Lunacy in the Pacific: Mogami vs. Oleg

[Oleg Mastruko]

1st Feb 42 and I see this:

For 2/42, the British Must Withdraw: 1 CLAA + 2 DD

I never played Allies "for real" before, so what does this mean? How do I withdraw Brit stuff? Can I withdraw ANY CL and DD, even WW1 vintage garbage? Does CLAA qualify as CLs? What happens if I don't withdraw anything?

O.

[Oleg Mastruko]

First attack on Rabaul today.

I am sending 2 Marine + 1 US Army divisions there...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Rabaul , at 61,88

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9
G3M Nell x 23
G4M1 Betty x 3

Allied aircraft
Wirraway x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Wirraway: 1 destroyed

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 7

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x G3M Nell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x G3M Nell bombing at 10000 feet

[rtrapasso]

You must get a relatively undamaged CLAA (and 2 DDs) to Karachi, Bombay or San Francisco. Disband the ships into port. Then click on the ship. There should be a button to withdraw ship.

If you do not withdraw ships, there is a PP penalty listed. Penalty is per ship, so the 300 PP is per destroyer. Any unmet withdrawals, and they deduct that amount of PPs from your total, so if you decided (or could not otherwise withdraw) 2 DDs, you lose 600 PPs. You CAN go negative in your PPs this way.

EDIT: It has to be the ship type described. You can't substitute (i'm told) a CL for a CLAA (nor vice versa).

[steveh11Matrix]

Also, it has to be British - you can't substitute in a Dutch ship, for example.

Steve.

[PimpYourAFV]

Oleg, do you think you can defeat Mogami in China? I think Tom has a good chance of at least stalemating but I'm not sure about your situation Oleg in China.

[Oleg Mastruko]

I don't think I can "defeat" him in China, but it depends on how many forces he commits there (or anywhere else). Frankly I am surprised that he drags his feet with USSR attack so much (he didn't start it in other lunacy games neither, and they are more advanced then this one). I thought the "window of opportunity" for good Sov attack is somewhere in January, but I guess I might be wrong.

Perhaps all this USSR talk is just one giant bluff by Mog? Perhaps he does not plan to attack there at all? I admit that would be the best practical joke on us Allied players I can imagine, but I also cannot see what would he achieve strategically by that bluff? I mean, it's not like I can use Soviets elsewhere, they are frozen anyway, or that I can send Marines to reinforce Vladivostok, so bluff or no bluff all Sovs can do is build forts and prepare, which they would be doing anyway (in any regular game). Not much I can do with Soviets anyway.

Perhaps the Soviet bluff was meant to draw Chinese out of their hiding and into the open? We'll see....

Meanwhile...

I said I won't discuss gameyness (either perceived or real) in this thread, but this is just too good to let pass [:D]

Right now I am air transporting elements of Chinese cavalry corps using Dakotas of US Marine transport squadron. LOL How about that for funny stuff for Allies Ron? It's not something I planned, it just happened that way... love between Marine Dakota pilots and Chinese horses I mean [;)]

My pilots say chinese horses are not the best passengers they ever had.... they make for some rocky rides LOL [:D]

O.

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix

Also, it has to be British - you can't substitute in a Dutch ship, for example.

Thanks for the tips guys and yeah, I learned that the hard way. I opened first DD I found in Karachi and spent some minutes trying to find "send to England" button, only to realise it was some Australian DD that happened to be in Karachi by some strange chance (I didn't send it there, it appeared in Karachi as reinforcements). Guess they were chasing Italians in Mediterranean till now.

I guess being an English puppet state sucks [:D] (LOL this is meant as joke, I beg our Ozzie friends not to start a flame war over this one).

O.

[Oleg Mastruko]

Another interesting tidbit.

Mog sent what appears to be full sized KB halfways between Noumea and Guadalcanal. I guess he reckoned this is the time when Allies usually send first reinforcements there if IJN didn't move first (as it didn't, in this game).

Poor Mog. So much work and so much fuel burned for naught. KB buzzed around for couple turns and they are no more to be seen.

2 FAST 4 U my friend? LOL Tell Nagumo to get a good nights sleep, no Allied AKs to hunt.

O.

[Oleg Mastruko]

I removed my sig JPG, lest I bore everyone to death....

Guess by now everyone noticed that:

- I am UV/WITP fanboy
- I am mine warfare fanboy in those games
- GG WAW rules, go buy it and play it
- I am Tito fanboy (somewhat tongue in cheek though)
- COTA will rule once it's released (this was never in my sig but hey)

Oleg

[mogami]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

I don't think I can "defeat" him in China, but it depends on how many forces he commits there (or anywhere else). Frankly I am surprised that he drags his feet with USSR attack so much (he didn't start it in other lunacy games neither, and they are more advanced then this one). I thought the "window of opportunity" for good Sov attack is somewhere in January, but I guess I might be wrong.

