Thoughts and ideas

[Speedysteve]

Hi all,

Thought i'd start a topic for us to post our thoughts and musings with regards to tweaks that we think could be made to the game to 'improve' things. Here are some of my initial ideas. Let me know what you all think and please add your own.

1. Fighter interception.

I wonder if it would be possible and desirable to tweak the intercept routines and accordingly 'defendability' of returning escorts and Axis fighters? By this I mean that when a fighter has reached bingo fuel and is flying home they have no chance of any pro-active combat only defensive combat. I wonder it there was a chance to give returning fighters a chance to attack any enemy planes. I think if so, then it should be a greatly reduced chance to account for the lack of spare fuel but nonetheless the option could be there? As it stands returning fighters are virtually dead meat to any pro-active opposition.

----------------

2. Message Levels and intelligence

This one is fairly simple. This idea was spawned when I thought of the Level 3 message settings. At this level the Allied player has the ability to view which airfields planes are taking off from. I personally don't think this should be possible.

Following on from this it made me think. Would it be possible to have a new screen and routine employed; an Intel screen for the Allies (A la WiTP)? On this screen there would be tidbits of info that would allow the Allies to act accordingly. E.G.

"1/JG2 is flying FW190A's and is currently based at Deelen"
"The Axis commander ordered 8 x 88mm flak guns to be installed at Bussig NAG Engine factory complex"
"Erla Maschinenwerk has recently changed production from the 109G-6 to the 109G-10".

Etc etc.

What do you all think? That way it would allow the Allied player to plan ahead and act accordingly by not just recon but also intel.

Regards,

Steven

[Uedel]

Well other things for me that would be giant if the would be made are:

1) Production Manager: I find it very uncomfortable to search every factory and change it production there (Hell i can do it faster in a HEX editor then in the Game [:D] ) Some kind of a Slider or whatever interface where u can change the production of 109 engines from 24 per day to 16 per day and raise the production of BMW Motors from 16 to 24 (with the information of the Delay it causes) etc etc also for avionics and Parts ....

2) a Deploy Manager aviable at the Start of the Campaign where u can Deploy your forces to where u think they should be and dont spent 20 Turns for reorganissing your Airforce/Luftwaffe to your needs, this could be optional for the Player, so one can decide to start with the default deployment of troops or say hey when i was in command erly i would have set my troops this way

3) Allied fighter Patrols that are denied to straff AF Railways etc so i can sent them over smallcallibre AAGuns Areas without the fear thaey get wipped to dust

these are the things i would wish for this game.

Also a question to Matrix, will there be some Engine rewrites or just additional patches for this Games? Will we the owner of the Original Game have to buy the game again or will we be able to update it via patches (maybee even for a lower price) to the new Standart, abd when will it finaly arrive (hope not to far because the game is ready allready since years [;)] )
And finaly the most important Question WHERE IS THE KING, he Lives i know it [:D][:D]

[Hard Sarge]

Ideas and Ideas

for the game, I believe they stated that they would be re releaseing the games and any patches upgrades would only work with there verison of the game (hmmm, need a number to install the patch ?)

I don't think we would really get a discount for already owning it, but they also seem to be saying they will bundle them, so for this amount of money you will be getting this and this and that

we did send a list of bugs and or corrections that need/would be nice, to fix from the people who were working with JC

ideas may still have to wait until we get word on if this is a revamp or just a update

if they can work with the Exe, then alot of things can be fixed, changed, added, if they are only going to be able to work with the OOB, ideas and wishes may be moot

all we can do is wait for the good news

[Uedel]

Well as far as i can see, i maybe will buy the Package of the Game BUT only if there are new features and a global Upgrades from the existing game are made, other i would have double the titles from a game that i allready own, and when nothing is changed except some OOB´s (not disrespect JCL´s work here) i will sure not spend 40$ or whatever they may charge for it.
So the option is clear: Work on the Games add new features graphics goodies etc and get money for me
or Release them like they are now and you will sure not see a cent from me because what they offer i allready have.

