A question to those who've played the boardgame version of World In Flames

[Executioner Five]

Was wondering if the boardgame version is solitaireable--was looking at it in a store the other day and was sorely tempted to purchase. Thanks .

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Executioner Five
Was wondering if the boardgame version is solitaireable--was looking at it in a store the other day and was sorely tempted to purchase. Thanks .

I guess the first question you need to answer is "Do I have a life?". The game requires at least 25 square feet of table top space for the maps et al. You could just play one of the two map scenarios which would require perhaps half that amount. I always used two butcher block tables 5 feet by 2.5 feet with stainless steel legs and two 1/4 inch glass sheets placed on top of the maps, so we could put the counters on the glass and still see the maps. This kept the map from getting crud on it (e.g., stains from beer steins). I tried plexiglass but it gets foggy after a while and hard to see through. The glass needs to have polished edges though, unless you think a little blood on everything adds some verisimilitude.

Then there are the rules. You might download a copy of RAW 7.0 for free just to see what all is involved in playing WIF. Even ignoring all the add-ons and optional rules, you still have to plan on one or two weeks to come up to speed on how the game actually is played.

It is best if you can find someone who has played the game and you can learn from them. A second choice is to collar a friend and get him/her to join you in learning how to play. Doing it all on your own is certainly possible, but I refer you to my first question.

Once into the game though, you are likely to love it. I say this based on the thousands (10s of thousands?) who have gone before and succumbed to its charms. There is a reason there have been a dozen add-ons to the original and the basic game has come out in at least 5 editions after the first. I myself own three different editions, and consider them all excellent purchases from which I received hours of enjoyment at roughly the cost of 7 cents an hour. Hmm, do I have a life?

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Executioner Five

Was wondering if the boardgame version is solitaireable--was looking at it in a store the other day and was sorely tempted to purchase. Thanks .

Few wargames are really very solitaraeable, and playing WiF solitaire, while completely possible, remove one of the main aspects of the game which is the uncertainty of what the enemy is up too. Possibilities are so wide within that game, that playing against yourself quite remove this, and only leave you with the marvelous mechanic of the game.

Have you tried subscribing the english speaking yahoo group about WiF (or the french one if you're french speaking), and trying to find opponents by posting on it ? It might be quite efficient.

Best Regards

Patrice

[Cheesehead]

Buy the game. Read through the rules. Set up the game and play through some situations to get a feel for the game. By the time you have a grasp of the rules you may have found a local opponent...if not you can PBEM using the Vassal or Cyberboard programs. These work quite well. I'm currently playing 2 games using Vassal and they are both moving along very well. You could just download Vassal and the WiF module because the Vassal module contains all the maps, counters and charts you need to play the game...but I strongly recommend buying the board game and learning the rules hands-on first as this is a challenging game. It's fun to learn. It's best to play your first game against an experienced opponent so that you don't learn the rules incorrectly, as happened to me. I prefer Vassal to Cyberboard because it offers greater variety of map scales...but I know there are WiFers out there that prefer Cyberboard for different reasons. When you are ready to play a PBEM game feel free to contact me...I'm building up a collection of names and e-mail addresses of PBEM players so if I can't play I can probably find someone who can. If you want the game to move along at a good pace it is better to play someone near your time zone and/or with similar work schedules so that you can communicate game interactions during your turns. Of course the Vassal and Cyberboard game engines will all be obsolete when Steve finishes MWiF, which is the fully loaded computer version of the board game...but you still will want to buy the board game now to start learning how to play. Downloading the rules alone will not allow you to do this as you will not have the charts, maps and counters handy to plunk around with. Good luck!

[Shannon V. OKeets]

communicate game interactions during your turns

I am interested in more details if you can provide them. Right now all I have planned is a sort of universal, one size fits all, chat message. If I can provide more differentiation that would be useful, I will.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Executioner Five,

I am writing up the design for the AI opponent and thought you might find my first section, that provides an overview of the game, of interest.
================
Overview
1.1 MWIF Objectives
World in Flames is a game of conquest where the winner is determined based on victory hexes held at the end of the game. Indeed, the game ends early if one side controls a sufficient number of victory hexes. Since control of a hex is only achieved by having land units either traverse the hex or occupy the country’s capital, land units determine who wins.

