Taking a break...

[treespider]

Just sent my last turn to Andrew and noted that the wp.prfs file was modified one minute prior to the witp001.pws combat save file. I believe that is the nasty culprit...

Currently my routine, as it was before.

#1 I receive your e-mail
#2 I save your turn in the save file
#3 I start Witp and execute the turn
#4 I issue orders
#5 I save turn in seperate slot
#6 I end turn and save in seperate slot
#7 I completely exit game.
#7 I zip file (only now I will include wp.prfs)
#8 I mail file.

[m10bob]

Of course, the "saved" part of ongoing games may be affected by power surges, lightining storms, the power of the CPU,etc..
The problem might then be at either end......???
Intangibles like a poor internet provider/connection or even high volume on that connection ??[&:]

[ragtopcars_slith]

also, I believe it stated in the manual not to zip the files... they cannot be compressed much, so there is no point to zipping.
is it possible the zipping is causing a problem?
keep on charging tree... got keep the good CHS stuff coming! [8D]

derek

[Helpless]

ORIGINAL: ragtopcars
is it possible the zipping is causing a problem?
derek

zipping or any other "outside" factors (internet connections, e-mail systems, sun activity[;)] ) hardly could cause synchronization problem. in worst case files will be corrupted and not usable at all.

[Captain Cruft]

You can zip the files up without problems.

As I said, this is not just a file problem. When I get it the start of the replay is generally OK, it only goes wrong half-way through.

Just FYI I have now referred my theory to Mike Wood. We will see whether he says "silly boy" or "good point"

[Damien Thorn]

I think you guys are wating your time trying to find a solution when it is a bad system to begin with. My friend and I experience this problem way bacy with Uncommon Valor (it uses the same system). Our solution was to use a freeware movie capture uptility to record the game replay on the Japanese computer and email that to the other player. It was a few megs in size but that should be ok if you use Yahoo which lets you send files up to 10mb, and if you have cable modems it only takes a few minutes to download. I forgot the name of the program we used but I'm sure you can find several with a quick Google search. Another nice thing about this kind of vcr recording is tha you can rewind and watch any part of it over and over without having to run the whole replay agian.

[Helpless]

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

I think you guys are wating your time trying to find a solution when it is a bad system to begin with. My friend and I experience this problem way bacy with Uncommon Valor (it uses the same system). Our solution was to use a freeware movie capture uptility to record the game replay on the Japanese computer and email that to the other player. It was a few megs in size but that should be ok if you use Yahoo which lets you send files up to 10mb, and if you have cable modems it only takes a few minutes to download. I forgot the name of the program we used but I'm sure you can find several with a quick Google search. Another nice thing about this kind of vcr recording is tha you can rewind and watch any part of it over and over without having to run the whole replay agian.

cool [:)]

playing H2H with netmeeting and desktop sharing would also be a solution [:D]

[treespider]

Between the sync issues and other apparent bugs I’m not sure I’m going to want to continue with this…

Evidently my sending the prfs file to jim did not help...He is still having sync issues.

Other bugs rear their ugly heads.

The entire 65th Bde in the Northern Phillipines has now vanished. It originally invaded San Marcelino and was forced to retreat to Lingayen. Additional fragments were landed in Vigan and Laoag. After retreating the main portion to Lingayen I issued orders to return to San Marcelino…IRC two days later the main portion vanished. The 65th Bde (a piece which was a fragment and is now a non-fragment) now appeared to be in Laoag with 77 squads and 200 some odd support. I issued orders for these guys to move to Lingayen. Today they have vanished.

In addition the damned movement reset bug is going to kill me in Burma. My 55th division is on the trail to Moulmein from Rahaheng. I had advanced 20-30 miles,,, I noticed after one of Jim's air attacks that my movement had apparently been reset. Today I check the hex and some artillery that was one hex behind has joined up and is actually 10 miles closer to Moulmein than the Infantry which had been on the road for three more days.

Also previously unmentioned i had a task force formed in Siagon with the intenet of taking resources to Sasebo. for about 5-or 6 days the Task Force would load resources then the next day the task force would unload the next day. I eventually formed a new task force and disbanded the old task force to execute the mission...

It’s one thing to be a victim of bad tactics…It’s another if the bugs kill you....and still another if you combine the two[;)]

But to be honest I have serious reservations about continuing this game or with WitP in general or computer wargames for that matter. In fact I think I believe this will be the last dime I spend on computer wargames. I have yet to come across a strategic computer wargame that is not loaded down with bugs.

