apply to units who are (1) on the same side as the incompletely conquered country and (2) at war with the conqueror. Units meeting those qualifications just stay where they are.

It does apply to units who are (1) on the same side as the incompletely conquered country and (2) not at war with the conqueror.

So your saying:

We are to ingnore the fact that "All units from the conquered side" would include naval units in the incompletely home conquered country. Giving the conquror a free shot at overrunning them.

Remember durring the End of Turn Stage ~ Peace step ~ Conquest: all land and air units in the incompletely conquered home country have been removed.

If a home country is incompletely conqured.

Non-home country friendly land, air, or naval units not at war with the conqueror (whatever the weather, face down or face up, surrounded or not, in range or not, will move through units they are at war with if necessary) and show up at the nearest hex they can stack in (even if it would require naval units that don't exist).

These units would be able to enter countries without permission of the controlling Major Power and even change control of the hexs in these countries.

You could even argue that naval units could avoid naval interception since they are "moved to a friendly hex". After all look at the rules land and air units get to violate.

All this with out mention of Multiple States of War?

Then this rule violates just about every movement rule except stacking.


Here is a example of Multiple States of War with Incomplete Conquest:

The USA has not entered the war. Japan has conqured China. Germany has declaired war on the USSR. The Commonwealth is at war with Japan and has flown bombers in Vladivostok against Korean factorys.

The USSR is incompletely conqured and the Commonwealth bombers now are moved to India.

Steve -

Please don't consider changing a rule just because someone repeatedly complains about their inability to comprehend the rules.

As an example, Mziln repeatedly says that the removal of troops to the nearest hex where they can stack allows (regardless of whether the owning player wants them or not), disregarding the rules about what hexes you may enter (which specifically state that you can't enter friendly countries without their owner's permission).

Regarding his last example, how did the CW units get to Vlad? (though it doesn't really matter) How did the USSR manage to get counquered (even incompletely) without Vlad falling? Who conquered the USSR? Germany? The CW units don't "teleport" to India, they are forced to rebase. If they can reach (over enemy territory), what's the problem? (They'll be face down, btw.)

Etc.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Mzlin,

In reading this rule I separate the countries involved into 4 groups:
(1) The conqueror,
(2) The incompletely conquered,
(3) Allies of the conquered who are at war with the conqueror, and
(4) Allies of the conquered who are not at war with the conqueror.

The first and third groups stay put and continue fighting.

The second group has their army and airforce wiped out, unless they are out of the country, in which case they continue fighting. The naval units of the second group that are not in a home port, continue fighting. The naval units that are in a home port are up for grabs - let's call them the Random Naval Units (RNU). An RNU that goes to the conqueror, stays put. An RNU that goes to the third group is forced to immediately rebase, with all the normal rebase rules in effect.

All units of the fourth group teleport to the nearest friendly hex/port. These units are essentially neutrals who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and are now being told to leave by the conqueror. If you like, you can think of the conqueror providing them with all necessary logistics and even safe passage out of the country through what would otherwise be enemy lines. Remember, we are dealing with 2 month turns here. My use of the word teleportation is intended to convey how the player moves the units, not the elapsed simulated time that would be required.

I don't think this rule needs to be changed. It could do with a serious rewording. Perhaps what I just wrote above is sufficient?

[Mziln]

Original: doctormm

Regarding his last example, how did the CW units get to Vlad? (though it doesn't really matter) How did the USSR manage to get counquered (even incompletely) without Vlad falling? Who conquered the USSR? Germany? The CW units don't "teleport" to India, they are forced to rebase. If they can reach (over enemy territory), what's the problem? (They'll be face down, btw.)

I noted this would be a case of rule "9.9 Multiple States of War" which would require the USSR to have an aligned Minor Country in this case Mongolia (see rule: 19.8 Allied minor countries).

I used Vladivostok as an easy to reference geographical location rather than map cordinates to prove the point that distance would not matter.

The air units do not rebase they are "moved to the nearest friendly hex" (which would be in Mongolia).

If they started face down they would remain face down after the move.

If they started face up they would remain face up after the move.

Please read the previous post where I show the exact quote from WiF RaW 7 aug 04.


Shannon V. OKeets

Although I would rather have this fit within the other rules on movement. It would also simplify program coding if this rule fit within the movement rules.

This is why I suggested the change in the first place.

As I posted before "The original segment of the rules is vague, badly written, and in some cases gives units abilities they normaly do not have".

I look forward to your clarification when you release the Matrix version.

You will be comming out with a version of the rules for the MWiF won't you? Which buttons to push, hot keys, and etc.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Mziln
Shannon V. OKeets

Although I would rather have this fit within the other rules on movement. It would also simplify program coding if this rule fit within the movement rules.

This is why I suggested the change in the first place.

As I posted before "The original segment of the rules is vague, badly written, and in some cases gives units abilities they normaly do not have".

I look forward to your clarification when you release the Matrix version.

You will be comming out with a version of the rules for the MWiF won't you? Which buttons to push, hot keys, and etc.

