Slightly OT... who here speaks chinese and or Japanese?

[Mynok]

we non-native english speakers don't understand why native english speakers can't seem to learn another language as well as we can learn english!

At least here in America, we don't get the chance to learn another language until high school (14-18 years old) at the very earliest. Even then, it is highly unlikely that the instructor is a native speaker. [:@] The earlier one starts, the easier it is.

IMO, there is no reason that every kid in the industrialized world can't be taught English, Spanish and Chinese from the very beginning of their education. That would cover, what, 80% of the world's population?

[Zebedee]

Bossgnome - I got this explanation from gf. First character can mean 'intercourse'and is used commonly as such even now to avoid filters. Second and third characters in combination mean 'me'.

As to how, when and why - I remain as ignorant as ever [:)]

[ChezDaJez]

At least here in America, we don't get the chance to learn another language until high school (14-18 years old) at the very earliest. Even then, it is highly unlikely that the instructor is a native speaker. The earlier one starts, the easier it is.

A second language isn't even a graduation requirement in a lot of high schools anymore. When I graduated (way back when) 2 years of a foreign language was required. My Spnish teacher was a 25 year old female who learned Spanish in school. My German teacher was cool though. He was a ground mechanic in the Luftwaffe during the war. He was captured in northern France by the Brits just before Market Garden when his airfield was overrun. He had some very interesting stories to tell!

Most high schools at least offer Spanish as a choice but German is becoming increasingly to find. French has all but disappeared from most of the smaller schools. Forget any of the Asian languages. I don't know of a single high school around here that offers them. In fact, the local college here only offers Spanish and German. I think you have to pretty much get to the university level before having any significant language choices.

Chez

[Wolfie1]

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

At least here in America, we don't get the chance to learn another language until high school (14-18 years old) at the very earliest. Even then, it is highly unlikely that the instructor is a native speaker. The earlier one starts, the easier it is.

A second language isn't even a graduation requirement in a lot of high schools anymore. When I graduated (way back when) 2 years of a foreign language was required. My Spnish teacher was a 25 year old female who learned Spanish in school. My German teacher was cool though. He was a ground mechanic in the Luftwaffe during the war. He was captured in northern France by the Brits just before Market Garden when his airfield was overrun. He had some very interesting stories to tell!

Most high schools at least offer Spanish as a choice but German is becoming increasingly to find. French has all but disappeared from most of the smaller schools. Forget any of the Asian languages. I don't know of a single high school around here that offers them. In fact, the local college here only offers Spanish and German. I think you have to pretty much get to the university level before having any significant language choices.

Chez

I think I would have really enjoyed your German lessons[:)]

[Mynok]

My German professor in college was in the Hitler Youth and fought in the Ruhr near the end of the war as a teenager. He wouldn't talk about it. [:(] Not that I blame him, but it would have been interesting to hear that perspective.

[Tomo]

To them, Japanese translates as '**** me'.
ÈÕ-±¾ÈË

Japanese defence force translates as 'self-pleasuring team'
×Ôο¶Ó

pu..Silly and funny[:'(]

[BossGnome]

actually I don't mean to insult anyone, but I must agree with Speedy, maybe english speakers are a littly lazy. In canada French is required until 10th grade, but it is still amazing to see how few people who graduate from those classes (and I mean like 6 years of french!) actually speak the darn language. It really disgusts me when I look on the other side of the banner, and I see all those quebecers who are near fluent in english by the time they graduate. It is not so much lack of skill as lack of good attitude that prevents the english canadians from learning french. They tell themselves,"why should I bother learning french? Only a bunch of frogs speak it anyways, the whole world should speak english, and then we'd have no problem!" Its such near-mindedness and self-satisfaction that, as a native french speaker, really disgusts me, and really makes me hope quebec separates from the rest of canada.
On the other hand, you can't really blame the americans, if you don't have a chance to study a foreign language, how are you supposed to learn one? But then again, whose fault is it that foreign languages aren't required anymore? Heck, just do like you always do and blame it on the bush administration...

[captskillet]

I took a dead language at Jesuit in high school..........it was either French, Spanish or Latin.................I went with Latin....et tu Brute!

[Mynok]

On the other hand, you can't really blame the americans, if you don't have a chance to study a foreign language, how are you supposed to learn one? But then again, whose fault is it that foreign languages aren't required anymore? Heck, just do like you always do and blame it on the bush administration...

[:D] Americans are definitely a bit lazy when it comes to learning languages. I find languages fascinating myself, and enjoy learning them. It was how I got into computers. Nonetheless, it is a stereotype based in fact that English speakers feel they can get by without learning other languages because so many do speak it to some extent.

Maybe we should blame the British? [;)]

The lack of language education in American schools is directly related to the sad state of our primary and secondary educational systems, as well as a dearth of qualified instructors willing to teach at those levels.

Curiousity question for Bossgnome: how different is Quebecois (sp?) from standard French? Can you converse with people from France?

