Leader bug - AGAIN

[saj42]

I thought this was under some degree of control, but it's annoying me again.

I was getting some poor combat results so I thought I'd check my leaders (for aggression/inspiration). What did I find - SEAC HQ commanded by a STAFF OFFICER, same with 23 Chindit Brigade, amongst others. I had air transported them from Chandpur to Mandalay, and paused to allow the parent and fragment to switch places. Did this cause the change in leaders[&:]

[Twotribes]

They dont know. And dont expect an answer, the response I got was it is too much trouble to find and fix.

[saj42]

Oh well - just have to add this leader check to my list of things to do every turn. Talk about micromanaging [:D]

[Zachary]

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

They dont know. And dont expect an answer, the response I got was it is too much trouble to find and fix.

I waited over a year to buy the game assuming that it would take that long to get rid of its serious bugs, and am definitely disappointed with the number of bugs still present. And "too much trouble to find and fix" is definitely inexcusable for me, I would not have bought the game had I known it was official Matrix policy to deliberately ignore such bugs. Maybe it won't be "too much trouble to find and fix" if enough people start boycotting the purchase of Matrix products until Matrix decides that it's worth the trouble to get it fixed. I intend to do such a boycott, and if anyone would like to join the boycott, they could try putting something like I have in their sig.

[Tankerace]

Just for clarity, since by 1 post I assume you are somewhat new here, they did fix several instances of it, and made it now where their is a good chance the leader is not removed forever. Don't get the impression that they simply said "too much trouble to find and fix". IF they said that (and I have never seen that said, nor heard it anywhere else), it was after they had exhausted all attempts at fixing it. Keep in mind, Matrix makes other games too, and 1 year hence, they need to move on to those other games. They have attempted to fix the leader bug, and it is now no longer rampant, nor as bad as it once was. They did not simply decide to not even mess with it, as one might infer from TwoTribes post.

[saj42]

I can't recall the previous leader of SEAC so I don't know if he was lost forever. I've just air transported the 44th Indian division and it too ended up with a staff officer in command, so the bug, small as it maybe is there. It's not a game stopper so I'll just get on with it.
I'll run a few tests - if I am loosing the leaders permanently then it's a more serious bug than I thought. If anyone else out there wants to give it a try please let us know your results. I'm playing scenario 113, started v1.5 patched to 1.602.

[Tankerace]

Well, keep in mind that for bug reports, only official scenarios will be considered. So, if you loose leaders in a modded game, then it may be because of the mod, and not the game. Its only useful to kill the bug if you are playing scens 1-16.

[Nomad]

And that is very interesting since they shipped it with an editor, and the development team expressed the hope that there would be a number of user created senarios. Now they don't want to support them. And I have a senario 15 game where there are many leader problems. I have WOs incharge of air squadrons, 2LT incharge of CVs, etc. A couple of turns ago I found an IJA Major General in command of an AK. It is not a 'game stopper' but it is aggravating to have a bug that they can not seem to find and fix. In all fairness I guess I should indicate that we are using version 1.5 because when we try to upgrade to 1.6 at least 2 IJA divisions either disappear or teleport to far off bases. [:@][:(]

[Tankerace]

They do support them. But the best example of why they need official scenarios is when Ron Saueracker did a mod version of a scenario, and complained of a leader bug. Turns out, his "bug" was because he messed with the leaders, and screwed the scenario. It is just easier to nail down the actual problem with an official scenario, because with a modded scenario they have to download it, look through it to rule out a problem there, and then begin the bug hunt. It is quicker and more efficent to kill game bugs by using official scenarios, and makes more sense.

[Captain Cruft]

I suspect quite a lot of the leader bug instances are actually caused by the official scenarios. The leader and pilots table are a mess ...

CHS didn't change those BTW.

[Tankerace]

I'm not going to say they are or are not... I am just making the point that that is why they want (or at least, wanted) official scenarios for bug reports.

[saj42]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Well, keep in mind that for bug reports, only official scenarios will be considered. So, if you loose leaders in a modded game, then it may be because of the mod, and not the game. Its only useful to kill the bug if you are playing scens 1-16.

Scenario 113 , is the 'standard' scenario 13 but using Andrew's map - no modding of devices/units/ leaders/etc - the only thing changed is the base locations IIRC

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Tallyho!
Scenario 113 , is the 'standard' scenario 13 but using Andrew's map - no modding of devices/units/ leaders/etc - the only thing changed is the base locations IIRC

Sorry to say this is not quite right - I do remove a few duplicate leaders from the database (leaders that are in charge of more than one unit - I don't remove the leader from the database, I remove them from command of the second and subsequent units they start in charge of). I decided to do this because I blindly hoped that it might help prevent the leader bug from occurring, but it looks like it hasn't done that. It certainly shouldn't make things worse, though.

I can see both sides of this - I too don't believe that the changes I have made to the scenario change the nature of the problem, but I can also see that a blanket ban on accepting save files from modded scenarios saves time by eliminating any mods as a possible cause of problems. It shouldn't really matter, as long as players DO send in saves of official scenarios that highlight the problems. Once the bug is fixed it will help with official scenarios and modded scenarios alike.

Andrew

[Captain Cruft]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown
Once the bug is fixed it will help with official scenarios and modded scenarios alike.

An optimistic man!

Is the "submit save", "debug" and "patch" cycle even still in existence?

I feel sorry for Tanker and michaelm to be honest. Left to deal with the flak without any power to fix anything.

Sorry, grouch mode is ON today ...

[Twotribes]

I posted the specific prolblem and informed the moderators I had a repeatable save to show the problem. The response I got was "this one is to hard to nail down, we dont need your safe".

And conviently the thread is no longer here.

If you want to call me a liar, do so directly.

[Twotribes]

Name of thread "Leader Drain" Author "Twotribes" set this browser to 90 days and it will appear.

[Yamato hugger]

I reported a repeatable crash bug a couple of weeks ago and no one resonded at all. [8|]

I think its safe to say that until Matrix turns the game over to someone else, we are done seeing any "fixes" at all.

[Zachary]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

I reported a repeatable crash bug a couple of weeks ago and no one resonded at all. [8|]

I think its safe to say that until Matrix turns the game over to someone else, we are done seeing any "fixes" at all.

So the report by dereck that a 1.603 build already exists is unfounded? That really sucks, all the more reason to boycott Matrix until they change their policy.

[Tankerace]

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

I posted the specific prolblem and informed the moderators I had a repeatable save to show the problem. The response I got was "this one is to hard to nail down, we dont need your safe".

And conviently the thread is no longer here.

If you want to call me a liar, do so directly.

If you are referring to me, I was in no means trying to call you a liar. I merely said I hadn't read that. The whoel intent of my post was to make it clear that they did try to fix the leader bug, as your post could give the impression to a newbie that they simply said they wouldn't fix it from day one.

and I have never seen that said, nor heard it anywhere else)

I merely said IF they said that, and that I hadn't seen it (doesn't mean they didn't say it), they had tried to fix it before, and had fixed some instances of it. Never meant not implied you were a liar.

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown
Once the bug is fixed it will help with official scenarios and modded scenarios alike.

An optimistic man!

Yes. What I should have said is: "IF the bug is fixed it will help with official scenarios and modded scenarios alike."

Maybe that is still being optimistic...