Strategic Decisions in Feb 1942

[John III]

WOW! What a debate between you two.

I just sent Moses his turn and he tipped me to check out the exchange.

I feel as a Japanese player that IF I am given the opportunity by my opponent then I WILL take every chance to maintain the initiative in the war. The only way for the Japanese to accomplish anything historically better is to focus and CONCENTRATE their power after the initial conquest of the DEI.

This was the Second Phase Operational planning that occurred historically around late-Feb through March of 1942 in real life. The Japanese debated on the SE Thrust, Australia, or trying to link up with Germany by going after India. There talk about the practicalness of taking Hawaii. It was thrown out due to the inter-service rivalry between IJN and IJA. Perhaps that is THE biggest gamey factor in this game. The lack of cooperation between the forces always amazed me. Talk about insular! If I was to be REALISTIC, then I would never have two cooperate together and not expand operations more then what happened.

ANYWAY...I like the Hawaii option...

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: John III

WOW! What a debate between you two.

I just sent Moses his turn and he tipped me to check out the exchange.

I feel as a Japanese player that IF I am given the opportunity by my opponent then I WILL take every chance to maintain the initiative in the war. The only way for the Japanese to accomplish anything historically better is to focus and CONCENTRATE their power after the initial conquest of the DEI.

This was the Second Phase Operational planning that occurred historically around late-Feb through March of 1942 in real life. The Japanese debated on the SE Thrust, Australia, or trying to link up with Germany by going after India. There talk about the practicalness of taking Hawaii. It was thrown out due to the inter-service rivalry between IJN and IJA. Perhaps that is THE biggest gamey factor in this game. The lack of cooperation between the forces always amazed me. Talk about insular! If I was to be REALISTIC, then I would never have two cooperate together and not expand operations more then what happened.

ANYWAY...I like the Hawaii option...

Well thats why some people like playing multi-player games. I dont like them because the game is slow enough as it is.

[moses]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger


The point to all this is this: I dont go into any game (as the Japs) planning to hit India, or Aus, or whatever. I look at what the allies are doing and react to that.

Oh I agree in most cases. But its also good strategy to post a lot to keep you're opponent worried about all the things you might do.[:D]
[:D]

[John 3rd]

-I think it would be fun to play a multi-player camapign but I agree with Yamato Hugger that it would take FOREVER! I enjoy watching the 2x2 or 3x3 AARs but they seem pretty slow.

UPDATE! Singapore fell last night! Mark that date as February 25, 1942. He could not have pulled many troops out of there because I netted 86,444 POWs.

I will take Java within two weeks. I expect to have everything but the Philippines dealt with by mid-March. Two divisions, plus the 3 Brigades already there, should deal with Java. The five Singapore divisions will rest for a couple of days and then be moved to the Philippines to finish them.

Have to admit that I am thinking about leaving the Philippines, letting the Java forces finish them, and go straight for Hawaii. Would love to still have the invasion bonus for my initial landings...

Do people think it safe to leave the Philippines for that long? They certainly aren't getting any supply and are being bombed every round in Manila. All he has left is Manila...

[moses]

Now that you've telagraphed that punch a couple months in advance he will be garrisoning every small island vic. PH with every unit he can scratch up.

So now you invade Numea/New Zealand. Or Austrailia or India.[:D]

[John 3rd]

Hey Moses! Did you get your turn last night? You certainly were fired up when I sent it to you.

I already have Noumea and all of New Caledonia, Canton, Pago-Pago, and will have Suva in a couple of days. These events are what led up to this forum debate/discussion in the first place. I have THE WHOLE of the SE Pacific and haven't suffered serious setback ANYWHERE.

I spotted his massive concentration at Sydney. Neary 150+ ships, some aircraft, and a lot of troops. Have started recon over Palmyra and that area.

Think I will make it look like I am moving against India by increasing my aerial bombardment while setting up for the Hawaii Operation.

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: moses

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger


The point to all this is this: I dont go into any game (as the Japs) planning to hit India, or Aus, or whatever. I look at what the allies are doing and react to that.

Oh I agree in most cases. But its also good strategy to post a lot to keep you're opponent worried about all the things you might do.[:D]
[:D]

The Japanese can't afford to react, in particular that early in the war. They have to dictate what will happen in the war and choose the ground they will fight for. John 3rd's opponent is trying already to dictate how the war will be fought by pulling back and not fighting. The Japanese need to finish off their current campaigns and then dictate where the next battle will occur.

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Do people think it safe to leave the Philippines for that long? They certainly aren't getting any supply and are being bombed every round in Manila. All he has left is Manila...

I usually leave the entire PI army in Bataan and put 1 division on guard duty and run an air training academy out of Clark Field. After they are out of supplies, you have nothing to fear.