1.2 Land Units
There are dozens of types of land units and they can be corps or division size. In order for land units to attack outside of their home country, they need to be able to trace a supply line back to a supply source, either in their home country or an occupied country. To do that, they need to be near a headquarters unit which can trace supply back to a primary or secondary supply source using rail lines. Because the only way to take out enemy held victory cities and enemy capitals is by attacking in foreign lands, these lines of communication are crucial for making any progress.

1.3 Naval Units
If the enemy is overseas, then supply/communication lines need to extend overseas. This is done by having convoys in contiguous sea areas stretching from the overseas location to the home supply source. To keep overseas units in supply, there must be at least one convoy per sea area, thereby forming a convoy pipeline. The convoys are extremely vulnerable to attack, so naval units are used to defend friendly and attack enemy convoy pipelines. If all supply lines could be land based, then the naval units would have very little value. This is why historically Germany and the USSR could fight such a prolonged and bloody conflict with virtually no naval units.

1.4 Air Units
Air units enable a player to provide additional striking power at the point of attack. This can be done both attacking and defending and both on land and at sea. Air units also have a limited ability to transport land units and supply. One unique role they perform is to attack enemy production through strategic bombing. In general though, air units are augmentations to land and naval forces, which respectively perform the primary tasks of taking territory and providing supply.

1.5 Transportation Lines
In addition to the rail lines and convoy pipelines providing supply, these same 2 transportation lines are used to transport resources to factories and reinforcements to the frontlines. The mechanism is so similar to those for maintaining supply, that for most purposes they can be thought of as the same. What has to be kept in mind is that the importance of the rail lines and convoy pipelines is multiple: (1) provide supply, (2) send reinforcements to the frontlines, and (3) send resources to factories.

1.6 Production
Once resources have been delivered to a factory, a currency known as production points are produced. Depending on the intensity of the war effort, these production points are converted into a number of build points. Build points can then be used to create new land, naval, and air units. They can also be used for repairing naval units, generating supply depots, and creating new factories. Being unable to generate a substantial number of build points each turn means that a country is unable to replace losses to its army, navy, air force, and merchant marine and eventually it is doomed to defeat.

[Mziln]

1.1 MWIF Objectives
World in Flames is a game of conquest where the winner is determined based on victory hexes held at the end of the game. (see 13.8 Victory check ~ Automatic Victory)

1.2 Land Units
There are dozens of types of land units and they can be corps or division size.
(see Rule 22.4.1 Divisions Option 2 (AsA/MiF/PoliF)) ~ Treat any brigade size unit as a division.

1.6 Production
(see Rules: 5. Lending Stage, 13.6.4 Lend lease, and 5.1 Trade agreements).

[Cheesehead]

quote:

communicate game interactions during your turns

I am interested in more details if you can provide them. Right now all I have planned is a sort of universal, one size fits all, chat message. If I can provide more differentiation that would be useful, I will.

Our PBEM interactions are mainly the type of communications that will be covered by your standing orders. I have found with the PBEM engines that playing very methodically (not jumping around phases like face-to-face games tend to do) makes for an easier to follow game. Vassal has a message box that allows you to describe what phase you're now doing (naval movement, etc). This much communication won't be necessary with MWiF, but it will still be nice to have an easy to use message box for chest-thumping or, in my case, self-depracating remarks when I watch another of my convoys bubble down to the ocean floor. [:)]

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead

quote:
communicate game interactions during your turns

I am interested in more details if you can provide them. Right now all I have planned is a sort of universal, one size fits all, chat message. If I can provide more differentiation that would be useful, I will.

