J1N1-S with radar

[FeurerKrieg]

I finally got around to messing with my thoughts on this night fighter again. I have run some trials over the past couple days using J1N1-S defending against B-24J's in the tutorial scenarion. The bombers flying from Sala-whatever it is, and bombing Yap. All of these actions at night of course.

The J1N1-S were swapped out with J1N1-Sr (per my suggestion in the first CHS 1.07 thread) which are equipped with FD-2 Radar (Pen 0, effect 20, range 15, aircraft radar).

In small engagements(one unit defending against one or two units), I could not show any statsitcally significant difference. At the same altitude or different altitudes, usually the same percentage of engaging J1N1's "fired" (ie - combat animation says they fire). In general that percentage was about 3-5% when altitude was 5000 feet apart, and around 6-7% when altitude was set the same as the bombers. Certainly the radar equipped planes did no worse than their counterparts, but those trials didn't 'prove' anything regarding the effectiveness of air intercept radar in the game.

However, when I did larger groups, (3 groups of B-24's versus 3 groups of J1N1's) the results seemed to indicate better performance for the radar equipped planes. Non-radar planes seemed to fire at a rate of around 5-7% of the engaging aircraft. However, the radar equipped planes fired quite a bit more, around 18% of the time. The most extreme trial I had was by radar equipped J1N1's. It was 50 B-24Js versus 55 J1N1-Sr. Of the 55 J1N1, 12 of them fired, one even destroyed a B-24J.

In conclusion, the addition of the radar units certainly does not create an uber-night fighter, it gives some hope of defense against night bombing runs, and gets us closer to what was historically available (and used) by late war Japanses air units.

If this doesn't get included in the CHS/Nik/Pry megamod, then I'll certainly add it to my own version of CHS or said megamod if it gets completed.

My next testing chore will be on the Type 5 Radar sets as they funciton in Base Forces, to see what effect they have on CAP. I also want to review the P-61 Black Widow to make sure they are accurately modeled. Funny... I did a report in 4th grade on the P-61, guess I should have known then what I would be doing when I got older. [8|]

[TheElf]

F.K.,
This is a fix that is sorely needed. Talk about an ugly baby that no one wants. I don't even remember the last time anyone cared to broach the subject. It is a whole other campaign that could be a feature of this game, yet it is hidden away like some red-headed step-child.

I say great. I'd like to see a bit more from 55 nightfighter vs. 50 Libs, not alot, but a little. If giving radar to platforms that historically didn't have them, solves the problem, then I say the end justifies the means. Maybe insted of calling it radar the device could be called "Night Fighter Training"?

What happens if you tweak the Radar to --Pen 0, Effect. 30, range 25?

I'd hate to see this highly realistic and detailed P-61 planetop I did go unused! I mean look at it...

[FeurerKrieg]

ORIGINAL: TheElf
If giving radar to platforms that historically didn't have them, solves the problem, then I say the end justifies the means. Maybe insted of calling it radar the device could be called "Night Fighter Training"?

If you mean going beyond the J1N1 with radars then perhaps. But if you were refering to the J1N1 not having radar, a few sources on the net mention that many of the operational J1N1's did have radar installed. And the estimated number of FD-2 radar sets built by Japan was enough to equip about 5 Sentais.

Here is a quote from http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/b ... j1n1s.html

Most of the Gekkos were fitted with airborne interception radar with external antenna attached to the nose, while a few carried a small searchlight in the nose. Those machines not fitted with radar or a searchlight were often fitted with a nose-mounted fixed forward-firing 20-mm Type 99 Model 2 cannon.

The Gekko enjoyed considerable success during its early operational career, and was particularly effective against slow-flying B-24s.

My original suggestion was to create an additional plane, the J1N1-Sr timed to be available around the same time Japanese air intercept radar was historically being put into service and have the last 5 or 6 J1N1-S units come into the game as -Sr units instead. The earlier units could then be upgraded to Sr once the pools got large enough. The details can be found in that other CHS thread, the first one askin for suggestion for 1.07.

I was considering bumping the effectiveness of the radar to 25 also. I would expect these fellas to do even better against things slower than the B-24s. At 300 mph the B-24 can go almost as fast as the J1N1.

In any case, I think it would be a nice addition since it certainly would not be enough to stop the Allied juggernaut in 1944, but would add some flavor to the night air war.

[Sardaukar]

Good stuff !! I did dig up some info pages for revision of submarine radars and added the links. Especially info about Dutch subs with radars is hard to come by.

[el cid again]

The J1N1-S would use a Type 2 AI radar. It has an effectiveness of 40 and a range of 2. It is available from 4207. It should be device type 09 - aircraft radar.

[FeurerKrieg]

Is that a device that is already in the DB? If so, then I suppose it is better than not having a radar at all, so your suggestion sounds good to me.

If slots allow, though, I'd add the FD-2.

[el cid again]

Is that a device that is already in the DB? If so, then I suppose it is better than not having a radar at all, so your suggestion sounds good to me.

If slots allow, though, I'd add the FD-2.

It is in MY device file, which I have in two forms:

Modified stock Scenario 15 and
Modified CHS Scenario 155.

I can produce a variation in any scenario anyone wants. And I can give you one with JUST this one device if you want.

Japanese Devices for Aircraft (CHS Mod)

Line Device Name Avail Pool Notes

197 MXY7 Okha 11 03/45 0 Load Cost 4718 Note 3
237 Mitsubishi (Ha-1) 12/41 500 200-800 hp (550 nominal)
238 Nakajima (Ha-5) 12/41 400 800-1000 hp (900 nominal)
239 Hitachi (Ha-35) 12/41 300 1000-1200 hp (1100 nominal)
240 Kawasaki (Ha-41) 12/41 200 1200-1400 hp (1300 nominal)
241 Iskawajima (Ha-101) 12/41 150 1400-1600 hp (1500 nominal)
242 Mansyu (Ha-45) 12/41 100 1600-1700 hp (1650 nominal)
243 Aichi (Ha-32) 12/41 50 1700-1900 hp (1800 nominal)
244 Nissan (Ha-104) 01/44 0 1900-2100 hp (2000 nominal)
245 Kokusa (Ha-43) 04/44 0 2100-2300 hp (2200 nominal)
246 Toyoda (Ha-44) 07/44 0 2300-2500 hp (2400 nominal)
247 Mark 6 Nav Radar 07/44 0 Effect = 50 (Surface Search)
248 Type 2 AI Radar 07/43 0 Effect = 40, Range = 2
249 Type 3 AI Radar 07/44 0 Effect = 50, Range = 4
311 14 inch CD Gun 12/41 0 Probably an error Note 1
312 Sound Detector (J) 12/41 0 Improperly placed. Note 2.
142 Ne-20 Jet Engine 08/45 0 Factory Device Note 4.


Note 1: Device 466 is the Coast Defense gun used by Corregedor. It is almost identical
with device 311 (range differs by 1). 311 is a Japanese slot – so it should NOT
be used for an Allied device – and there are NO Japanese 14 inch CD guns!
Note 2: The Manual says Japanese device slots are 139, 237 & 255-314. But THIS
device is NOT in a Japanese slot! So I moved it to unused slot 312.
Note 3: IOC historical (Francillon). Load cost was wrong (it was warhead weight).
This device is NOT in a Japanese slot, but will NOT work if it IS in a Japanese
slot. It also is NOT in an aircraft ordnance slot, but it DOES work!
Note 4: This is neither a Japanese slot nor an aircraft engine slot. But if placed in a
Japanese slot, it does NOT work! In this slot, it DOES work, although it will
not be produced in an aircraft engine plant. It gives us control of production date.