B-29 : The fairy princess of 1945

[Feinder]

I'm playing Oliver in a Campaign '45 scenario.

I AM JAPAN.

It is the "stock" '45 scenario. So most of my fighter squadrons started at about 2/3 strength, and I clicked endlessly on the "get pilot" button when they started drawing planes. The average exp of my Zero squadrons is about 40 - 45 (so they basically suck). This is a '45 start, so I don't have the benefit of a training program or somehow managing to conserve a core of pilots for 4 years (for those of you who -can- do it, I commend you, I don't see how you do it).

I AM JAPAN.

So I'm just laying the groundwork here. I'm flying Zekes in '45, with (relatively) crappy pilots.

DID I MENTION, I AM JAPAN?

Along comes my opponent Oliver, with his B-29s from Saipan, Guam, or whichever base he's using from that little chain. We're not talking about 20 or 30 B-29s. We're talking darken the skies with clouds of them, as in multiple 100+ plane raids in a day. And that DOESN'T count the scores of B-24s attacking everywhere else on the map (but I digress). US Army pilots don't suck in 1945. They start at like 60 or 65 exp (top of my head). And the B-29 is a BEAST. Right...?

(* BUZZZZZER! *)

My suck-Zekes shot down 37 of them yesterday (with the loss of about 14 Zekes). Yes, he -is- flying a long way. But that would be a very historical base from which they would be flying from. He does lose some from ops losses. But even then these are mostly planes destroyed OVER TARGET. These aren't the late appearing messages, "PO Sake Swigger is credited for kill #2", which denotes a plane damaged in air-to-air, but then crashes on landing (air-to-air credit). Only 1 or 2 of those. These are B-29s that got pasted over the target. Oh, and these are NOT aces. Most of my teenage Kamikaze-wannabe pilots are getting their 1st and 2nd kills. And FWIW, I actually keep forgetting to actually station a sqdn there, so these are an "area intercept" that are actually fighters being scrambled from Tokyo next door.

OH, AND I'M JAPAN.

Yes, I have about 130 Zekes next door. Historically, B-29s probably never saw more than 50 come up to intercept a given raid (I really have no idea). But still, I doubt the US ever lost more than 30 B-29s in a given week, let alone a single day. Frankly, he should be kicking my butt with 400 B-29s showing up over Japan. Instead, I've downed about 60 of the pathetic things, in about a week. Yesterday, he got zero stratigic hits from from all those bombers. The planes that didn't get shot down, were damaged, and only about 15 actually made runs. I'm almost exicited to watch that single sqdn of 12x B-29s from NBS show up over Tokyo. I'm thinking shooting down the B-29s carrying the Nukes would be amusing to say the least.

YEP, I'M STILL JAPAN. THIS ISN'T A ALLIED FAN-BOY WHINE ABOUT LBA BEING NERFED. THIS IS A JAPANESE OPPONENT SAYING THAT THE B-29 IS NERFED.

Something is dreadfully wrong with the B-29 if I'm shooting them down in droves. Who's afraid of the fairy princess? Not I.

-F-

[Nikademus]

What side are you playing?

[Brady]

Think it was...... Japan?

[jwilkerson]

Sounds like the same Uber air battle problem we've been talkin' about for months ...

Tell your opponent to fly smaller strikes and tell yourself to intercept with smaller numbers of fighters - those are the stated fixes !

( or maybe try Nik's mod - though not sure he can really "fix" Uber air battle problem - just try to mitigate same )

[Dereck]

His opponent SHOULD be able to fly historical missions -- that's what people here always "strive" for isn't it? to make this game historical? -- and bomb Japan into oblivion.

In my game I'm playing I have the problem of not being able to do ANY damage to Japan after bombing daily for three months.

I put posts a while back on day-to-day B-29 missions from Saipan over Japan. There were days when 200-300+ bombers bombed over Japan and the most B-29s ever lost were something like 14. Most days there were NO B-29s lost or only 1 or 2.

I've stated in a couple previous threads about strategic bombing that the B-29 has been nerfed to the point of being useless to the allied player.

[LargeSlowTarget]

Found here:

During the night of 25-26 May, 464 B-29's dispatched from the XXI BC attack Tokyo urban areas immediately south of the Imperial Palace and just north of that bombed on 23-24 May with 3262 tons of incendiary bombs which destroyed financial, commercial and governmental districts as well as factories and homes; six B-29's attack other targets. The AAF claims 19 Japanese fighters. Twenty-six B-29's are lost (the largest loss of B-29's and crews in a single day).

This site gives detailed info on B-29s losses. Other highs were 17 and 14 bombers lost, but in most cases the losses were much lower.

[Dereck]

http://www.xmission.com/~tmathews/b29/5 ... -4411.html

Day by day listing of B-29 missions and results from October 1944 through September 1945.

[Nikademus]

Havn't tested B-29's specifically, but have tested B-17's. I dont think Fiender would complain.

Did test B-29's vs. AA after Dereck posted his website search results.

