Alternative Barbarossa plans

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Silvanski
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RE: Alternative Barbarossa plans

Post by Silvanski »

OK here's the general outline for my 1942 summer campaign.
Some changes have been made since my previous post (3Pz will start from the outset)
Operations will start in 2-3 weeks time.

To follow the German's love for colors "Fall Weiss, Gelb, Blau" etc I've chosen Operation Rainbow[:D] , which will be a two-legged affair...

Phase 1 will be aimed at securing the Southern flank by capturing Rostov and Stalingrad and the immediate hinterland of these two cities.

3Pz and 2Pz will have the important task to encircle and destroy Soviet units between Tula and Voronezh.
A move towards Saratov will be also be made to act as a jumping board towards Kazan and/or Gorki.

Phase 2 will see the advance of 4Pz and the 2nd (which has been receiving panzercorps). They will attempt to bypass Moscow and link up further East with 2Pz and 3Pz coming from the Southwest, for the final drive to Gorki.

In the North the Finns will make a limited advance in order to cause a diversion. (Mannerheim agreed to do this during a good lunch with officers from OKH[:D])
16, 18 and AG North (directly commanding a few infantry corps) won't do much more than holding their ground, but without being bound to any "no retreat" order.

I know I'll have to stick to the objectives I've set although some alterations will have to be made in the field as the operation gets underway.
Therefore phase 2 as shown is not the definitve plan.

Suggestions and comments are welcome[8D]

Phase 1 ________ Phase 2 _ _ _ _ _

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RE: Alternative Barbarossa plans

Post by Silvanski »

Operation Rainbow started on June 21 1942.
The result of the continued strategic bombing campaign saw the Soviet oil production slump to 94. Their heavy industry and various weapons factories have seen some disruption as well.

On the battlefront Rostov was found to be abandoned [X(]
The map shows the extent of the Axis advance by July 26 1942.
2Pz and 3Pz are forcing their way North. Contrary to the original plan 3Pz advanced south of Tula. The pincer movement in co-operation with 2Pz was successful and saw the destruction of 4 Soviet corps and shattering of two Fronts.
Gorki is within reach but time is of the essence as the Soviets are starting to bring in more manpower and the panzers need to get fresh supplies.

Stalingrad is heavily defended but won't be able to hold out long (I hope[:D])

In the North the Finnish troops made limited (unopposed) advances.
4Pz, 9 and 2 carried out limited operations in order to straighten -and thereby shorten- the central frontline. For that same reason 18 was ordered to pull back a bit.

The limited counterattacks of the Red Army seem to be mainly targetted towards Axis flanks, which saw the shattering of the two Italian corps brought in to fill some gaps... great allies duh... [>:]

Now the operations of 11 have come to a successful conclusion, resources can be sent to 4Pz in order to advance towards Rzhev and (hopefully) bypass the main Soviet defences around Moscow.

The chances of winning the war in 1942 look good for the Axis but I remain on my guard for any Soviet counterattack, especially in the South.


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RE: Alternative Barbarossa plans

Post by Silvanski »

The battles have been hard but the war has been won.
On December 6 1942 the Soviet AI threw in the towel.
It shows that a Southern strategy in 1941 combined with an intense strategic bombing campaign is workable.

After a Soviet counterattack towards Rzhev, Velikiye Luki and Pskov I decided to let 4Pz (3 Pz corps and 1 supporting Inf corps) undertake a mad dash from Moscow towards Vologda and cut the Vologda-Tikhvin-Leningrad railway before the winter blizzards would begin.
This sealed victory for the Axis as the whole dangerous northern Soviet sector fell without supply and their frontline began to crumble.

Earlier the Moscow hexes were surrounded and subsequently taken all three in one turn.
3 Pz 4Pz 2 and 4 were the heroes of this battle.

Then, units of 2Pz and 3 Pz captured the Gorki-Moscow railroad and 1Pz was succesful in securing Stalingrad and assisting 17 in capturing Saratov.

A combined effort by 11 and 3 Ro and 4 Ro secured Maikop.

The map shows the frontline on Dec 6 1942.
Red dots with blue represent isolated Soviet units and shows where they attempted counterattacks. Blue dots with red are isolated Axis units.

Some figures...