Rewrite the rules? On no, not me! I will be implementing them in the code, which means they will be rigorously and rigidly defined and continuously enforced. I have no intention of trying to translate the resulting code into English for various rules lawyers to bitch and moan about when they start losing a game. Instead, I will just blissfully refer them to RAW 7.0 and let them struggle with that the same way everyone who ever has played the board game has had to struggle.

One of my adages to live by is that "Perfection is an elusive goal." Rendering logic into English clearly quailfies.

[doctormm]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

Original: doctormm

Regarding his last example, how did the CW units get to Vlad? (though it doesn't really matter) How did the USSR manage to get counquered (even incompletely) without Vlad falling? Who conquered the USSR? Germany? The CW units don't "teleport" to India, they are forced to rebase. If they can reach (over enemy territory), what's the problem? (They'll be face down, btw.)

I noted this would be a case of rule "9.9 Multiple States of War" which would require the USSR to have an aligned Minor Country in this case Mongolia (see rule: 19.8 Allied minor countries).

I used Vladivostok as an easy to reference geographical location rather than map cordinates to prove the point that distance would not matter.

The air units do not rebase they are "moved to the nearest friendly hex" (which would be in Mongolia).

If they started face down they would remain face down after the move.

If they started face up they would remain face up after the move.

Please read the previous post where I show the exact quote from WiF RaW 7 aug 04.


Shannon V. OKeets

Although I would rather have this fit within the other rules on movement. It would also simplify program coding if this rule fit within the movement rules.

This is why I suggested the change in the first place.

As I posted before "The original segment of the rules is vague, badly written, and in some cases gives units abilities they normaly do not have".

I look forward to your clarification when you release the Matrix version.

You will be comming out with a version of the rules for the MWiF won't you? Which buttons to push, hot keys, and etc.

Who conquered Russia in your fantasy example above? Odds are it's gonna be Germany, or maybe Italy. The odds of Japan being the conqueror are so vanishingly small as to be impossible to compute even with a computer game.

In how many games have you seen a situation where the CW isn't at war with IT or GE?

If you're going to insist on making up examples to show how badly the rules work, at least come up with one that stands a chance of actually happening in a game of WiF.

[though you are right about the fact that they are no longer overrun - Harry changed that in the latest rules to include hexes occupied solely by air units. But there is still no case to be made for them teleporting to Mongolia, or India, or Belgian Congo.]

[Froonp]

In how many games have you seen a situation where the CW isn't at war with IT or GE?

This can't be in WiF FE.

[c92nichj]

In how many games have you seen a situation where the CW isn't at war with IT or GE?

In my last game Italy and CW was at peace well into Barbarossa, Italy was at war with both Russia and France(which surrendered their home country and fought on from their colonies)

[Mziln]

Who conquered Russia in your fantasy example above? Odds are it's gonna be Germany, or maybe Italy. The odds of Japan being the conqueror are so vanishingly small as to be impossible to compute even with a computer game.

In how many games have you seen a situation where the CW isn't at war with IT or GE?

If you're going to insist on making up examples to show how badly the rules work, at least come up with one that stands a chance of actually happening in a game of WiF.

[though you are right about the fact that they are no longer overrun - Harry changed that in the latest rules to include hexes occupied solely by air units. But there is still no case to be made for them teleporting to Mongolia, or India, or Belgian Congo.]

So you think the rule is crystal clear?

Just so you don't miss it again from WiF RaW 7 aug 04 this is an exact quote:

All units from the conquered side in that country are now moved to the nearest friendly hex outside the country that they may stack in, unless they are at war with the conquerer.

Lets take it slowly just for you:

"All units from the conquered side in that country" this means all units to me. The Commonwealth being at war or not with Germany makes no diference.

"are now moved to the nearest friendly hex outside the country that they may stack in, " to me this means they are moved not rebased to a friendly hex outside the incompletly conqured home country that they may stack in.

"unless they are at war with the conquerer." unelss the HEX is controlled by the conqurer. Friendly is not defined as "on the same side" you could argue that it means "not at war with" (see rule: 9.9 Multiple states of war).

Otherwise it would read:

All units from the conquered side in that country, unless they are at war with the conquerer, are now moved to the nearest friendly hex outside the country that they may stack in.

I see it as a rule simular to (from WiF RaW 7 aug 04 this is an exact quote):

See rule: 17. Vichy France ~ 17.1 Creation ~ 17.3 Units

Non-French units

The owning player moves every non-French controlled land and aircraft unit in a Vichy French hex to the nearest hex they can stack in controlled by its major power, or a co-operating major power, or their aligned minors.

Rebase every non-French controlled naval unit in these territories or minor countries to the nearest friendly controlled port within double the range of the rebasing naval units. If there is no friendly base it can stack in within double the naval unit’s range, it is destroyed instead.

Which is a clear an precise rule and in my opinion how the rule should have been written or referenced to in the first place. Since we are doing practicaly the same the same thing. It should look like this...

Units on the side of the Incompletely Conqured Home Country

In the following a friendly hex or port is defined as: A hex or port controlled by its major power, or a co-operating major power, or their aligned minors.