Perhaps all this USSR talk is just one giant bluff by Mog? Perhaps he does not plan to attack there at all? I admit that would be the best practical joke on us Allied players I can imagine, but I also cannot see what would he achieve strategically by that bluff? I mean, it's not like I can use Soviets elsewhere, they are frozen anyway, or that I can send Marines to reinforce Vladivostok, so bluff or no bluff all Sovs can do is build forts and prepare, which they would be doing anyway (in any regular game). Not much I can do with Soviets anyway.

Perhaps the Soviet bluff was meant to draw Chinese out of their hiding and into the open? We'll see....

Meanwhile...



I said I won't discuss gameyness (either perceived or real) in this thread, but this is just too good to let pass [:D]

Right now I am air transporting elements of Chinese cavalry corps using Dakotas of US Marine transport squadron. LOL How about that for funny stuff for Allies Ron? It's not something I planned, it just happened that way... love between Marine Dakota pilots and Chinese horses I mean [;)]

My pilots say chinese horses are not the best passengers they ever had.... they make for some rocky rides LOL [:D]

O.

Hi, I fully intended on invading Soviets however you pre-empted me by moving Chinese.
Once you blocked the route Canton-Hanoi the entire starting plan went out the window.
The cost of your success will be a Japanese Operation in China rather then against USSR.
And of course you've succeeded in putting SAA on it's own at least untill CEA deals with Chinese situation. Personally I think a better route would have been to allow Japan to attack Soviets and then launch the Chinese offensive when Japan would have been unable to deal with it. On the Allied plus side remains the fact that bulk of Kwantung Army is out of picture unless PP are paid and garrision maintained. (would not do to have Soviets become active when Japanese not ready to knock them out) On the minus side Japan is now going to thump on China in attempt to bring about force ratios allowing Soviet campaign and of course clear the southern route. Burma and malaya have benifited from the delay. (or will if it continues past Mar 42)

China has to pay for all this.

Ground combat at Hsinyang

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 234660 troops, 2804 guns, 34 vehicles

Defending force 71490 troops, 468 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Hsinyang base !!! (In order to destroy enemy you have to let them capture the base first. against Tom I surrounded Chinese before they captured base and in end had to let them escape)


Japanese ground losses:
6147 casualties reported
Guns lost 138
Vehicles lost 6

Allied ground losses:
62503 casualties reported
Guns lost 574

[mogami]

Hi, If the Chinese are actually capable of a successfull offensive early in war then WITP would be a realy boring game. China can only do what the Japanese allow them to do.
Anyone who ever served in the infantry knows "If everything is going according to plan then you are walking into an ambush"
Chinese advances in this game and in game with Tom Hunter are what JAPAN is allowing. They are illusions. Any Allied player who think he can fight a battle on or east of RR in China has been working under a misconception. The Japanese Army in China is more then capable of delaing with Chinese if they can be lured out their forts and drawn east. It might take a few months and the map might look ugly for a while but this is a 4 year war not a two week war. Japan can attack Soviets any time it suits them after they stablize China. The only points in question are.
1. Is it worth sacrificing Chinese to delay transfer of Japanese to other points?
2. Can Japan instead score enough points in China to offset loss from other areas?

In the end Japan will simply pay PP to move CEA units and since they don't have points early in war can they be freed from being required in China in time to transport to other areas? Auto Victory is not checked till 1 Jan 1943 and units in Chia can be 100 percent preped for other objective before PP are paid and unit transported so such units need to be free to move and be paid for not much later then June or July 1942 in order to have impact on 1 Jan 43 Auto victory check.

[Oleg Mastruko]

Yep, that's the bad news from China. I lost IIRC 6-7 Chinese units in Hsinyang. I can only imagine painfull restraint and meticolous planning Mog invested in three mini-envelopments he did in China in recent weeks.

There were three "hsinyangs" - in Wuhan (what threatened to be the worst, as I had most, and best units there), in Hsinyang proper, and in the north near Chengting.

In Chengting... I escaped as soon as I saw envelopment forming. In Wuhan I fought my way out (and breathed a sigh of relief as my best China units were there), In Hsinyang I was too slow to relieve surrounded Chinese.

Remember what I said about Mog in one of first posts in this thread - that he is Darth Vader of ground combat, and that his restraint and adherence to plans are awesome. Now you know why I said that. In all other aspects I am not much afraid of Mog.

One Hsinyang I think I could live with - Chinese are not worth too many VPs and they will regenerate.

Judging by the speed Mog sent this report here (before I got his turn) I guess he must be jumping around his derelict PC with joy (but he's keeping his cool for the board)[:D]

Chinese paid some price but for the time being eliminated the threat of attack on Soviets.