................pop.....oil.....res

Total Axis: 302 152 172
Total Soviet: 311 64 60
Total 613 216 232
-------
Losses after Nov 29 1942 turn.
Axis 47353 SQ - 8292 AFV - 16689 Guns - 15587 AIR
Soviet 106058 SQ - 15541 AFV - 37269 Guns - 33357 AIR
-------
Axis on Dec 6 1942
total number of frontline aircraft: 6799
total number of ready aircraft: 5796 (85 %)
total number of damaged aircraft: 1003
average experience: 74 %

Number of divisions on map: 275
average experience: 85 %

Number of armor/arty units on map: 297
average experience: 83 %

Soviet Dec 6 1942
total number of frontline aircraft: 772
total number of ready aircraft: 537 (69 %)
total number of damaged aircraft: 235
average experience: 65 %

Number of divisions on map: 355
average experience: 60 %

Number of armor/arty units on map: 230
average experience: 62 %

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RE: Alternative Barbarossa plans

Post by Morphy »

Silvanski, why did 18th army withdrew on May 26th?

Wouldn't it be better to put one strong unit there, support with Luftwaffe and get to the Baltic Sea? Then you would have cut off some Soviet units, you would have shortened frontline (that was the reason you withdrew). Units relieved there (in my humble opinion) should have been used to attack toward Lovat' and Volhov. After reaching the rivers, depending on situation you could have stopped and prepare good defensive positions relieving some units or you could have tried to cross Volkhov, break Leningrad supply lines and crush Soviet forces in the city.
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RE: Alternative Barbarossa plans

Post by Silvanski »

These are good arguments Morphy.
But I was so occupied with the situation in the South that Leningrad wasn't in the equation anymore... I wanted to avoid sending too many units North.
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RE: Alternative Barbarossa plans

Post by Morphy »

If you had done that maneuver than you would have had more relieved units to use in south...
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RE: Alternative Barbarossa plans

Post by Silvanski »

Taking care of Leningrad first, dig in and then handle things in the South you mean?
Hmm... gonna try that plan.[;)]
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RE: Alternative Barbarossa plans

Post by Morphy »

ORIGINAL: Silvanski

Taking care of Leningrad first, dig in and then handle things in the South you mean?
Hmm... gonna try that plan.[;)]

Not really. I meant the best way to shorten a frontline is to surround and destroy all enemy bulges. The bulge created in north was an excellent situation how to defeat the enemy and relieve some units.

An offensive against Leningrad could be a by-product, so to say, since usually after a defeat your enemy has a weak front line, fragile to attacks. And there is one more thing: after a defeat enemy's units are not fortified...
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RE: Alternative Barbarossa plans

Post by Morphy »

Afterthought:

What I proposed was a defensive maneuver, not an offensive one. It could be turned into an offensive one if there had been a favourable situation.
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RE: Alternative Barbarossa plans

Post by SganAluf »

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa


I have tried these options and Plan Otto works in WIR, admittedly against the AI.


Do you have still, by chance, the map for WIR which displays the starting position for Plan Otto (perharps, some save from the beginning of the game ) ?
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RE: Alternative Barbarossa plans

Post by Rasputitsa »

I can't claim that what I have used is a historical scenario that matches 'Plan Otto'. The Plan for the assault on Russia changed several times until it became 'Barbarossa' and I don't know if the earlier planning was ever detailed enough to be the basis of a WIR scenario. However, 'Plan Otto' seemed to have a more even distribution of forces between Army Group Centre and Army Group South. It is obvious that the Prypiat Marshes would shelter some Soviet forces from direct attack and that they could then attack the flanks of the German advance. In Barbarossa, Army Group Centre was ordered to detach 2nd Panzer Group/Armee to help Army Group South deal with Russian forces around Kiev. This required the diversion of significant armoured forces away from the direct route to Moscow, with a further delay whilst this force repositioned North again for 'Operation Typhoon'. Army Group South was initially given only one Panzer Group/Armee, fighting single handed. However, with two Panzer Groups you can develop true encircling manouevres and the Southern wing is powerful enough to take care of Russian forces threatening the flanks of Centre, whilst constantly moving forward on the Moscow direction. All I did at set-up was side-step the Panzer Groups southwards, two for South, two for Centre, with independent Panzer Korps to support Army Group North and Motorised and Cavalry Korps to support the flank moving out of Rumania (forces which could have been there, after the campaign in the Balkans). Army Group North is weaker in armoured units, but when Moscow falls Leningrad is lost. This looks like the broad intentions of 'Plan Otto', but I have no detail to confirm it. I will look for a suitable 'Game Save', but it may not be for WIR 3.3, maybe earlier version. Also I have since introduced railways by-passing Moscow to the North, which appear on some historical maps, so that Leningrad does not fall so easily when Moscow is lost. [:)]
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