Gotta squash 'em all - a bug I just noticed

Skandranon · Post by **Skandranon** » Fri Jun 30, 2000 3:57 pm

We were aware of the bug where an immobile unit could turn to face a target if it reaction fired, and that has been addressed. However, I've found another bug that's similar and even more humorous. Did you know if you use the 'Z' key to bombard a hex in an immobile unit's line of sight, it will turn to face that hex? And by so doing, you can turn the unit 360 degrees, a couple of hex facings at a time. And here's the funny part - this includes forts, pillboxes, and bunkers! I thought it was very amusing in the scenario I just played (No Easy Place, I believe) to spin my pillboxes around and around in place. Well, the game did need to have the turreted fortification added to it anyway... *chuckle*

On another note, I'm wondering if this is a bug - I also found that vehicles moved into an entrenched hex did not become entrenched, only 'In Cover' after several turns. A reflection that vehicles are difficult to entrench on the fly, or just a mistake?

Oh yeah, and I'd still like to see turreted forts (the Germans used a lot of wrecked tank turrets like that...), ignoring the above cheat.

[This message has been edited by Skandranon (edited 06-30-2000).]

troopie · Post by **troopie** » Fri Jun 30, 2000 4:41 pm

I don't know if your vehicle entrenching matter is a bug or a feature. I don't know what type of vehicle it is. I do know vehicles are hard to entrench. If you don't have an engineer vehicle to help, you face hours of digging. That may be a feature.

I haven't seen bunkers and pillboxes rotate. Many had firing slits on all sides, so no one could sneak up behind them and apply the dynamite.

troopie

Pamwe Chete

Skandranon · Post by **Skandranon** » Fri Jun 30, 2000 4:50 pm

Well, try it and you'll see, bunkers can rotate if you use the 'Z' key to target a hex far to the left or right edge (but still in!) of their line of sight. I played with it for a while, yup, it works, even in v2.2. The reason it's never seen is it only works if it's a fortification/immobile vehicle and you use the 'Z' direct fire attack, AND it's at a target on the edge of line of sight. Reaction fire won't do it, and the AI won't use direct fire, so it's not surprising it hasn't been seen yet.

And true, I do think emplacement's line of sight and lack of turrets is pretty glaring in this. At least they're pretty tough to kill. But not to suppress... I was shocked to see my pillboxes routed from 50mm mortar fire. I guess it was pretty noisy in there.

And I agree, vehicles not being able to entrench on the fly might be a good thing, but I'm not sure if it's intentional. And it wasn't just one vehicle - it was a StugIIIf and several 251HT's. They were in cover after a few turns in an entrenched hex some infantry was in already, but that was no different than if they became in cover in some rough. However, infantry moving into the same hexes became entrenched quickly, like they should.

[This message has been edited by Skandranon (edited 06-30-2000).]

troopie · Post by **troopie** » Sat Jul 01, 2000 2:58 am

Tho' I haven't seen bunkers do what you describe, I'll accept what you say. As for vehicles being 'in cover' after a few turns; it is not difficult to cover an AC or APC in a few minutes. You just need some brush, nets, sandbags or other litter, and not to be shot at too badly. I've seen it done in fairly thin bushveld in under 10 minutes.

troopie

Pamwe Chete

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Sat Jul 01, 2000 3:11 am

Terms...semantics. Always a problem

"In cover"

We chose this phrase because it portrays better what the game does. Units do not entrench in the game. They can begin the battle entrenched.

"Entrenched" implies that some fancy work has been done on that location.

We did not want to convey that. Beginning the game in an "entrenchment," now THAT is entrenched. What happens during the battle is that units dig in, tanks seek some sort of ground cover, a slight rise, some heavy underbrush to break their silouhette (however you spell it

)

Within the time frame of SPWAW "in cover" is much more accurate and is NOT the same as a unit in an entrenchment.

So please understand by "in cover" that the unit is finding some temporary cover to at least partially protect it from attack.

So what you have is really three types of cover.

Fortifications...Serious protection, but you know that.
Entrenched...Improved positions, maybe some overhead cover, organized defensive position

In Cover...hasty defensive position, scraping out a hole with your helmet or an entrenching tool, hiding in some undergrowth or tall grass, etc.

Those are the only three I can think of. I hope this helps you understand what we mean by "in cover"

Wild Bill

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

Dean Robb · Post by **Dean Robb** » Sat Jul 01, 2000 3:55 am

Originally posted by Wild Bill:
Those are the only three I can think of. I hope this helps you understand what we mean by "in cover"

Pulling the sheets and blankets over your head??

ncpanther · Post by **ncpanther** » Sat Jul 01, 2000 5:44 am

Originally posted by Dean Robb:
Pulling the sheets and blankets over your head??

ROTFLMAO Dean Thats "COVERED UP"!!!!