[Hard Sarge]

that is understandable
I do think they plan to upgrade and improve the games, and not just put a new label on them

and as we have seen with PacWar, WiR and Steel Panthers, they are good at upgradeing and fixing what was wrong to start with (and as those were "free" games, think what they will do for money)

but again, all we can do is wait and hope, or wait and complain, or....

[Speedysteve]

Yes I agree. Look at SP for example. Major improvements.

It is as you say Sarge a matter of waiting for Matrix to release what they plan but in the meantime I think there is no harm in us all suggesting realistic ideas for enhancement/improvement.

Steven

[Hard Sarge]

I want the opening Phase of BoB to be the opening Phase of BoB
not start on Aug 13

there was a lot of fighting going on over the Channel, bombing ships, sneak raids and so on, while the two sides got ready

(maybe have have most bombing Targets greyed out so the GE player does not get a head start, but would like to see the ships added as targets)

hows that

I want Trains in BTR, not just RR, I want rolling stock

there is more stuff to strafe then just Airfields

I want the combat to be fair to both sides, not give the AI a edge depending on which side you play

I want Ground troops to stop being Flak Traps, what a joke, a Tactical, AA gun does not fire at any passing plane, they are kind of hiding !!!

if they are attacked, defend themselfs, but they don't fire at High flying Bombers

besides, most times, when a unit was in place, there heavy AA was pulled and places into other places to help defend (Bridges and what not)

don't get me started

[Speedysteve]

Thats good bud keep it coming [;)]

I agree totally on the trains in BTR. Thats would be cool. Not much poiint in have FG's strafing as it stands.....

Also on LCU's. Ties in with the land warfare stuff we've spoke about before. Rather than eye candy make them acutally do something and have a worth.

[Uedel]

Well would be be nice to have some offical statements from Matrix regarding the course they will go sooo please .......[&o][&o][&o][&o]

[von Shagmeister]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

I want the combat to be fair to both sides, not give the AI a edge depending on which side you play

I want a robust AI that isn't stupid and will be a worthy opponent. The reason things are biased to the AI is because it is has very limited skills. Basically I want an AI that is as sneaky, innovative and as skilled as a human player, alot to ask but ultimately what should be strived for.

von Shagmeister

[Hard Sarge]

Well one thing I was talking to JC about, was to get a set number of preplotted "days" loaded into the game, and then try to set up a system for the AI to decide to pull one of them, instead of plotting it's own

which would of needed a number of preplotted raids, plus enough to be able to be set for different times of the game, but that would of threw a monkey whech into things

which to be fair, I did ask JC to have a number of different players send in mission days (of course this would only of been any good for a GE player)

but yes, I would like to see a improved AI, I know why the 163 don't work in the game, but I am locked with the NDA so can't talk about it, but that also hampers the other AI planes for the same reason

to a point I can agree with the AI bonus, but they went over board, 10 Ju88s will do 150 points of damage to a AF in BoB, but 200 Ju88s for you will do 10, no, that don't get it

but....

[Speedysteve]

Hi VS,

Now that would be great. When playing the AI. I prefer playing the Allies since I think it does a better job as Axis. I still think it will be a struggle to get a REALLY good AI though. Improvements have clearly been made in that field though. Look at WiTP. It is a HUGE game in comparison to BTR and the AI does ok in that game. Sure it's no human but for the size of the game and the variables it does ok.

Something else i've thought that would be nice -

1. A production screen for the Axis. By that I mean that shows the totals of all parts in production - radar types, engines. components, AFV's etc. That way the Axis could see where the shortfall was. At present he couldn't adjust his industry but......