[treespider]

After the series of bugs Jim and I have encountered in our game, I am going to take a hiatus from WitP. I simply cannot justify the time investment to play a game that is broken.

Don't get me wrong I love what WitP could be....I just cannot invest two-three hours a day on a game with vanishing units. I can live with the air transport workaround, I just cannot live with a unit vanishing because movement orders were issued to it. That to me is completely unacceptable. I do not want to have to try and contact Mr.Frag everytime this crops up.

A game where a unit's movement orders are reset just because of an airstrike, I suppose a house rule could be implemented only allowing ground strikes on units in base hexes.

A game where task forces repeatedly do not perform the mission assigned, I am not refering to a surface force or a cv force not doing what is ordered but to the simple task of loading resources and shipping them back to Japan (a somewhat crucial aspect of the game IMHO)

A game where my PBeM cannot see the same combat replay that I am seeing, and these are just some of the bugs that I have seen in 10 days of PBeM.

I can accept uber B-17's and uber Zeros and killer ASW stacks, and all of the other perceived bugs that to me are a matter of taste, as workarounds can be had for all of these.

In any event I will probably still lurk around this place to see what comes of this game as it definitely has hope...

[Brady]

treespider- I appricate your frustration, and all the points you have made regarding the Bugs are true, they are very frustrating, and some of them Like the B-17's can be worked around, their are others I would add tot hat list of yours but....


Non of them for me have been game stoppers, I can play around them, I know their their and they are for my apponet as well. The game is still fun, after playing it since it came out nothing is realy a suprise for me despit it's flaws it is till one of the Best War Games I have ever played.

[mc3744]

I have 7 PBEM running on 5 different installs.
On a totally random basis, once in a while, I go out of sync. It happened the same in UV.

I've also exprienced some really annoying bugs and bad game features.
I still think this is the best wargame ever and I try to consider the bugs and the bad features as a bad and unintended implementation of the concept of 'bad luck'.
If I get a bug, it's like one of my generals has gotten drunk and given really bad orders that lead to the vaporization of a unit. [;)]

I understand your frustration and I had it too. I still feel though that this is a great game, worth spending time with.

Cheer up. [:)]

[Slaughtermeyer]

ORIGINAL: mc3744

I have 7 PBEM running on 5 different installs.
On a totally random basis, once in a while, I go out of sync. It happened the same in UV.

I wonder if you would have gone out of sync if you had 7 PBEM on 7 installs. Maybe a separate install for each PBEM (and even for each game against the AI if you have any) is the way to go. Has anyone who had a maximum of 1 game per install ever had any sync problems?

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Slaughtermeyer

ORIGINAL: mc3744

I have 7 PBEM running on 5 different installs.
On a totally random basis, once in a while, I go out of sync. It happened the same in UV.

I wonder if you would have gone out of sync if you had 7 PBEM on 7 installs. Maybe a separate install for each PBEM (and even for each game against the AI if you have any) is the way to go. Has anyone who had a maximum of 1 game per install ever had any sync problems?

Yes - i have. Clears up after using the patented Pompack method, though.

[Feinder]

Tell you what...

As a software developer myself (14 years, BS CIS), I'm stongly considering going back to school, and getting a Masters in something completely differnt.

I don't think folks realize just how complex software has become. The myrrid number of OS (un)compatabilities, driver issues, internet considerations...

It's NOT easy. I would be the first to complain that a "stand alone" game, without 2 player or internet should be bug-free. But it's not that easy (for the reasons listed above). Your code can be rock-solid on one system, then have some quirk of memory addressing on a driver somebody's video card, and wham, you get flooded with complaints that the software is crap (when it fact it's a driver compatability issue, something you have no control over).

Don't get me wrong. I get frustrated as much the rest of everyone. And as a developer myself, I can see some glaring errors where I can see what was done, and I just wonder why.

But I am saying that there a LOT of things that can contribute to something like the sync isssue. It's one of those things where reach half way to the goal (of fixing it) every time. With each patch, you get closer, but you never quash all of problems.

If you can't get -any- games to sync up, then yes, you're screwed. But for the occasional "speed bump" of 2 - 3 turns where they're similar but not the same, the best thing you can do is to have the Japanese player send the combat.txt file with the 001.

