Early Allied Actions

[alfrake]

(you may wish to ignore the somewhat rantish first paragraph)
What do the allies do in the early game other than run away like mad? We are now in early March of 42 and everything I have done has only gotten me killed. And I don't think I've been agressive! I really feel I should have issued orders on turn 1 for every warchip to run to SF and Karachi, a few convoys to Australia, and then skipped over every turn since. Most recently, 16 zeros and 8 Kates (that's it!!!) wrecked two carriers (70% CAP, 31 wildcats flew, one is technically still floating but likely sinks tomorrow). I have one functional US carrier left (and 1 Brit), my air strength in Australia (shipped in from US) has been mostly wiped out, India has few fighters left, the DEI is down to remnants. The KB hasn't done that much (its just wiping out Australia's airplanes), but his land based airpower is more than enough. My only "victory" was killing 2 or 3 heavy cruisers he lost track of (literally, as confirmed by the Japan player) and sailed without cover into my carriers.

I'm really discouraged because the game just isn't interesting. My actions do not matter. When do the Allies have something relevant to do?

[Dereck]

You may have to wait until 1943-1944 and even then this game is still geared toward giving the Japanese benefits and hindering the Allies.

[Yamato hugger]

Well truth be told, against a decent Jap player the allies should refrain from doing anything but counter-punching until Aug or Sept 42. By counter-punching I mean sitting back with massive land based air and letting him come to you. All you can really do initially is sit back and wait for him to make a mistake.

Hit with PTs (he gets 1 point apiece for them, but if one of your torps hits a CL, DD, or AP/AK its worth 6 to 11 points so its a good return on your investment. Your stuff is replaceable, his isnt. Nickel and dime him to death. Every pilot he loses is a victory for you. Every ship that sinks is irreplaceable.

That being said, you really need to protect your carriers. Dont operate more than 2 in a single TF and 1 is better, but keep them all together. Land based LRCAP over them is a necessity and never ever EVER go out with CV airgroups with less than 80 experience.

[Przemcio231]

hey the best thing to do in DEI is forming up Force Z and ABDA task forc and hunt for unprotected jap shipping around the Area in one of my Games i was able to wreack Havoc in 2 larg jap Convoys... and when the KB will show up run as fast as you can[:D]

[PimpYourAFV]

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231

hey the best thing to do in DEI is forming up Force Z and ABDA task forc and hunt for unprotected jap shipping around the Area in one of my Games i was able to wreack Havoc in 2 larg jap Convoys... and when the KB will show up run as fast as you can[:D]

Hmmm seems you conveniently left out the fact that all my escorting cruisers and battleships following the 1 convoy you hit (not 2 [;)]) got returned to base cause I didn't know the 'retirement allowed' setting had to be turned off when making TF's. [:'(] Supply all the facts dude, supply all the facts. [:D]

[Sneer]

Yamato - I can sign with both hand with your statement[8D]

[tsimmonds]

Yeah, that's the rough thing about this game, you do pretty much have to pay attention to what you are doing.[;)]

[PimpYourAFV]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

That being said, you really need to protect your carriers. Dont operate more than 2 in a single TF and 1 is better, but keep them all together. Land based LRCAP over them is a necessity and never ever EVER go out with CV airgroups with less than 80 experience.

A bit hard to understand. Keep them together but only 1 is better? Do you mean have seperate TFs for each CV but have one following the other to stay in the same hex? Or keep them several hexes apart while covering each other with airforces? Does this apply to the CVEs the IJN starts with, the baby KBs as they are called?

[pauk]

ORIGINAL: dereck

You may have to wait until 1943-1944 and even then this game is still geared toward giving the Japanese benefits and hindering the Allies.

yeah, but what is even worse, situation will be even worse in 1945 for the Allies....

no offense, but guys, don't you never get tired of such "proofs" and statements?

I wonder if you ever played PBEM?

[Nomad]

We are talking about early USN here. I use either 1 or 2 CV TFs, depends on the number of escorts I have available at the time. I like 1 CV, 5-6 CA/CL, 6-8 DD for each.

As stated above, the Allies do not have much in the offensive capability until Sept or Oct 1942 and even then you will not have all you think you need. You have to pick your 'line in the sand,' that point that you will not retreat beyond. Once you do that start building your defenses at that point. The trick is to defend a point that is far enough back to give you enough time to build defenses and far enough forward to be effective. What you want is to end up having the Japanese forces have to make major assaults to continue to expand, if they want to expand. It is the old trading space for time. Time is your friend as the Allies( look at my sig line ) You will also need to determine which units you will try to move back and which are to stand and die. You will have to 'expend' LCUs to gain you the time you need to get the goodies that show up at SF to SWPAC and SOPAC areas. Plus every time the Japanese player has to assault a base it takes time( time to plan and execute the assault, time to rebuild/refit his troops, etc.)

[Arstavidios]

ORIGINAL: TokyoBoyTensai

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

That being said, you really need to protect your carriers. Dont operate more than 2 in a single TF and 1 is better, but keep them all together. Land based LRCAP over them is a necessity and never ever EVER go out with CV airgroups with less than 80 experience.

A bit hard to understand. Keep them together but only 1 is better? Do you mean have seperate TFs for each CV but have one following the other to stay in the same hex? Or keep them several hexes apart while covering each other with airforces? Does this apply to the CVEs the IJN starts with, the baby KBs as they are called?

Keep your CV in the same hex but in different task forces. They share CAP but it spreads the risk as it is unlikely all the task forces will attacked. Moreover you can have more escorts overall than if you just keep all your CVs in a singe task force.