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NC

Tankhead · Post by **Tankhead** » Sat Jul 01, 2000 6:03 am

A bit of subject but I see this is a BUG tread. Did anyone notice that up to V2.1 we could see what was loaded on are vehicles after installing V2.2 & V2.3 all it says now is loaded no more description is it just me or everybody, I was just wandering

Tankhead

crazyivan · Post by **crazyivan** » Sat Jul 01, 2000 7:20 am

same to me tank i have chosen a long campiagn and have picked guard tank units early 42 and also tank riders as troops no discription juat says load on the display bar ti worked in vs2.2

LONG LIVE MOTHER RUSSIA if you want to kick jeerys ares befor the tiger rears its head go for russia nothing can touch a kw1e

Reg · Post by **Reg** » Sat Jul 01, 2000 7:23 am

Originally posted by Tankhead:
A bit of subject but I see this is a BUG tread. Did anyone notice that up to V2.1 we could see what was loaded on are vehicles after installing V2.2 & V2.3 all it says now is loaded no more description is it just me or everybody, I was just wandering

Tankhead

The update file for version 2.2 explains that the loaded unit descriptions were overwriting other info on the screen and roster. Loaded unit descriptions are still available by right clicking on the carrying unit on the map.

Hope this helps.
Reg

victorhauser · Post by **victorhauser** » Sat Jul 01, 2000 8:07 am

As I recall, a motorized unit will only "re-entrench" if in defend mode when it occupies a fortified hex.

However, if command/control is turned off, I think "re-entrenching" is automatic the turn after occupying a fortified hex. I don't play with C/C turned off, so I'm not sure of that.

Arralen · Post by **Arralen** » Sat Jul 01, 2000 7:52 pm

Originally posted by Skandranon:
We were aware of the bug where an immobile unit could turn to face a target if it reaction fired, and that has been addressed. However, I've found another bug that's similar and even more humorous. Did you know if you use the 'Z' key to bombard a hex in an immobile unit's line of sight, it will turn to face that hex?

And in v2.1 there's still the immobilized vehicle turning bug, that allows turning the hull (!) of such vehicles by rightclicking on an enemy unit ...

Haven't had time to download and test this with v2.2 / v2.3, but from the readme I would think this still isn't addressed ?!

Next bug I experienced with v2.1 is with the Message Display - most message came and go according to the values in the preference screen (1,6 sec in this case), ut sometimes a message seems to "hang" and is displayed for 2..3 seconds - nothing serious, but annoying

I nearly forgot - in a WW2 Campaign Game (Ger vs. Pol) I got a "defend" stance first battle (did the Polskys EVER counterattack?).
Strangly not only my units got the "fortified" status at the beginnig, but the Polish units as well (prooved this with editor) .
Shouldn't this be "dug-in" at best for the attacker?

Arralen

[This message has been edited by Arralen (edited 07-01-2000).]

Reg · Post by **Reg** » Sun Jul 02, 2000 4:19 am

Another Bug: (only minor though)

I was playing Wild Bill's 'A Tragic Stand' scenario when I noticed something strange.

Unseen units must have been crashing through stone walls as snow background stone wall hexes in unobserved locations were being replaced with green background (breached) stone wall hexes.

A bit too much information there I think as you can track unobserved formations this way (not to mention the fast growing grass in the snow fields!!!).

For your info,
Reg

[This message has been edited by Reg (edited 07-01-2000).]

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Sun Jul 02, 2000 9:44 am

Some of these things will have to version 3 to be addressed! We are aware of them!

victorhauser · Post by **victorhauser** » Sun Jul 02, 2000 10:30 am

The "right-click on enemy to turn an immobilized unit" bug has been around since SP1 (long before SPWAW). Indeed, I remember playing in a variety of head-to-head games against unscrupulous players who used to "right click" on "empty" hexes in attempts to discover the locations of my units during the game (back in those days, if you did that and a hidden unit was present in the hex, then a fortification "data box" popped up). Thank goodness THAT has been fixed (previous to SPWAW).

I've verified the "Z-fire to turn a fortification" bug and this is a new one to me, although it may have been around for a long time, too. Since I almost never use forts, I never noticed it in other SP games. Doesn't mean it didn't exist back then, though.

There are several "bugs" regarding things happening to hidden enemy forces that seem to "unfog" the fog of war and limited intel aspects of the game (e.g., buildings getting rubbled as hidden AFVs crash into them, smoke signatures from hidden artillery, offest unit numbers in hexes revealing the presence of additional units in that hex even though they can't be seen, etc.). I've no doubt that the SPWAW staff is doing all they can (and more) to squash these bugs.

Dean Robb · Post by **Dean Robb** » Mon Jul 03, 2000 2:13 am

Originally posted by Reg:
Unseen units must have been crashing through stone walls as snow background stone wall hexes in unobserved locations were being replaced with green background (breached) stone wall hexes.

A bit too much information there I think as you can track unobserved formations this way (not to mention the fast growing grass in the snow fields!!!).
07-01-2000).]

Yeah, you sorta can track unspotted formations this way. All it really tells you is that something is over there and is heading in such-and-such a direction. I always just consider it extra intel - Joe Local running up and telling me that someone is rampaging through his wheat fields...

The cause of that, though, is that the map doesn't have a an "empty, snowy" hex graphic, I don't believe.

troopie · Post by **troopie** » Mon Jul 03, 2000 4:56 am

I don't regard smoke from on board guns as a bug. In my view, it stands for the info that my mortarmen and gunners are using for counterbattery fire. And it doesn't always mean enemy guns. Air strikes and your own arty can produce the same smoke, and you can waste arty rounds shooting at them. I look at as a feature. My own guns produce the same smoke, and that means I need to move them if I want to keep them.

troopie

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Pamwe Chete