Our PBEM interactions are mainly the type of communications that will be covered by your standing orders. I have found with the PBEM engines that playing very methodically (not jumping around phases like face-to-face games tend to do) makes for an easier to follow game. Vassal has a message box that allows you to describe what phase you're now doing (naval movement, etc). This much communication won't be necessary with MWiF, but it will still be nice to have an easy to use message box for chest-thumping or, in my case, self-depracating remarks when I watch another of my convoys bubble down to the ocean floor. [:)]

Ok. Thanks.

[Caranorn]

To date I've only played WiF solo (my planned opponent died before I managed to teach him the game:-), and my one attempt to attend Euro Wifcon was a failure (I ended up standing at the Kassel RR station with no one knowing to pick me up, so I jumped onto the next train back home...). All in all it's easily doable, you just need the before mentionned space and a lot of time. That is to say more time then a group game as you'll have to setup the entire game alone which can take a whole day (that is if you setup from the box andnot from a previous game). Obviously you will miss out on some things, particularly the interaction with other players. But as long as MWiF isn't out yet I'd consider it a good alternative to have solo game setup.

Sad to say, but I haven't played WiF for 2 years now because of the time needed to setup a game and the enormous space required to keep it running (when my brother, my prospective WiF opponent died I also lost one of our two huge game tables). CWiF was quite handy for that once most game elements had become playable. But I don't think I have a copy of the beta anymore. The huge advantage there was much less time required to setup the game and obviously no extra space needed.

[SurrenderMonkey]

You CAN (technically) play solitaire, if you have the large spaces available. The chief problem would be air combat and naval interceptions, which IMHO are the finest and most elegant aspects of the game system. So you'd be missing out on the many "mini-poker" hands that happen during a FTF game. [8D] But to learn the system, you could play solitaire.

[vonpaul]

ORIGINAL: Caranorn

To date I've only played WiF solo (my planned opponent died before I managed to teach him the game:-), and my one attempt to attend Euro Wifcon was a failure (I ended up standing at the Kassel RR station with no one knowing to pick me up, so I jumped onto the next train back home...). All in all it's easily doable, you just need the before mentionned space and a lot of time. That is to say more time then a group game as you'll have to setup the entire game alone which can take a whole day (that is if you setup from the box andnot from a previous game). Obviously you will miss out on some things, particularly the interaction with other players. But as long as MWiF isn't out yet I'd consider it a good alternative to have solo game setup.

Sad to say, but I haven't played WiF for 2 years now because of the time needed to setup a game and the enormous space required to keep it running (when my brother, my prospective WiF opponent died I also lost one of our two huge game tables). CWiF was quite handy for that once most game elements had become playable. But I don't think I have a copy of the beta anymore. The huge advantage there was much less time required to setup the game and obviously no extra space needed.

I know how you feel, however Vassal is a good alternative now (which wasnt around when i played solo in the mid 90's)

[pak19652002]

Most people play solitaire out of desperation because they can't find FTF partners. I did it once with the 2nd edition and swore I'd never do it again. The reason is simply (as has been stated) that WiF takes an enormous commitment of time and physical space and it is unsatisfying to put all that effort in and not be competing against other people.

The solution is to play CWiF (when available) or use one of the two other methods available, CyberBoard or VASSAL. We have a Yahoo! Discussion Group that focuses on online WiF issues and I would be happy to issue invitations to anyone who would like to join. You can learn about the options, ask questions, observe ongoing PBEM games and find players. Contact me or go to the group's website:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/PetesCBWiFgame/

Peter

[Franck]

I'm the one who is currently playing against Cheesehead ( what's that name anyway???) in one of is 2 PBEM game. Our game is running pretty smoothly... I have had the game for 3 years now and never got around to finish a full game... Even tough we started 3 times... BUT THIS GAME IS THE GAME YOU MUST HAVE!!!! It is awesome! But you also defenitely need a computer and the vassal engine. I plan on starting a game with a freind, but there's no way we will play a ''real'' game, we will use Vassal even is we are face to face...


Oh and by the way cheesehead, France will fall before the end of this turn, just look at me go...[:D]

[Cheesehead]

Hi Franck

For those football fans in the states, my apologies, but for the rest of you the cheesehead is an affectation worn by those who worship the Green Bay Packers NFL football team as I do and have done since the age of seven.