2. How about allowing the Axis player to adjust his industry? Now I don't mean wholesale adjustments or increase in production but lets say for example that the Axis player noticed his Rheinmetal ARM factories are being smashed and he is receiving fewer AA guns then allow the Axis player to convert some other apparently useless ARM factory to produce them (with a tooling time of course). Want more FuG-212 then stop producing those blimming FuG-202's etc etc

3. Linked in with my mentioning of a more interactive ground war and actually effective LCU's how about bringing in actual effects on the LCU's if OIL levels are reduced to a sereiously low level - perhaps have LCU's having no AFV's or receiving no more = less effective in combat = more chance of a successful Allied attack for example

4. Also initiated by WiTP. How about visible and active pilot replacements? Of course at present new pilots do have an exp cap on them according to the time of the war BUT how about an actual screen showing how many trained pilots are available at present? A get pilot button feature? Etc

I know the above is a take from WiTP. But to learn from another product is no bad thing.

Regards,

Steven

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: Uedel

Well would be be nice to have some offical statements from Matrix regarding the course they will go sooo please .......[&o][&o][&o][&o]

Knowing Matrix as I do. They will be communicatrive when they have decided the right course of action and the time is right. How does the saying go: "All good things come to those who wait" [:)]

Regards,

Steven

[Hard Sarge]

LOL
but just remember, it wouldn't really be stealing ideas from another game, as UV is almost the son of BTR as WitP is the son of UV

been wondering if it would be worth while to try and make a combat system more like WitP, have say areas or zones, to plot your raids to, and for the GE to set his defences, then run the turn, and have at it (would be a bear to fine toon)

one thing to remember also about Gary G's games, he is a master at makeing reactive AIs, that look like they are thinking and planning, when in the long run it is only reacting to you

which, so saying, is why, it is HARDer to play as the Allies then as the GE in BTR, the AI is able to react to you, where as the Allies, it has to attack, and let you react

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge
been wondering if it would be worth while to try and make a combat system more like WitP, have say areas or zones, to plot your raids to, and for the GE to set his defences, then run the turn, and have at it (would be a bear to fine toon)

Funny you should mention that bud. Nik and I were talking about this about 2-3 weeks ago. WiTP style combat is IMO more visually attractive and less accountancy like for example. Would be interesting to see this as a prototype for sure to see how it feels in the BTR world.

Steven

[pompack]

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Hi all,

Thought i'd start a topic for us to post our thoughts and musings with regards to tweaks that we think could be made to the game to 'improve' things.

Just for starter thoughts:

1. I would like to see a "staff" calculator for escorts: I want to plot a raid, assign a passel of escorts to the raid, and then tell my staff to give me "best coverage". Today I have to sit down and assign the short ranged a/c to the early part of the raid track, assign a longer ranged escort to the next leg, continuing until I have reached the longest ranged escorts longest range. Then I do the whole thing again in reverse to cover the return.

2. I would like an intel "staff" that would show me the German airfields that have been identified as active. Right now I have to pick up this info by watching during a raid, record the info on a convenient PIECE OF PAPER FCS, then try to find the right piece of paper when it is time to plot sweeps for the next day's raids.

3. Either automate or abstract the recon function; it's a pain to have to individualy specify 20-40 recon flights (and yes I have tried to let the AI do it by target systems)

Interestingly enough, 90% of my play has been as the German but the ideas that come out first all deal with the Allies. Of course that may be one reason I play the Germans 80% of the time[:D]

[Hard Sarge]

Hi Speedy,
well, I been thinking about a different type of combat system for a while now

one point, is that the 8th FC didn't fly excort the way we have to plot it in the game, most time,s they were assigned a patrol area, at so and so a time, they were to be there, if everthing worked so would the bombers, they flew there zone, until the bombers were past, then they were on there own and would do there freehunts

[von Shagmeister]

Hi Steve,

All good points, infact I've advocated points 1, 2, and 4 myself in the past.

I had a quick look through the Wish List for the Future of BTR thread tonight searching for something and there is really a lot of good stuff in there.

Cheers

von Shagmeister

[Speedysteve]

Hi VS,

Firstly thanks and secondly you're right I had forgotten about the stuff on the future of BTR thread on BTR.

There are more ideas but I want to think them through fully first. Also i'll search through that topic and highlight what I think are valid and good points.