[BossGnome]

um, a lot of british actually speak decent french it turns out. Not as bad as canadians or americans. And Mynok (cool name btw), québecois is actually not that different from standard french. It is spoken with a different accent, and has a few different words, but I'd say québecois has less than 200 words that are proper to it. In almost all respects it is like standard french. Most of the typically québecois words are curses[:D]...

[ChezDaJez]

Americans are definitely a bit lazy when it comes to learning languages.

And I think that is probably driven by our geography. There is little need to speak a foreign language in the States unless required by one's occupation. Spanish is probably the most useful language for Americans to learn due to the influx of immigrants from Mexico and other Latin American countries but even then most of the younger hispanics learn English quickly so that reduces the need further. Many Europeans speak multiple languages due to their geography, being in close proximity to countries speaking those languages.

Chez

[BossGnome]

true, but yet sad when tourists come to the states they are expected to speak enough english to get around, yet when an american goes abroad, the american expects to be served in english...[:(] I'd have no problem if it went both ways, but if foreigners have to learn english to get around in america, why do americans expect not to have to learn a little of the language of the country in which they are travelling?

I'm just generalizing here, I know many many americans who are currently learning japanese with me in japan. So don't get offended please anyone.

[captskillet]

Curiousity question for Bossgnome: how different is Quebecois (sp?) from standard French? Can you converse with people from France?

Another analogy would be 'Cajun' French vs French............Cajun French of course came from the Acadians (Nova Scotia) who migrated to Louisiana................it may be closely related to the Quebec French you alluded to earlier.

[ChezDaJez]

yet when an american goes abroad, the american expects to be served in english...

Sadly, that is true. But I do think it that the vast majority of Americans recognize that if they go to a foreign country, may have communication problems if they haven't taken the time to at least learn a few basic phrases and greettings. Only some are so arrogant and stupid as to demand English be spoken to them. Unfortunately, its these people that get remembered, not the ones that make an effort to learn a language.

SChez

[anarchyintheuk]

If you're visiting a large metropolitan area in the US, chances are there's a community of ex-pats that speaks your language. Like other countries, there are visitors from all over the world, how many languages can you be fluent in?

[ilovestrategy]

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

If you're visiting a large metropolitan area in the US, chances are there's a community of ex-pats that speaks your language. Like other countries, there are visitors from all over the world, how many languages can you be fluent in?

I speak 2, my wife speaks 5 [X(]

[patrickl]

Hi

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

If you're visiting a large metropolitan area in the US, chances are there's a community of ex-pats that speaks your language. Like other countries, there are visitors from all over the world, how many languages can you be fluent in?

I speak 2, my wife speaks 5 [X(]

What are they?[:D]

[ChezDaJez]

how many languages can you be fluent in

You don't need to be fluent, not even conversant. But if you know you're going to a certain country where English isn't the native language, why not learn how to say "hello", "goodbye", "please", "thank you" and a few basic phrases such as "Wo ist der Badezimmer, bitte?" or "Una cerveza mas, por favor."? Might not be exactly correct but it works. And people appreciate the effort.

I have visited 47 countries in my Navy travels and have lived in places like Sicily, Iceland, Spain and Japan for at least 1 year. I knew at least the basic phrases. One of the best I learned was, "Can you help me, please. I don't speak your language." You'd be surprised how willing people are to help if you just show a little courtesy and effort.

Chez

[BossGnome]

i absloutely agree. You'd be surprised how helpful quebecers are to an english speaker when he makes just that little effort to speak french... and just how un-helpful they become if said english speaker does NOT make the effort.

As for acadian french, I lived for 12 years in a little french speaking village in nova scotia, and you could almost say nova scotian (not to confuse with neo-brunswickan) french is its own language! the accent is unintelligible to french people, words of old french that haven't been used in modern french for over 200 years (words like bailler instead of donner) are current among the french they speak, as well as several frenchisied english words make for quite a melting pot that, were there more than a few thousand (possibly 50 000 in all) that speak it, I would consider a genuine language.

For example: in standard french: "Je suis allé chez ma grand-mère hier soir parce qu'elle devait me prêter un peu d'argent."
in acadian french: "Hiar à sworre e shus allé su' ma grand mére à cause que e è'devait m'buyer un miette de cash."
Please note that acadian french has no agreed upon written form and I have done my best here to convey the correct pronounciation. In both cases the meaning is the same: "Yesterday night I went to my grand-mother's house because she had to lend me a bit of money."

Cajun french is indeed close to acadian, but much more closer to the root french than the nova scotian dialect is. The neo brunswickan, on the other hand, being closer to quebec, remains very french, however the accent is different from the quebec one, as are many of the words used. It should also be noted that none of the swears used in quebec french are used in Neo Brunswickan french...

Man this makes a lot of dialects of french... gotta love those minority acadian populations[:D]

[ilovestrategy]

i speak English and Tagalog. My wife, a filipino, speaks English, Tagalog and 3 local dialects all 5 as if she grew up in that particular area. I still dont see how she does it.