[LargeSlowTarget]

ORIGINAL: dereck

http://www.xmission.com/~tmathews/b29/5 ... -4411.html

Day by day listing of B-29 missions and results from October 1944 through September 1945.

LOL, same site basically.

[kbad]

Faced with those losses to my B-29 force, I would switch to night bombing of cities. At least that would solve the problem of unescorted bombers facing fighters.

[Yamato hugger]

Forgive my failing memory, but werent most B-29 raids done at night? Think there was a reason?

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

What side are you playing?

LOL[:D]

[Feinder]

Forgive my failing memory, but werent most B-29 raids done at night? Think there was a reason?

Forgive my indulging your weak attempt at sarcasm but, obvsiouly they DID bomb at night. But enemy fighters were the least of the motives. See the above links, very few B-29s were lost air-to-air. While flying at night would also decrease the effectiveness of Flak, the main benefit of bombing at night was...

Because it was that much harder to organize firefighting efforts until morning. It greatly increased the collateral damage by making it that much harder to coordinate putting them out.

-F-

[m10bob]

My contribution to the B 29 thread.......[8D]

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/b ... 29-10.html

[Dereck]

ORIGINAL: kbad

Faced with those losses to my B-29 force, I would switch to night bombing of cities. At least that would solve the problem of unescorted bombers facing fighters.

kbad, please see this thread: tm.asp?m=972400

The B-29s have been nerfed so bad that you can't successfully bomb Japan with them at all. In three months of bombing Tokyo I still haven't dented it when it only took a week to historically burn it to the ground.

[Dereck]

I put all 331 (minus 5 that I couldn't find data for) B-29 missions flown from the Marianas into a spreadsheet and came up with this information (with an acknowledged margin of error of maybe 10% either way):

326 missions with information
- 26,509 B-29 sorties
- 327 B-29s lost to all causes (enemy action, accidents, etc)
- total loss rate of only 1.234% or about 1 B-29 per mission

[ADavidB]

All of you are ignoring the fact that Mike Wood DELIBERATELY reduced the abilities of Allied 4-engine bombers to bomb, reduced the ability of any bombers to hit targets at night, and increased the ability of Japanese fighters to attack bombers.

This is now the design of the game.

It would have been nice if Mike could have distinguished between bomber types, but he didn't.

It is up to us to now figure out how to play with the design.

I would have preferred a more historic design, but this is what we have.

Face it - no Allied player will be able to achieve historical desctruction levels of the Japanese cities in one or two nights as the US did in 1945 - the game is not designed to allow that.

An Allied player will need to develop a strategy that allow him to win on points, regardless of the historical accuracy or inaccuracy of that strategy.

Dave Baranyi

[Dereck]

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

All of you are ignoring the fact that Mike Wood DELIBERATELY reduced the abilities of Allied 4-engine bombers to bomb, reduced the ability of any bombers to hit targets at night, and increased the ability of Japanese fighters to attack bombers.

This is now the design of the game.

It would have been nice if Mike could have distinguished between bomber types, but he didn't.

It is up to us to now figure out how to play with the design.

I would have preferred a more historic design, but this is what we have.

Face it - no Allied player will be able to achieve historical desctruction levels of the Japanese cities in one or two nights as the US did in 1945 - the game is not designed to allow that.

An Allied player will need to develop a strategy that allow him to win on points, regardless of the historical accuracy or inaccuracy of that strategy.

Dave Baranyi

Yeah because people - mostly Jap fanboys - griped and complained until the allied were nerfed even more.

Matrix, you HAD a good game but after listening to all these Jap fan boys all you've done is turned this game into a one-sided fantasy game.

[kbad]

I have to agree, that once the B-29's get set up in numbers and in range of the major Japanese cities its should be game over in a very short time. Now you might have to wait for the brothers from New Mexico to end it.

[Cpt.Buckmaster]

ORIGINAL: dereck

Yeah because people - mostly Jap fanboys - griped and complained until the allied were nerfed even more.

Matrix, you HAD a good game but after listening to all these Jap fan boys all you've done is turned this game into a one-sided fantasy game.

Well, you might just be onto something there, smartypants ( [;)] )... but with good reason.

Any way you realistically slice it, the general outcome of the war was inevitable. Yamamoto knew this. The USN and the USAAF would become invincible (relatively speaking, of course) and it would only become a matter of ground combat to determine just how long the war would last (Atom bombs aside).

SO, put yourself in the shoes of a "Japanese Fanboy." Wouldn't it be nice to actually have a CHANCE to win? Things need to be adjusted in order for that to be possible. The whole 4-engined bomber thing is just one of the dozens (or hundreds if you ask some of the people around here! [:D] ) of things about this game that are completely historically inaccurate.

In real life, the Axis powers got completely pasted. Their cute little suckerpunch uncontested victories in 1939-1941 europe and the pacific were fun for them and all, but in the end their hemisphere-wide empires were systematically destroyed in a two or three year period.

SO, in order to make ANY WWII games fun for the "bad guys", there has to be a bunch of cheating... unless you design one that takes place in like Sept 1942 only.

[:)]