Thanks and regards,

Steve1980

[Speedysteve]

Hi all,

Like VS said on the BTR forum there are some IMO great ideas for tweaks/changes to this great game. Here are some snippets:

DBS -

"Fighter-bombers (esp Apaches and Typhoons) which actually attempt to defend themselves when bounced on more than a 1% chance. In other words, an end to 8 out of 24 losses when a German interception bounces them, say, three times in a row at 400'. Losses on the first bounce perfectly realistic. But after the initial surprise, both types were perfectly capable of looking after themselves, especially at low level."

"Recce pilots that gain experience - as far as I can see, no matter how often they fly, they don't improve."

ageliher -

"Recce, NF & RCM squadrons that selected rested pilots to fly missions rather than the first in the list, (Which I still believe is part of the reason for recce losses)."

"Mission templates for the planning phase, to make plotting night raids and their support easier."

"A reference calendar/advance planner that contains the dates that a/c become available and what the next seven days mandatory targets will be and weather *predictions* (I don't believe the Strategic Air Campaign was fought at 12 hours notice for the entire period !)"

"A text file save of the messages in the replay so I don't have to spend 15-25 minutes each major day watching to see where things happen. Better yet a method whereby the game can query and sort this info just like the other listings available during the briefing phase." - IN EFFECT LIKE THE COMBAT REPORT IN WITP

Von Shagmeister -

"Ability to re-assign Axis imtercept missions to a different raid."

"Allow badly damaged a/c and/or a/c with wounded pilots to land at the nearest a/f instead of flying to a more distant home a/f. If it means that it takes a few days for the a/c to be repaired and get back to its parent unit so be it."

"Details of what armaments factories are producing ie radar sets, weapons etc. Will help the Axis plan his defenses."

"I would like to see LW pilot losses due to "SAS" raids stopped or moderated. Fair enough if these losses are attributed to flying accidents etc but they are still high and I think I'm correct in saying that this doesn't happen for the Allies, if it happens for one side it should for the other."

"I would also like for LW night pilot losses caused by attacks on their bases during the day to be moderated. True some pilots might be accomodated on the base but by this stage of the war many pilots were billoted away from base to minimise losses."


Harley -

"On an Axis unit page a 2 buttons - one to stand down for the day (will not appear in selection lists for intercepts, and will not go to cockpit readiness) and one to stand down indefinately. In either of these scenarios planes on the ground should suffer minimal casualties (they were often at dispersal fields overnight), and should go to the maintenance queue * they are guaranteed to be ready by the following day and pilots should suffer next to zero casualties (Fell off bike - broke wrist, killed at local whorehouse during bombing raid etc...) "

Gavin Bailey -

"Night intruder plots repeatable at x minute intervals (rather than individual follow on missions with manually changed start times). Same for fighter sweeps."

"Extra aircraft types: lets' have the technological fantasies for the Allies if the Luftwaffe are getting the wonder weapons: small numbers of Airacomets, Meteor Is and then production of Meteor IIIs for 1945, P-80s for mid-1945. Does the B-25 turn up in the game? In any case, if the Hurricane IV makes it in, then the Westland Whirlwind, Avro Lancaster IV, Avro Lincoln, Spitfire F.21, de Havilland Hornet & Vampire, Hawker Tempest VI, Hawker Tempest II should all appear in 1945. Well, that's a bit of a stretch for the Tempest VI and the Hornet, but equally the others all deserve some representation to varying degrees. Also, the P-47M, P-47N and the P-51H should be in contention. The P-47M at least was contemporary with the Spit F.21 and did see action in spring 1945."

"Allied FBs to get 60lb rockets as per historical reality."

Otisabuser -

"More waypoints, for those long range missions to skirt round flak and confuse Gerry."

Hard Sarge -

"also can there be a hosp page or something, to show how many/how long the pilots are going to be out for (once wounded he is off the info page, if he is an Ace he may still show up on the Aces page as WIA, but if he has no kills yet, or below what is being tracked, we have no idea of where he is at or when he will come back into action)"

"for the GE side, how about kills for the Flak units, and cities/production sites (can't give it to the guns themselfs, but the RR batterys and airfields)"

More to come.........

Steven