You can now have a whole escort task force for each of your CVs

[PimpYourAFV]

Okay thanks for clarifying Arstavidios. I'm thinking this might be a good idea too for the IJNs baby KBs at game start. I don't think they'd hold up well if they ran into the US CVs but I'm not sure. I may start doing some wacky things once I learn the mechanics of the game so my big KB could be in some weird place not accessible when needed. I like wackiness (habit inherited from countless hours of playing chess) cause it freshens up the game which is weird considering I haven't even played it normally yet except for like 11 turns or so.

[anarchyintheuk]

Don't even think to engage your carriers until your upgrades are done, air wings expanded and devastators sent to the airplane hell they deserve.

Obviously, Nimitz would have made a poor WitP player.

[hbrsvl]

Hi-I play as the Allies, scen 15. Perhaps some of the following will help. 1. In the Phillipines & Malaysia, set all ground units to "no replacements"-this saves supplies. 2. Using your political points , get as many Eng units out of both the above, to Port Morseby & Broome-Darwin. 3. Bring Prince of Wales TF to the DEI. 4. Send a Dutch AS to Trimcomalee & plan to withdraw Dutch subs there when the inevitable happens. 5. Get your B-17cs to Port Morseby, as well as many VF as you can. ( When you withdraw your AK from the Philipines, send some to Hollandia, etc. so you can pick up VF stranded because of no Eng.) 6. Get the US convoy in SoPac to Lunga & get Allied Eng units there also. 7. From Darwin get the Gull Force & the other Force to Port Morsby & Buna. ( I'm trying a scenario where I'm fighting for Rabaul-so far so good-1/42.)8. In Australia, send the Eng unit at Alice Springs to Darwin & move Eng from Melborne( I think) to Alice Springs & get AS to Broome & Darwin. Also get Aus Inf to Broome from Perth, & units at Sydney, etc to Darwin & Townsville, etc. There are several Aus units at Sydney-Brisbane that are Alloted to SoWesPac. Get them into Buna or Gasmata-Rabaul ASAP.9. Garrison Baker(or Howland) to cut down shipping time to SoPav-SoWesPac. 10. There is another US convoy with troops-try to get it to Luganville, or better Lunga. 11. Use your SS to start mining Tokyo, etc., then go on war patrol. 12. On first turn, send as much supply & fuel from SFO to So-SoWesPac as you can-it takes a month to get there. Route thru Baker or Nanomea. 13. Retreat all units to Clark Field-Manila-Bataan. Same for UK units to Singapore. 14. Get as much fuel from DEI as possible to Broome, Darwin & Port Morseby. 15. In about a month there will be a massive Japanese SS force moving into Coral Sea-get some ODDs fro Manila & Pearl there. Last, Use your massive US ASW assests at Pearl Harbour to cleanout enemy SS around Pearl. Also save WAKE , if you can. Hope this rather lengthly summation helps. Hugh Browne

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Nomad

We are talking about early USN here. I use either 1 or 2 CV TFs, depends on the number of escorts I have available at the time. I like 1 CV, 5-6 CA/CL, 6-8 DD for each.

I use this type of arrangement all the time as well. However, sometimes I split up the carriers rather than keep them together. I mean send them to different ports or even different theaters. The idea being, if I know that I am not taking any offensive action with them I am going to spread them out so that if the KB surprises me, they won't all get wrecked at once.

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: hbrsvl

7. From Darwin get the Gull Force & the other Force to Port Morsby & Buna. ( I'm trying a scenario where I'm fighting for Rabaul-so far so good-1/42.)

R u playing the AI? I have been successful defending Rabaul against the AI, but I am dubious it would work for long against a PBEM player. In fact, in my most recent game, I was talked out of such a move by others in this forum.

[Tom Hunter]

To get ideas read AARs that discuss strategy.

Mine do, there is an old one titled The Imperialism that might be helpful, and I have some strategy notes in my Lunacy game AAR.

Gen Hoepner also writes about his plans, and Wobbly does too.

At the start of the war your forces are not good enough to win head to head confrontations with the Japanese, so you need to look for areas that are not high on Japans priority list and counter attack there. And by counter attack I don't mean mass your CVs and launch invasions, I mean mass some airpower and raid with some surface ships like Force Z, mentioned above.

Hold back your surviving CVs until late 1943, it is going to take you that long to recover your offensive punch. Instead learn how to use Land Based Air, and if you get the chance put your CVs safetly behind a large concentration of LBA and then move into action after the Japanese have fought themselves out taking on the LBA.

Your actions matter a lot in this game, but the time between taking the action and its effect is very long. Getting good at this game takes experimentation and reading, and frankly if your Allied you have to have a certain mental toughness or your not going to make it. Good luck.

[Yamato hugger]

Against a "real" player, only way you are going to keep PM is if the Jap doesnt bother to take it.

[Gen.Hoepner]

Play Japan a bit...then you'll know how to defeat it and punish it even in 42.
Japan is far from being invincible in 42.
KB cannot be everywhere. Unbalance him. Play flexible. Hit and run. Force him to leave zeros everywhere to defend his key bases and his merchant ships.
Attack him in Burma,in China. Use the b-17s. Use everything you have. Just do not throw away your carriers in early 42 against the KB. After august, with 6 CVs and the avengers will be able to face even the entire KB...and remember that 3 allied CVs traded for a Major Jap CV is a fair result for you.

[Przemcio231]

Ohhh come on my attacks were state of the Art[:D] it were planned and carried out with great precision and timing[:D] BTW where is the turn[&:][:D] i got more in my sleave for you japs[:D]