In the incompletely conqured home country the owning player of non-incompleatly conqured home country units:
.....Move their land and aircraft units to the nearest friendly hex.
.....Rebase their Naval units to the nearest friendly port they can stack in within double the naval unit’s range. If there is no base it can stack in it is destroyed instead.

The Incomplete Conquest rules are for any home country with the exception of Italy (See: 13.7.1 Conquest ~ Italy) who suffer a Complete Conquest if 3 of 4 objectives are met. So Germany would not need to leave Italy if it is conqured.

But it is not up to me to interpret the rule.

Shannon V. OKeets

I did not mean to infer or imply a rewrite. I made sure to leave that word out. But you will have instructions on hot keys and things used by the interface, won't you?

[Froonp]

Wow....
I think you are deeply misled Mzlin, very deeply...
The advantage of being not native english speaker, is that I did not even notice that the rule could be read another way that I read it.
But I can ensure you that you are in error. You are stretching things far too much.

ORIGINAL: Mziln
Lets take it slowly just for you:

"All units from the conquered side in that country" this means all units to me. The Commonwealth being at war or not with Germany makes no diference.

"are now moved to the nearest friendly hex outside the country that they may stack in, " to me this means they are moved not rebased to a friendly hex outside the incompletly conqured home country that they may stack in.

"unless they are at war with the conquerer." unelss the HEX is controlled by the conqurer. Friendly is not defined as "on the same side" you could argue that it means "not at war with" (see rule: 9.9 Multiple states of war).

So you are arguying that the "they" refers to the hexes ??????
An hex is not "at war" with anyone, if you were right, it would be written "controlled by the enemy".
Please.... come on....

The Incomplete Conquest rules are for any home country with the exception of Italy (See: 13.7.1 Conquest ~ Italy) who suffer a Complete Conquest if 3 of 4 objectives are met. So Germany would not need to leave Italy if it is conqured.

The incomplete conquest is for every country, Italy too.
For Italy, only the conditions of conquest are different. For everyone it is : Have all the factories & the capital. For Italy it is different, but when the condition is achieved, the result can be either a complete or an incomplete conquest.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

I did not mean to infer or imply a rewrite. I made sure to leave that word out. But you will have instructions on hot keys and things used by the interface, won't you?

One of the threads I want to start this month is on a help system and tutorials. I expect that to all get thrashed out then.

[doctormm]

ORIGINAL: Mziln


Just so you don't miss it again from WiF RaW 7 aug 04 this is an exact quote:

All units from the conquered side in that country are now moved to the nearest friendly hex outside the country that they may stack in, unless they are at war with the conquerer.

Lets take it slowly just for you:

"All units from the conquered side in that country" this means all units to me. The Commonwealth being at war or not with Germany makes no diference.

"are now moved to the nearest friendly hex outside the country that they may stack in, " to me this means they are moved not rebased to a friendly hex outside the incompletly conqured home country that they may stack in.

"unless they are at war with the conquerer." unelss the HEX is controlled by the conqurer. Friendly is not defined as "on the same side" you could argue that it means "not at war with" (see rule: 9.9 Multiple states of war).

Your inability to properly parse even this relatively simple sentence pretty much dooms you. This animated gif should convey my thoughts on continuing this discussion:

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
One of the threads I want to start this month is on a help system and tutorials. I expect that to all get thrashed out then.

This is very important in my mind, maybe even more than the animation / historic details.
WiF is such a large scope game that help should be provided in as many ways as possible.
I look forward to this thread.

Best Regards

Patrice

[Mziln]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

So you are arguying that the "they" refers to the hexes ??????
An hex is not "at war" with anyone, if you were right, it would be written "controlled by the enemy".
Please.... come on....

"All units from the conquered side in that country are now moved to the nearest friendly hex outside the country that they may stack in, unless they are at war with the conquerer"

1. The subject of the sentence is the "All units from the conquered side in that country".

2. The action is they "are now moved to the nearest friendly hex outside the country that they may stack in, ".

3. "unless they are at war with the conquerer" modifies the action, ie. hexes controled by the conquring power may not be entered.


What you are saying is:

1. The subject of the sentence is the "All units from the conquered side in that country".

2. The action is they "are now moved to the nearest friendly hex outside the country that they may stack in, ".

3. "unless they are at war with the conquerer" modifies the subject of the sentence. ie. who may be moved.

(1) The conqueror,
(2) The incompletely conquered,
(3) Allies of the conquered who are at war with the conqueror, and
(4) Allies of the conquered who are not at war with the conqueror.

Country 1 and 2 are declaring peace.

What You are saying:

Country 2 does not care that hostile units from country 3 remain in country 1?


What I am saying is:

Country 1 is telling country 3 get out of my country. I'm declaring peace and do not want country 2 to have an excuse to go to war again.



Patrice, please don't consider me rude it iis not my intention. It is a problem with the english language.

To put it simply you are saying "The cat ran black" and I am saying "the cat ran fast".

We agree on the subject "The cat" and the action "ran".

What we diagree on is what is being modifed the subject or the action.



doctormm:

I will not resort to pictograms to try and make points. Please note I did not say "make a point".