Yes, France will fall, but France is supposed to fall, just not too early.

[Hoplosternum]

I find that the game plays well Solitare. The main problem is space. The "Final" Edition is on 4 big maps plus a US mini map, a big increase from the 4th / 5th Edition I started with.

Although you cannot surprise yourself easily [;)] it is easy to game out a typical closing the Med Strategy or Sealion etc. The air war suffers a little but it is still a very good game solitaire in my view. I highly recommend it Solitaire if you have the time intesest and space.

I would be cautious about diving in to Cyberboard etc. I don't doubt these are very good ways to play if you have some WiF experience and space and/or lack of opponent difficulties.

But this game is very long and is a big commitment. A more experienced player is going to be at a big advantage over someone who has not played and only knows the mechanics of the game. The choices you make early on can come back to haunt you as the Axis are capable of a runaway in WiF (and bombing badly if France holds). The game is not very forgiving of early errors (or gearing/build errors at any time) and I would be cautious about taking on the commitment of a "real" opponent until I'd practiced some of this and seen a little of what works and does not.

[Cheesehead]

I find that the game plays well Solitare. The main problem is space. The "Final" Edition is on 4 big maps plus a US mini map, a big increase from the 4th / 5th Edition I started with.

Although you cannot surprise yourself easily it is easy to game out a typical closing the Med Strategy or Sealion etc. The air war suffers a little but it is still a very good game solitaire in my view. I highly recommend it Solitaire if you have the time intesest and space.

I would be cautious about diving in to Cyberboard etc. I don't doubt these are very good ways to play if you have some WiF experience and space and/or lack of opponent difficulties.

But this game is very long and is a big commitment. A more experienced player is going to be at a big advantage over someone who has not played and only knows the mechanics of the game. The choices you make early on can come back to haunt you as the Axis are capable of a runaway in WiF (and bombing badly if France holds). The game is not very forgiving of early errors (or gearing/build errors at any time) and I would be cautious about taking on the commitment of a "real" opponent until I'd practiced some of this and seen a little of what works and does not.

I agree with what you say as far as the game being unforgiving, especially when an experienced player plays a "newbie." Yes, mistakes in the beginning are carried through and sometimes multiplied as the game moves along. However, I disagree with your assessment that solitaire play is the better way for an inexperienced player to learn the strategy. Solitaire is good for the mechanics of the game, but most people will not think of all the subtle strategies employed by an experienced player. The school of hard knocks is more likely to create a better player than countless solitaire games.

Another problem I have with solitaire play is that it can create carelessness. Running all seven countries is a daunting task and you are bound to forget to move a ship here and a plane there in which case you say to yourself, "I meant to do that last impulse (or turn) so I will just do it now." Who will care? Pretty soon it happens on a regular basis...it takes great discipline not to give yourself a mulligan every impulse.

I'm still relatively inexperienced in this game and I'm playing PBEM a very experienced and nice fellow in Florida, using Vassal, who is offering a lot of advice as we play. He alerts me to the dumb things I'm about to do and mentors me along. In my other game (against Franck) both of us are about at the same level...we're both making mistakes and learning from them...and we're having a great game! There have been a few mulligans allowed but we're having fun playing, we're making steady progress and the game is still up for grabs.

I just don't know why anyone that doesn't have a local opponent wouldn't jump on the chance to PBEM. It beats the hell out of solitaire play.

[Hoplosternum]

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead

Another problem I have with solitaire play is that it can create carelessness. Running all seven countries is a daunting task and you are bound to forget to move a ship here and a plane there in which case you say to yourself, "I meant to do that last impulse (or turn) so I will just do it now." Who will care? Pretty soon it happens on a regular basis...it takes great discipline not to give yourself a mulligan every impulse.

This is certainly a trap you can fall in to [:)] I know I do this a lot.

I do think it makes a decent Solo game though.

And although learning from an expert is obviously an excellent way to learn, it is still a big commitment. With a Solo game you can restart or even put it back on the shelf if you decide it's not for you. You won't be letting anyone down.