[Feinder]

I tend to agree with the "why bother?" school for PH. As an Allied player (and never having had an opponent invade it), I still don't see why you'd spend the effort. The risk/reward/effort to capture, much less hold, PH just doesn't seem worth it.

-F-

[John 3rd]

Perhaps the answer--"Because it is there" is a good enough answer. It could be costly but then again, the reward might be worth the risks...

[Feinder]

Well, it would certainly make for an interesting operation...

Good Luck!
-F-

[Nikademus]

I hope Speedy decides to invade....


oh please please please.... [:D]

[moses]

I just like to have it as an option.

If the allied player sends everything to Hawaii he can make things difficult but then there can't be much defending Numea.

Sending everything to Hawaii the first week is also a risk that the allies have to wiegh. Many Japanese like to lurk about PH and then strike with KB. If you've got every merchant in your navy moving to PH you may have a very bad day.

If the allies wait a month to send reinforcements it may be too late. KB comes back refreshed with lots of ground troops. One thing for sure is that the initial forces in Hawaii are not enough to prevent the Japanese from taking everything but PH with very limited forces. Establish air bases and the fall of Oahu is a matter of time.

Later in the game if the allied player has moved added force to Hawaii things will be more difficult. Still the invasion is no more hazerdous then trying to take Numea. It all depends on where the allied player has decided to send his forces.

The advantage of owning the central Pacific is very real. Essentially the allied player will have zero intell about anything 10 hexes beyond the west coast. A field day for raiding Japanese carriers.

[anarchyintheuk]

Admiral Laurent's AAR has an invasion of PH that is about as well planned as you can get. I think moses is spot on concerning PH. Don't know personally whether it would be worth it to take it, but I couldn't imagine as an allied player how pissed off I'd be to lose it. Losing my forward base for a counteroffensive, sub base, repair yards and coughing up a couple of divisions from my oob wouldn't help my frame of mind at all. If you didn't have PH you'd have to invade/build a new one for an offensive in CentPac. Does taking PH preclude you from doing anything else? What does it preclude you from doing? Is PH worth more than that. Don't know the answers to that.

[John 3rd]

I hadn't thought about the recon factor in taking PH. If the Japanese can get it, then the Allies have next to NO intel ability for the Pacific. Aside from SS, there wouldn't be much there of use.

If I could get PH, then I would have a repair facility for use as a forward base. The size of the harbor would be HUGELY important. Key would be grabbing the outlying portions of the Hawaiian Islands and then starve everyone out.

If Wolfpack defends it, as he MUST, then I have the OPPORTUNITY to achieve a clear-cut victory. Perhaps AV...not sure but WHY NOT??!!

[Yamato hugger]

PH isnt exactly a "forward base". It wont be until the allies try to retake it, which wont be until sometime in 1944 when he has minimum 6 Essex. But, with the exception of an all out grab for it on turn 1 of scen 15, I dont think its takable.

[moses]

But like in my game with John III intel is very important.

In our game I still hold the Hawaian area and Palmyra/Chrismas island. I also hold Numea and New Zealand. Everything in between is owned by Japan. Now in one sence none of those islands are worth spit. He has to hold and supply them and in the end they will be retaken.

In the near term its a real problem. He still has heavy naval superiority 12 carriers to my five (and I'm including a CVE and a damaged carrier). This superiority is going to exist for some time unless I get lucky somehow. Its late August 42.

So I have this giant blacked out zone covering a huge part of the pacific. His carriers can appear almost anywhere without notice which means I have to be very careful.

I also have to preserve my carriers. What happens if he shows up with 8 carriers at SF. He can quite possibly get there without notice. Yes I have planes there but 8 carriers might well stop my LBA and one good raid could damage every ship in the port. Can I really put my carriers there? If not there where? I am taken precautions but its difficult even with me holding PH.

[John 3rd]

So the DAMNED Yorktown DID make it!!?? Cannot believe that ship survived...got to love US Damage Control!

The value to of taking these bases is without question. The real point, from the Japanese point-of-view, is how much does one invest with them? Do you use SNLF and lite garrision units plus small BF for aircraft or do you make them the FRONT LINE?

People talk about the Japanese over-extending themselves. This is a real, valid point but one could argue that from the moment they started the war, they were over-extended. If I make the Americans start 1500 miles further east or south, then I should have to corresponding bonus to strengthen my inner lines and make it much more costlier to take them. Right?

In my game with Moses, we have fought each other to a very bloody stalemate. I have taken more territory but have been semi-crippled in the process. It is a crazy situation.

I do not intend to repeat that in this campaign. Wherever the 'decisive battle' occurs, it will be of MY choosing and conducted with as much firepower as I can bring.

[moses]

And in real life holding and supplying all those bases would have been much more difficult. As Japan I never really feel much constrained by logistics. There always seems to be plenty of supply and ships to do whatever I want.