Personally I think a better route would have been to allow Japan to attack Soviets and then launch the Chinese offensive when Japan would have been unable to deal with it. On the Allied plus side remains the fact that bulk of Kwantung Army is out of picture unless PP are paid and garrision maintained. (would not do to have Soviets become active when Japanese not ready to knock them out) On the minus side Japan is now going to thump on China in attempt to bring about force ratios allowing Soviet campaign and of course clear the southern route. Burma and malaya have benifited from the delay. (or will if it continues past Mar 42)

This is fun part... because "allowing Japanese" to attack Soviets is not something I decide about. If you want me to "allow" it then go ahead [:D]

Frankly I didn't realise how much of your KA forces are engaged in China. It could be said I didn't realise the effect my little pseudo-offensive in China had on your plans, and how angry it made you.

Until couple days ago I still thought you're massing armies in Manchuria to attack USSR "any day now", and are holding bare minimum of forces in China to keep me out of bases. Now I realise you actually must have large parts of KA in China. In that sense limited Chinese campaign was of some use for me.

Perhaps? Who knows? Anyway, now I have to wait for 300 days for lost Chinese units to reform...

O.

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko
Perhaps? Who knows? Anyway, now I have to wait for 300 days for lost Chinese units to reform...

Hmm actually Info screen says 30 days?! They will reform in 30 days? I thought it's 300 days. This is good news. Goes to show I never played Allies in "serious" game.

[mogami]

Hi, Fisrt I never get angry and I never get over joyed. What ever results in game is a product of mathamatical calculations. (mass/speed) I do enjoy solving problems. This is why in so many of my games you see me get into trouble early in war or early in operation. Even when I walk into a disaster. In the end what ever happens was one of the possible outcomes I had to consider.

I like WITP (and wargames in general) because they allow me to gain a better understanding of history. I don't really keep score of wins and lossess because they don't matter. I have fun during the game.

My largest signle fault in playing wargames is I don't stick to my own rules. I know things like "If you don't know exactly where the enemy CV are then they are where they can cause you the most harm" I still get caught by enemy CV forces.

"Just because you would not do it does not mean you don't have to defend against it" I get cuaght all the time by enemy forces that are conducting "suicide" missions. They often succeed because I have not taken steps to prevent them. (I just figure the other guy knows it would be stupid)

I thought Chinese returned next turn

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, If the Chinese are actually capable of a successfull offensive

I would never call what I did in China "an offensive". I merely probed couple hexes ahead in several directions. I am surprised by the ferocity of your reaction though. We'll see how it goes...

[mogami]

Hi, My reaction "surprised you"?
I consider it an obligation to react to enemy movements. I always consider them opportunities and they must be siezed as rapidly as possible. The problem is sometimes you have to sit on your hands and wait while they develop. (Its a mistake to stop your enemy while he is making a mistake)
In every instance I will always ask two questions.
1. Can he hurt me
2. Can I hurt him.

I then act according to the answer.

It is my solemn hope to never allow any enemy movement if it will improve his postion. It is a matter of principle not to allow the enemy to complete a movement or a plan without delievering a blow. (I get to do what I want. The enemy will only do what I want or allow him)

If your doing something and I'm not reacting then I don't know your doing it, Have not understood what your up to or the blow has yet to fall but it's coming.

All you have to keep in mind when playing against me is that no matter how quiet the game or how bad my position is.......I am looking to hurt you.

[Oleg Mastruko]

As of today 7th Feb 42, there are no more Bolos in frontline Allied service - all have been upgraded to B-17s, LB-something (Liberator, but what kind of Liberator is this, available this early in large numbers??) and B-something or other. Bolos are relegated to training duties.

4E lovin' machines, hell yeah!

O.

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

As of today 7th Feb 42, there are no more Bolos in frontline Allied service - all have been upgraded to B-17s, LB-something (Liberator, but what kind of Liberator is this, available this early in large numbers??) and B-something or other. Bolos are relegated to training duties.

British Libs.

Apparently someone in Consolidated factory loved old colonial masters so much that he decided to send them Liberators before they become available for USAAF units in their regular B-24 versions. [:D]

Still, it won't stop me from converting some Bolos to LB-30s while they are sitting in the safety of Russian airfields [:D]

(This is just my imaginary flame war with invisible Allied Fanboy Club members - don't pay attention and don't forget I am lunatic after all [;)])

O.

[Oleg Mastruko]

Lunatic continues his dialogue with his invisible friends...

A-20s and Marauders are next on the list. Fine aircraft both, but with output from my factories as high as it is, they gotta go to the dustbin of history...

Someone called "player defined upgrades" a candyland. Yes, but it's fun!

[PimpYourAFV]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

All you have to keep in mind when playing against me is that no matter how quiet the game or how bad my position is.......I am looking to hurt you.

Not planning on getting married are you Mog?