And by the way, an "un-sync'd" turn does have some advantages. In case you haven't noticed, all of the events are -potentially- real. As in, if your ASW group finds and kills a sub that is not on the actual replay, that sub REALLY IS in that location. Consider it useful Sigint info, and payback for not seeing the critical hits and ground odds from the combat.txt that your Japanese opponent (should) send you.

-F-

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Tell you what...

As a software developer myself (14 years, BS CIS), I'm stongly considering going back to school, and getting a Masters in something completely differnt.

I don't think folks realize just how complex software has become. The myrrid number of OS (un)compatabilities, driver issues, internet considerations...

It's NOT easy. I would be the first to complain that a "stand alone" game, without 2 player or internet should be bug-free. But it's not that easy (for the reasons listed above). Your code can be rock-solid on one system, then have some quirk of memory addressing on a driver somebody's video card, and wham, you get flooded with complaints that the software is crap (when it fact it's a driver compatability issue, something you have no control over).

Don't get me wrong. I get frustrated as much the rest of everyone. And as a developer myself, I can see some glaring errors where I can see what was done, and I just wonder why.

But I am saying that there a LOT of things that can contribute to something like the sync isssue. It's one of those things where reach half way to the goal (of fixing it) every time. With each patch, you get closer, but you never quash all of problems.

If you can't get -any- games to sync up, then yes, you're screwed. But for the occasional "speed bump" of 2 - 3 turns where they're similar but not the same, the best thing you can do is to have the Japanese player send the combat.txt file with the 001.

And by the way, an "un-sync'd" turn does have some advantages. In case you haven't noticed, all of the events are -potentially- real. As in, if your ASW group finds and kills a sub that is not on the actual replay, that sub REALLY IS in that location. Consider it useful Sigint info, and payback for not seeing the critical hits and ground odds from the combat.txt that your Japanese opponent (should) send you.

-F-

FYI...it wasn't the sync issue that killed my enthusiasm. The sync issue can be gotten around IRC just by turning off the animations...it just started the downward spiral...Take the sync issue...

Couple that with the Cargo Task Force I create in Saigon on turn one with orders to load Resources and travel to Sasebo.. turn 2 still loading, turn 3 unloading, reset orders, turn 4 loading, turn 5 unloading, reset orders turn 6 loading , turn 7 unloading, disband the task force and form a new one that finally loads and starts on its way ....

Couple that with the 55th division who had four days head start on the 3rd Mountain Artillery out of Bangkok and ended up 12 miles behind the artillery on the trail to Moulmein because its movement got reset because of an airstrike...

But what really killed the game for me was the vanishing 65th Bde. Not just the first time but the second time. I could even accept the fact that the main unit being highly fatigued just gave up the ghost and melted away...what I could not accept was when the fragment which had become the parent also disappeared two turns later.

As I stated earlier I think I'm going to give up computer games altogether. My neighbor has already done so for the same reason. I have yet to come across a computer game without serious bugs. I understand your concerns about compatibility issues between computers, its that very issue that has probably driven me back to paper and cardboard although who I'll find that has the time escapes me...

[Captain Cruft]

Shame to see you go TS.

FWIW not all computer wargames are buggy, there are some of high quality. I will not name names on this forum though.

[Feinder]

I'd love to play the cardboard games. My brother & I still have a quite a few of them.

Unfortuntately, between wives, kids, jobs, and lawns, it's tough to actually MEET to play them (entre' computer war-gaming...)

[*sigh*]

-F-

[Sarge]

Sorry to butt right in guys on this one

I have played quit a few PBEM games going back 4-5 years now of Combat Mission.Zip-ing a file can and does at times cause exactly what you all are discribing. Compressing and extracting the code will scramble the file at times.

[Speedysteve]

Hi Sarge,

Only prob here is that most of the time the file is not zipped and the out-of-sync still occurs.

Steven

[bradfordkay]

Tree, I understand what you are feeling. I have taken a hiatus from games quite a few times in the past. I keep returning for one reason... only on computer will I ever be able to finish a grand campaign like War in the Pacific. I have never been able to keep a single cardboard/paper game set up for anything like the time needed to finish any of the monster games. Thus I will keep coming back to WITP. I consider its bugs to be a whole lot less game breaking than Typhoon Kitty has always been (okay, one game of On To Richmond was desctroyed by an actual earthquake a few years back).